Piston Questions

GoldenMotor.com

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
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Colonial Coast USA.
When it comes to lightening the piston does any one know the ideal(or ball park) target weight. I have seen as many as 27 holes drilled into the piston, but no indication that that was the ideal situation. I realize there are different combos of crank/pistons that would require different values. How to determine the ideal?

If one is running reeds does the piston really need the rear skirt? Could it, the entire bottom be trimmed even with the transfer window all the way around?
 

Ron344

Member
Oct 13, 2012
209
2
18
colorado
If the piston skirt is cut above the exhaust port the motor won't run. It wouldn't have any crankcase pressure. Too many holes in one side would make for an uneven balanced piston. By cut too much weight for the piston you create a bigger problem with the balance of the crank.
 

Davezilla

New Member
Mar 15, 2014
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San Antonio Texas
There's a lot more to lightening a piston to obtain a balanced engine than drilling a bunch of holes in it... Basically, the only real way to do it is to have the crank out and add a bob weight then set the crank on a set of leveled balance knives, add or reduce weight on the bob weight until the crank will rest at any position since it will always try to rest with the heavy spot down when sitting on the balance knives.

Once you got it balanced you need to weigh the bob weight and record that number.
This is what your piston should weigh... Nope... not quite... if it was a twin cylinder engine, that would work, but not so well on a single. There's what's called a balance factor where the piston should weigh a certain percent of the bob weight's weight. This is done to compensate for the piston acceleration that would throw a perfectly balanced assembly way off balance so a balance factor must be used to help offset this.
The next big issue with single cylinder balancing is that no matter what's done it'll never obtain a perfect balbnce, but it can be balanced to run really smooth in a certain rpm range so basically if you got a fast engine that's going to be run mostly at a higher rpm then you balance the engine so it smooths out at this rpm, it'll still vibrate progressively harder as the rpm increases above or decreases below this rpm, but there's a fairly wide range it'll stay acceptably smooth... There's more to this than I can explain, but the info is out there with a good amount of info in this forum as well as youtube for balancing these engines.

About the best we can do here is get the crank straight and true, then find out what weight others have lightened their pistons to and this will get you a lot closer than running a stock weight piston, but if you copy someone else's numbers, make sure their engine is turning the same rpm's yours is at cruise speed. The typical concensus here is to reduce the weight of the piston, but you can still go too far with it and make things worse.

I would recommend looking up posts and articles on balance factors and also check youtube for balancing how tos on these engines if you want to get it as precise as possible.
 
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frank66

New Member
Jan 15, 2015
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canada
to lighten the piston. the easiest way to drop weight is to remove the lower ring to save 7 grams.
what your asking it seems is how to install a reed valve? there is a good thread active now called reed valves .
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
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63
Colonial Coast USA.
Thanks for the reply DaveZ, I have read a link that maybe you posted about crank balancing and balance factor. I guess what I am getting at is the articles I have read concerning the CG for the most part specify so many holes of a specific size, and substituting lighter wrist pins. This seems rather hit and miss but if I works then it works. I was trying to determine a target weight or there about to see if making my piston look like swiss cheese is even getting close to the weight necessary.

Frank66, not asking about the reed concept, have read the threads . Was asking if the lower skirt of the piston is necessary with reeds. I have seen so many holes and large windows cut that it nearly removes the rear skirt. Some folks have removed a portion of the front skirt as its not necessary but mention the possibility of piston imbalance if too much is removed. Was thinking of cutting the pistons skirt completely off even with the transfer windows as a starting point for lightening. It keeps the piston balanced for the most part. Im not keen on one ring. I have done it on M/Cs. The CG engines have way wide ring gaps and low tension rings to take it easy on the crappy plating. I feel it will need two rings using stock ones.

This is the piston in my engine(bore is 47mm). Im talking cutting 5mm off the front and back to match the 5mm windows. Cant see that this would ever affect the exhaust side. In my engine it will clear the piston from the intake, that much is left at TDC.

Am I thinking right or wrong?
 

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frank66

New Member
Jan 15, 2015
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canada
balance is the last thing to worry about. on the intake side the piston skirt cut sounds fine but the window needs to be up near the rings to catch the transfers open.
there is nothing more than 0.2 grams available to remove for balancing on exhaust side so its simply not done.
i can tell you that making the piston walls thinner makes them flexable and weaker »»»
very quickly i could feel the rotory burr thru the aluminum where i tried to lighten a piston wall. at stock thickness i felt nothing. hope that helps. i was able to remove little weight but gained seemingly a thin and flexable piston.

i had zero noise or complaint when allmost a 2 gram window was used. it ran great and sounded amazing
 
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cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
So the take away is getting weight off the piston safely is limited. A window for the reeds and lighter wrist pin is the safest route? Not fond of the idea of drilling lightening holes.
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
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Colonial Coast USA.
Any body try one of these? Its a Hoca brand which is good, 10mm pin. Looks like chrome rings which wont work. From a Yamaha/Minirelli.

Just for fun go to ebay and search 47mm piston as see what comes up! WOW!
 
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frank66

New Member
Jan 15, 2015
207
2
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canada
your inventive/ i like it. you can msg me and save thread space if you want. probly any regular member here would help w those questions.

stock piston is 9.99 and it fits good :)
 
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cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
3,682
221
63
Colonial Coast USA.
Yeah you are right about the stock piston its probably the best part in the engine. I found that JOG piston can be run in the CG, but is heavier so I guess that is a negative right out of the gate. Was really looking at the chainsaw pistons. They are very light and some use a 10mm pin. Problem is there are never any measurements offered on pin height. They visibly look possible to maybe use in the GT5 type high pin engine.
 

Ron344

Member
Oct 13, 2012
209
2
18
colorado
Treatland has a lot of different pistons to chose from. I was looking at trying one of them. I was thinking of a single ring piston. I did use a single ring on the CG for awhile but went back to two rings.
 

kevo

New Member
Jan 4, 2015
28
0
0
Murrieta ca
I bought a "modified piston and ported cyl" from a vender here and was suprised that the piston was cut all the way around. Also the "ramps" on the piston were also shaved all the way around too. I figured they know what they are doing so I installed the piston and cyl. Took it for a ride, Way slow, no bottom end at all. Puled the cyl and replaced it with mystock cyl. Ran quite a bit better but still no bottom end. I was also getting a bunch of oil leaking around my exhaust gasket. Today I decided to pull the pipe and look inside. Yep piston at TDC is 2mm above exh port.
 

maniac57

Old, Fat, and still faster than you
Oct 8, 2011
4,484
22
0
memphis Tn
Sounds like you got taken by the usual advertising lies.
"Race", "Speed", "Ported", "Modified" are all used to lighten the wallets of the unwary.
 

kevo

New Member
Jan 4, 2015
28
0
0
Murrieta ca
Funny thing though is it would haul ass on the top end. I was clocked at 34mph coming up my "test" hill. It just didn't have much low end.
 

Ron344

Member
Oct 13, 2012
209
2
18
colorado
I can't imagine that it would even runs with the piston skirt above the exhaust port. The people who sold it should have know it wouldn't work. I would send it back.
 

YesImLDS

Member
Jun 29, 2013
960
12
18
Columbia, Missouri
I can't imagine that it would even runs with the piston skirt above the exhaust port. The people who sold it should have know it wouldn't work. I would send it back.
It would run, I would just assume there would be a lack of power due to half the fuel and air going straight out the exhaust.
 

mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
5,502
109
63
Central Area of Texas
I bought a "modified piston and ported cyl" from a vender here and was suprised that the piston was cut all the way around. Also the "ramps" on the piston were also shaved all the way around too. I figured they know what they are doing so I installed the piston and cyl. Took it for a ride, Way slow, no bottom end at all. Puled the cyl and replaced it with mystock cyl. Ran quite a bit better but still no bottom end. I was also getting a bunch of oil leaking around my exhaust gasket. Today I decided to pull the pipe and look inside. Yep piston at TDC is 2mm above exh port.
(The post below is an edit since the first post was incorrect due to me being in a hurry at work and not reading through the details like I should have before saying anything on the subject..)

That aint good at all, and the person selling a mess like that needs to be informed that they are obviously clueless to what they're doing.
 
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