RAW engines - 80cc? Designed in America?

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Bikeguy Joe

Bikeguy Joe

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Re: RAW the best?

Still, the mystery continues.....

I CAN say these engines were NOT DESIGNED IN AMERICA!!!!!!

That would be an outright lie, would it not?
 
Creative Engineering

Creative Engineering

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Re: RAW - 80cc? Designed in America?

No doubt!!!

If they "were" designed here, and made "there" under supervision, the quality would be ten-fold.

Most of the consumer products we use are made in China. Forced quality control by U.S. manufacturers makes the difference in China. Large U.S. corporations can easily make the Chinese factories conform to quality standards. The alternative for any given factory is...loose the work to a competitor who will comply.

Of course it would be best for manufacturing to happen here in the U.S.A., but that's another topic!

Jim
 
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xPosTech

xPosTech

The Old Master Motorized Bicycle Builder
Oct 23, 2008
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Creative Engineering said:
Dude,

I'm sorry if I created some sort of confusion.

I own a machine shop...I make the clutch actuators from raw stock.

I "DO NOT" buy and resell engine kits of any kind!

66cc, 80cc who knows? Maybe it's Hong Kong math?

I pulled mine apart and measured it accurately...The one I have is 69.3762cc, I bought it as an advertised 80cc.

I will say that the brochure scans that were posted the other day, on another thread, are the same as the brochure/installation guide I got with my engine kit from BGF.

Inside the front cover is a page that shows the specs for the 3 different engines 48cc, 60cc & 80cc.

For the 80cc it reads: 47mm bore X 40mm stroke = 80cm3 If you do the math it comes out to 69cc. The advertised bore and stroke are correct. Their math used to arrive at the cc value of 80 is not!

Jim
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I received the same brochure with my supposed to be 80 CC. I just pulled it out to take a look. I was gonna post that someone had edited the brochure. But it says as you do : 47mm X 40mm = 80cm³. It was the EPA (hah!) sticker that stated:


This engine is certified to operate on unleaded gasoline.
This engine conforms to U.S. EPA regulations for small non road engines.
EMISSIONS COMPLIANCE PERIOD: 50 HOURS
Engine Displacement: 65.9 cc
Date of Manufacture: 5/2008
Exhaust Emission Control: OC
Lubrication Requirements: JASO FC

Notice that the displacement is factual. (Emphasis is mine) I thought I saw this in the brochure but 'twas on the sticker on the magneto cover (which I lifted with oil). I thought I saved the sticker but now I can't find it. (Like half of my stuff.) Cheap Xerox copy with lick'em stick'em glue. It was not the legit embossed foil sticker you see on genuine certified engines.

Oh for some good ol' down home truth-in-advertising! :p

Ted
 
thatsdax

thatsdax

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From my Research, the original Design for these engines came from Eastern Europe. Asia copies many designs out of Europe. You can get some Awesome KTM Copies out of Asia. As for originality.. I do not think so. For Example, If you look at the 60's twin engines from Kawasaki, you can clearly see they are British copies. The Asians have some original designs. But they have a lot of copies as well. A lot. And these little 2 stroke engines are very similar to the Eastern European designs from the late 50's and early 60's. If you can find a Russian bicycle engine, you will see they are very similar and I am sure was the basis for the current Asian design. They are getting better and better every year. With the dollar getting stronger, the price should remain the same while quality continues to go up. I have to admit.. These little 2 strokes are a blast !!! Enjoy the ride....
 
Egor

Egor

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Jan 30, 2008
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I have an early Dax, it is still the best running engine. I heard someone say their Dax was the smoothest, and yes that is the most important aspect of one of these little engines. If the engine shakes it self to pieces (and the bike with it), the engine will not last. I would have never thought that there would be so much difference in these little motors, and believe me it is not just the CC's. I have the Dax in the Green Hornet and I need to move it over to my best most beloved Schwinn. (my avatar) The engine in the Schwinn is from Kings, it is a good engine but not as smooth, and gears scream loud. I bought a Revolution bottom end and was going to use a top end I have done a lot of porting on, but the block had a short rod (OH NO) well I had bought a top end from Kings on a Ebay sale, and when I checked, it had a lower piston pin location (Saved) so be careful if you buy extra parts. I'm with Duane these 2 strokes are a blast, I have a Whizzer and I love it, but I did not build it, it is heavy but I love the sound. On my latest rides I lend the Whizzer to a friend and I ride my Happy Time bike. LOL. Have fun, Dave
 
Retmachinist

Retmachinist

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Oct 21, 2008
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Re: RAW the best?

Creative Engineering said:
Yes...Yes, In the shop you can make proper parts that drastically improve these kits.

So far I've had four kits...one from Bike-to-moped, (Chris in Kalamazoo), One from BGF, and two unknown...we bought them from an end-user that didn't need them.

I have no idea which Chinese factories any of these came from. Further more I really don't care.

The engine kit from Chris, (Bike-to-moped), worked great!

I disassembled the BGF engine for analysis...so I have yet to run it.

The Bike-to-moped kit was installed with motor mounts we machined in the shop...And of course the clutch actuator. A few custom parts make all the difference in the world!

I've never cared what comes in the door as far as a kit, because I can make any part of it that looks a bit flaky.

Jim
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Jim I like to read your Quote's, Since we have both been in the same occupation. I was a machinist for over 35 years for two different companies and have required some nice machines and alot of tooling over the years. Now I have a really nice SMALL shop to make about anything I need for these MB kits. It is a blast making things for myself for a change. I have been having alot of fun with this winter build. I was originally going to build it to sell after the contest, but I am afraid it is going to be a keeper. Have to sell one of my other ones.
John
 
BrettMavriK

BrettMavriK

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Hey there,

I have to agree on the "engine improvement" aspect.
That is in the works and I can't wait.......
Jim at Creative Engineering is in the process of building new internals for these motors. Jim, didn't you say a balanced billet crank shaft and counterweights, maybe a billet piston head and billet head casing? Then high speed roller bearings and such. He says the motors will rev past 10,000 rpm's and make more than twice the horsepower. Now, I'm not really a speed junkie, but with the gear calculations (not counting wind resistance and drag), that's gonna' mean a 65-75mph bike with proper gearing. I have no plans to go that fast, BUT with the gearing reworked, that's gonna' mean superfast 0-50 mph times, wheelies and burnouts. I'm all for that....not to mention increased reliability.

POWER - Better To Have And Not Need, Than To Need And Not Have......

'BrettMavriK
 
Retmachinist

Retmachinist

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I think one thing people forget is how cheap we are getting these kits. Sure they can be made alot better, and could also be made in this country but how much are people willing to spend? If people want them to be perfect, they are going to get really expensive. Then you just as well buy a motorcycle.
 
misteright1_99

misteright1_99

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Retmachinist said:
I think one thing people forget is how cheap we are getting these kits. Sure they can be made alot better, and could also be made in this country but how much are people willing to spend? If people want them to be perfect, they are going to get really expensive. Then you just as well buy a motorcycle.
Click to expand...
I agree, for a few hundred dollars more you could buy a Italian Morini engine, on the other hand, I have MB's and motorcycles, and enjoy the MB MUCH more........

But I am getting off topic, sorry......
 
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BrettMavriK

BrettMavriK

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---What if you could buy a complete engine kit (tank, throttle, etc.) that looks like it was completely machined from Billet Aluminum (except for the block...but all covers, head, etc.), it came with an improved Mikuni Carburetor , perfectly tuned expansion muffler, and a billet clutch actuator upgrade. The kit engine would have the ability of 10,000 + r.p.m. and more than Twice the Horsepower because of a Billet Crank, Counterweights, Piston Head, and Head Casing along with High Speed Precision Bearings. The motor would out live any other HT motor on the market by a long shot.

Would that be worth $450........?

People pay Chris Hill $350 and all he does is change the bearings and do some mild porting so I am told.....


These High Revolution Engines are indeed on their way......

'BrettMavriK






misteright1_99 said:
I agree, for a few hundred dollars more you could buy a Italian Morini engine, on the other hand, I have MB's and motorcycles, and enjoy the MB MUCH more........

But I am getting off topic, sorry......
Click to expand...
 
Bikeguy Joe

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
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up north now
I would say that would take half the fun away from the cheap chinese in frame engine kits.

The whole aspect of "150 dollars and a little tweaking" is what makes these things so popular.

"450 dollars and a bike that is too damned fast for anyone in their right mind" may have a niche market, but they won't sell like chinese hotcakes.
 
Bikeguy Joe

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
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up north now
Back OT- from elsewhere on this forum-

"when i feed the chain trough the sprocket the chain would rub and get stuck because the links were rubbing on the side wall of the motor(the side were the sprocket comes out of) and also there is alot of play on the clutch! i can push the clutch all the way in by hand and wont dis-ingage... and the sprocket wont turn freely...that were im stuck at.
the motor did not come with a diagram, and if it helps its a raw."

:ride:
 
BrettMavriK

BrettMavriK

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You make an excellent point, Joe, and that is why this is all so popular.
These motorized bikes have a mystique all their own. They are the frugal, non-mainstream alternative and a comparatively inexpensive mode of motor transportation. They "buck the system" so to speak, by legislation and regulation. To me, they are cooler than a motorcycle. To own one, build one, tweak one, and ride one is a rewarding journey of a quite nifty hobby...

But for some, the journey is pushing the limits of performance, creativity, and style. To be unique and stand out from the norm of "sticking with stock". Mine is that such journey. I'm building custom framed stretched choppers with 5 speeds, full suspensions, disc brakes, l.e.d. Headlights turn signals, brake & tail lights all powered from the engine, etc., and I plan to sell them to anyone who would want one. What comes from my mind and hands has got to be "bar none". I want the baddest and the trickest, sickest bike made, and I will continue to get even sicker, tricker, and badder.
Will I sell them like Chinese Hot Cakes like everyone on ebay slapping a motor on a Cranbrook Cruiser with stock muffler, carb, and one speed???

Nope......But my "hot cake" will be one of the best ones you've ever tasted.

'BrettMavriK
 
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Retmachinist

Retmachinist

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Oct 21, 2008
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BrettMavriK said:
You make an excellent point, Joe, and that is why this is all so popular.
These motorized bikes have a mystique all their own. They are the frugal, non-mainstream alternative and a comparatively inexpensive mode of motor transportation. They "buck the system" so to speak, by legislation and regulation. To me, they are cooler than a motorcycle. To own one, build one, tweak one, and ride one is a rewarding journey of a quite nifty hobby...

But for some, the journey is pushing the limits of performance, creativity, and style. To be unique and stand out from the norm of "sticking with stock". Mine is that such journey. I'm building custom framed stretched choppers with 5 speeds, full suspensions, disc brakes, l.e.d. Headlights turn signals, brake & tail lights all powered from the engine, etc., and I plan to sell them to anyone who would want one. What comes from my mind and hands has got to be "bar none". I want the baddest and the trickest, sickest bike made, and I will continue to get even sicker, tricker, and badder.
Will I sell them like Chinese Hot Cakes like everyone on ebay slapping a motor on a Cranbrook Cruiser with stock muffler, carb, and one speed???

Nope......But my "hot cake" will be one of the best ones you've ever tasted.

'BrettMavriK
Click to expand...
If I wanted that I would just start from scratch, and build a motorcycle. I just want to spend a few hundred bucks, machine alot of parts and end up with a MB.
 
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