New Muffler, muffled power

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Echotraveler

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Aug 25, 2008
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hello friends,

Just got my new muffler, it looks nice, it's 1" smaller than the stock one i had.

Put it on, and i go to enjoy, i knew some adjustments were to be made because i tuned the carb for my damaged (open) muffler...it sounded too loud but it had real acceleration...

presently the carb needle is 1 slot lower than stock

just filled the tank with a between 20:1 and 24:1 (eyeballed it) its smoking more than before.

the motor start but stall, yet when you iddle it right after you start it stays iddle and after 1 or 2 minutes dies...

the acceleration is pretty bad, vibrates a lot on low rpm's and has to be throttled to the max to get going in a normal fashion. it feels as if it didnt have force to deal with the chain, but when i accelerate on iddle the motor responds resonably normal....

got the spar out and its being fouled by the oil.

the carb seems sealed and gets super cold from the ventury effect, fridge cold! looks cool a lot of condensation in the whole intake and the carb bowl........when i opened the carb i sort of found a white substance on the carb needle slots, looked like greese, but i didn't put greese there! can that be HYDRATES? also some oil is spillin out but im not sure from were......

what else!? oh yes, the right side motor cover was taken off, because i heard a mechanical sound i didnt notice before...upon inspection the cover had black powder residue...i think its the clutch breaking in...hope nothing out the ussual.

Plz help me diagnose this, i dont wanto to force this little motor......

cheers,

Arturo
 

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Echotraveler

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Aug 25, 2008
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am i going overboard?!


ill adjust the clutch and carry on...maybe i was pushing the little engine a lot....im still worried about the moto vibrating so much for initial accel. i have no explanation..it didnt do this before.....
 

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
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your new exhaust might be causing your poor performance is the exhaust gasket opening not covering up some of the exhaust port? Is the muffler a cat one? It could be restricted inside too much.
The white grease is hydrates forming on the carbs needle.
Sounds to me like your very oil rich with the oil fowled plug. Mix your gas/oil ratio accurately.
Put your needle clip at the second slot form the fat end for stock settings
are you gaping your spark plug at about 0.025 and if your using a light use 0.020.
spark plug wire ends good and tight in the cdi and the spark plug boot.
The cover with the black dust if its the clutch cover there will be some dust and crud there.
the mags cover if you have black dust then the mag rotor is rubbing on the cranks seal that is not good need to set the seal in a tiny bit if its not damaged/leaking same on the other side the seal under the small gear can rub the crank seal and cause the same problem just like an intake leak.
I think you might want to drain out the gas from the tank. start with fresh regular gas and 2-stroke oil and mix the gas and oil accurately for 32 to 1 mix use 4oz oil to 1 gallon of gas. I use the 32 to 1 on all my bikes unless I use a syn. oil then I don't go over 40 to 1.
I found that when they vibrate a lot it is a loose motor mount or a broke one.
Norman
 

Echotraveler

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Aug 25, 2008
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the muffler is like the stock one but the muffler cover is welded in place, ill take a pic.
the exhaust gasket is a bit smaller than the motor exhaus, but it sounds sealed.

i never thought i could have hydrates, does this mean my intake tube is a RACING intake tube?

yeah i have to learn about my mix...such an important thing, neglected!

you want me to put it back on the stock? right now its on the secont slot, one lower than stock one higher then the bottom slot.

gappin the spark plug? i thought i just needed to screw it in with my fingers...the boot seems to fit fine.

the one cover with dust was the bicycle chain side cover... ill take a pic when i get home. i dont reall understand very well this part.

ill be sure to change the gas today.

thanx for the reply Norman


last night i poored 1.7 liter into the tank and put around 2 oz of oil......i guess thats too much..i need something to measure...
 

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
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any restriction in the exhaust flow will cause a power reduction. your new exhaust might not be the right one to use.
no your humidity is high and I think you have an extra long homemade intake tract both can cause the carb ice(hydrates) you can call it a racing intake if you want to its not stock more of a custom intake.:D
you need to measure accurately your fuel mix and shake it up good before use.
spark plug gap is very important too much gap the plug will not fire too little and the plug will fowl or get poo bridged between the center electrode and the ground electrode use a wire gauge if you have one and a regular feeler gauge if you don't bend only the ground electrode to gap it correctly be gentle as well being precise is good for good operations of any machine.

the dust on the chain side if its the chain cover, will get nasty from the grease and air born dust.
The cover with the ignitions mag rotor and coil should not have dust or black stuff in there its a sign of the mags rotor rubbing on the cranks seal you will need to correct that or the seal will be destroyed when that happens the engine will not run correctly and can destroy itself due to a air leak. to fix the rubbing seal take off the mag rotor and gently seat the seal in farther you will have to use a socket that will be almost the outer dia of the seal and very gently tap the seal in so it will not rub on the mag rotor sounds tough but its easy to do
I'm not good with liters I'm into the measurements of the USA . ozs. of oil to gallons of gasoline.
good luck hope this will help you
Norman
 

Echotraveler

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Aug 25, 2008
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ill open it up tonight see if i can get to work tommorow..=-)

i hava a nice calliper tool ill measure it for .025 and .020 when the headlight arrives


i thought the dust was there because i didnt engage the clutch completly or because i forced the engine to work when my clutch cable was damaged...
 

Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
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Now the dust inside of the clutch cover can be normal due to the gasket rubbing on the gears and the dust from the clutch pads along with grease from the gears. excess grease can cause the clutch to slip if it get on the clutch pads, so go easy on the grease for the gears.
under the small gear is the cranks seal it can be worn through by the gear if it rubs the seal a leaking seal will have black oily poo around it black dust before it starts to leak then it gets nasty with the oily stuff.
Norman
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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I would bet a thin dollar you are too rich, and the vibrations you are feeling is from the engine four cycling.
Go up one more notch and try it, same results? Go to the top notch.

Keep us posted.
 

Echotraveler

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Aug 25, 2008
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ok heres the game plan

gonna take a pic of the cover and muffler

then put the spark plug to .025 (mm?inch?)

make sure the clutch lever disengages completly.

make a new batch of gas.

i will put the needle 1 slot higher than stock (note: the first times i used the motor, the temp was to high and the the iddle was very accelerated, so i had to lower the C clip on the needle)

whats "four cycling"?
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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.025"
Don't go back to the leaner setting, but do check for an air leak.
4 cycling is when a two stroke is too ruich, and it 4 cycles, or fires every other time, making a steady staccotto sound instead of a smooth 2 cycle buzz.
 

Echotraveler

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Aug 25, 2008
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.025"
making a steady staccotto sound instead of a smooth 2 cycle buzz.
thats very much like it!
well ill check the intake again for leaks...most likely not because of the cold i can see on the intake...maybe one has nothing to do with air leaks..

so you would recomend not to move the clip to the upper part?

you guys rock!
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
252
63
up north now
If it's doing that, it is too rich, and does not indicate an air leak. Move the clip up one notch and ride it, see how it behaves. If it is still doing it, then go one more. You will also get the same symptoms (4 cycling) when the muffler is too restrictive, and it will be hard to tune it.
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
252
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up north now
I would start with the c clip second from the top and go from there.
If one is too rich, and the next notch up is too lean, there are other ways to fix the problem.
 

NEAT TIMES

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May 28, 2008
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The Idle Speed Is Set (adjusted) By The Screw On The Side With Spring Around It. Turn It In (clockwise) To Speed Up Idle Rpm. Turn To Left To Slow Engine Down. This Is For Idle Speed, Sitting Still. Moving The Clip On The Fuel Jet Needle Is For High Speed. .025 Is Inch.(25 Thousands Of 1 Inch.) Parts Stores Sell Little Tool For Cheap. Ron
 
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Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
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I think I need to chime in.(gripe a little) Thank you guys for all your in puts. But could you let me do a one on one with the guy having the problem. If you see me telling something that isn't right then jump in by all means or PM me if you want to add something to the person having the problem then PM that person with your answer. Its getting to be a mess I can't keep up with it all I have to go back to the first post and reread it to remember all the problems they are having.
Thanks everyone.
Norman
 
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Echotraveler

New Member
Aug 25, 2008
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Update,

got home took some pics of the new muffler and open right motor cover, and made sure the clutch arm work accordingly.

then i put the needle 1 up from the center

iddle: it stays on iddle, no problem, but i felt as if rpm's were higher in comparison with an open exhaust, i guess no problem cause when on iddle you can feel the motor decelerate and working.

acceleration, it felt ok, guess the little engine dont like to move too slow, but i can propel myself quickly with less than half the throttle.

sound: it still has some kind of mechanical sound....not sure what, very low sound..but i can hear something. when i took the dust cover i had accumulated just a tiny bit mor black dust...

in comparison to open exhaust it iddles at higher RPM and vibrates more.

the motor still makes a stacotto sound, but its more of a background sound.

im going now to fill a gallon of gas and do a 4 oz change....to see if i can fine tune it without having to interact with the jet ...after a run with the new gas ill take a pic of the jet with accurate measurments..and correct the spark plug to .025" if needed.
thanx for the replys,
 

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Norman

LORD VADER Moderator
Jan 16, 2008
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lets see?
your dust is more than likely from the clutch and not the seal.
you have the needle at the second from the top clip? I think.
you can adjust the idle speed to make it idle how fast you want it to.
your spark plug was nasty! black and oily too rich,or too much fuel or its been idling a bunch and maybe still rich.
the needle should measure about 0.070 thousands of an inch at the fat end where the clip slots are and at the tapered end only about 0.068 thousands of an inch not much of a taper but that is where mine are and I have a nice brown plug
the main jet should be 0.026 thousands of an inch nice precise round hole not a wobbly goblin one some come that way very badly drilled hole. you can solder it shut with regular solder and a propane torch re drill it using a pen vice and micro drill I show that in the carb thread don't use a power drill it will be very hard to get a nice straight hole with it and you might break the drill bit.http://motorbicycling.com/f39/motorized-bicycle-carburetor-install-rebuild-302.html permalink #6
I think you might have a cat muffler you can cut it open a take out the guts re weld it back it will or should be quiet.
If your going to run a light try 0.020 spark plug gap. Your plug might be close to being fowled out it looked pretty nasty.
You can change to a 32 to1 fuel/oil mix run the bike get it warned up good then do a wide open throttle run hit the kill button then check the color of the plug see if it is more brown if not then you will need to look into the carbs man jet. Most people wait for the engine to cool off to pull the spark plug I don't, I use a booger of never seize on the plug threads to keep the plug from galling the threads first time I install a spark plug and every time, I do mean a tiny bit none on the electrode or it will fowl the plug out. I also don't over tighten the plug.( used plug once it contacts the gasket no more than 1/16 of a turn to tighten about the width of the socket wrench handle or less you should have a feel when its tight enough) If your worried about thread damage wait until its cooled off enough that you can touch the head with out burning yourself. Remember the spark plug will still be very warm. You can google champion spark plugs and they should have info on tightening the spark plug if yor wanting more info.
let me know if any of this helps.
Norman