DIY TRIKE DUAL TRACTION DRIVE by NEAT TIMES

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NEAT TIMES

NEAT TIMES

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May 28, 2008
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TODAY I SKETCHED OUT A EASY DUAL DRIVE SYSTEM FOR SOME TRIKE MODELS. BOUGHT A FEW USED TRIKES, INSTALLED A FRICTION DRIVE ON ONE OF THEM. IT WORKS WELL, BUT TRIKE`S DO FEEL A LOT DIFFERENT.

HAVE HAD THE DUAL REAR WHEEL DRIVE IDEA IN THE BACK OF MY MIND FOR AWHILE. TODAY I STARTED SKETCHING IT OUT ON PAPER TO GET IT VISUAL IN MY MIND. I`M THINKING THE FREEWHEEL SPROCKET WILL LET IT TURN WITHOUT A BIND IN THE TIRES.

THIS WILL WORK NICELY AS A RIGHT SIDE DRIVE ONLY WITH A FREEWHEEL FOR PULL START MOTORS ALSO. AND WOULD BE EASY TO ADD THE LEFT SIDE REAR WHEEL ADDITION LATER AND NOT HAVE TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE INSTALLED RIGHT SIDE DRIVE.

IT WILL BE EVIDENT THIS SKETCH WAS NOT MEANT TO BE POSTED. CLEANED IT UP AND WILL POST IT AS I HAVE A HABIT OF NOT RE-DOING THINGS. WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.

MEMBERS AND GUESTS MAY NEED TO STUDY IT A BIT.

STATON SELLS KEYED ADAPTERS FOR THE REAR AXLES WITH THE KEYWAY. MOST AXLES ARE 5/8" ABOUT $15. EA IF THEY ARE NEEDED. BOUGHT MY HD HUBS FROM "Bicycle-Engines.com" @ $49.99 ea, BOUGHT TWO OF THEM AND A THROTTLE CABLE TO GET THE FREE SHIPPING.

FREEWHEEL BEARING WOULD NOT BE NEEDED ON THE TIRE AXLES. THE TIRE THAT SPINS LIKE A FRONT WHEEL WILL NEED TO BE LOCKED TO THE AXLE IN SOME MANNER .

THEY ARE OUT IN THE SHOP, THINKING THE AXLE IS 1/2" DIA WITH TWO SEALED BEARINGS ON EACH SIDE, 4 BRGS TOTAL. THE HUB IS RIGHT HAND THREAD ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE FOR A SINGLE FREEWHEEL SPROCKET OR A CASSETTE.

THE LEFT SIDE IS UNUSUAL!! BUT MAKES SENSE! LOL IT HAS A LEFT HAND THREAD NEAREST THE SPOKE FLANGE, AND A RIGHT HAND THREAD ON THE OUTER MOST PART OF THE HUB.

HERE IS THE RUB, THE LEFT HAND THREAD IS OVER SIZED TO GET PAST THE STANDARD 1 3/8" RIGHT HAND THREADS. I PURCHASED THE HUBS FOR THE LEFT HAND THREAD ADAPTERS AND 48 TOOTH SPROCKETS. I HAVE A DIE FOR CUTTING LEFT HAND THREADS ON MY WHEELS WITH OUT TAKING THE SPOKES OFF. LATER FOUND STANDARD 1 3/8" LEFT HAND THREAD ADAPTERS. SO I HAVE NOT USED MY HUBS YET.

THE HUBS AND PARTS WILL WORK PERFECTLY FOR THE TRIKE. THE HUBS COME WITH THE LEFT HAND THREAD ADAPTER AND A 48 TOOTH SPROCKET THAT BOLTS TO THE ADAPTER, ALSO INCLUDED IS A COMPLETE DRUM BRAKE SYSTEM. THAT USES THE RIGHT HAND THREAD ON THE LEFT SIDE OF BIKE. THE BRAKE WOULD BE LEFT OFF AND A RIGHT HAND FREEWHEEL SPROCKET SCREWED ON FOR DRIVING THE REAR WHEEL.

THERE ARE OTHER OPTINS FOR THIS HUB ON TRIKES ALSO.

THIS IS NOT NEAR AS COMPLICATED AS IT FIRST SEEMS. LOL.

RON
 

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Elmo

Elmo

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Hey Ron. Got the creative juices flowing again I see. I can hardly wait to see what you come up with this time. I am starting on a recumbent bike for my HF engine. I have retired the Flying Dutchman, It was a concept bike and has proved to work well, I just hate a regular bike seat.
 
NEAT TIMES

NEAT TIMES

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May 28, 2008
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Hi elmo

your "flying dutchman" build is great, inspriration for many. Straight forward and dependable.

Started this thread for anyone wanting a trike for pulling a large heavy trailer !! Lol.

To change it to pedal starting is very easy. They make a "2 stroke hub" .

The hub in my sketch is a "4 stroke hub". They cost the same, $49.99.

Only 1 part is different. The adapter with the oversized left hand tread is not a freewheel hub, it is a solid hub. It is for "starting a china girl motor" (also called a happy time) by pedaling, or any motor requiring pedal starting of the motor.

Pedal starting works with the solid adapter and you will still have the freewheel for coasting up to stop signs or down hills with your motor quiet @ idle.

As i think my way through this, it gets better yet! Many trikes have the one piece axle that drives one wheel only. Usually the other wheel is on bearings like a front wheel.

The tire axle sprocket could be slide over to the left side to align with the left side hub sprocket. This would still be one wheel drive as one wheel is on bearings, not locked to axle.

If the rear axle that the tires and wheel are on is a two piece axle, switch
them from side to side. This would be for a simple one wheel drive system.

Motor gear ratio is accomplished mainly with the "sprocket tooth count" on the left hand threaded hub. The 2 stroke `non freewheel` adapter and the 4 stroke `freewheel` adapter have the same bolt pattern for attachment to sprocket. The main hubs are identicle in both kits. You can give the drum brake to someone you don`t like !! Lol.

The left hand adapters can be bought separately, about $20. Each +sh. The whole kit is a better barain. It is a heavy duty unit.

More gear ratio could be achived by using staton rear wheel axle adapters and using freewheel sprockets or freewheel adapter for bolting on different size sprockets.

When purchasing threaded axle adapters that are threaded 1~3/8" od, reccomend the 3 groove adapter, same price. Staton has 3 prong sprocket`s for under $5. Each. They are available in 18 and 22 tooth size only i think. The 3 groove adapter`s work as good without adding a 3 prong sprocket, but you keep that option open for different "endeavers"!!

3 prong sprockets can be installed and held in place by a freewheel sprocket or a freewheel adapter. They could also be secured with bicycle bottom bracket spanner nuts. They are designed for a very clever use on jackshaft systems.

Wheeeeew, i`m getting a sore throat! Like shania twain, sharing my pain.
Oh!! Don`t believe the mod with two doors! Lol.

For those having trouble grasping this system, relax, am confused my ownself!!

Ron .cvlt1
 
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NEAT TIMES

NEAT TIMES

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May 28, 2008
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Hi Brian
Welcome to the forum. I am from central Wi, been in Fl for 20 yrs.

Limited Slip, yes, that is the reason for the rear axle free wheel adapters, and to make turning better.

Catch you later, we are gettin my 28 ft "House for Battered Fish" near compleation (on a 28 ft pontooon boat). When the House Boat is finished, will start assembling my stretch cruise with 140cc Honda clone.

Cannonball2 has recently built a in frame friction drive I may go that way on the stretch. Check out his threads, several nice builds.

Ron
 
cannonball2

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Wow NT! My head is a spinnin. Strangely last Sunday I took trike in on trade on the sale of one of my builds. Was chasing the dogs around the yard with it when I got it up on two wheels and realized it was single wheel drive on the right side. Just happen to have an engine sitting around and was thinking how to drive both wheels. Looks like you have done a lot of thinking for me! I have a Grubee HS/G4 unit that will fit it nicely. I was going to extend the output shaft enough to add a second drive sprocket then split the axle and add two free wheels and final drive sprockets. This would leave the pedal freewheel in place for pedaling. Of course I will have to fix the left wheel to the axle.
 
cannonball2

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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My trike is a 4 bearing supported rear axle with a 5/8 key way the full length , at least whats exposed. Should be as simple(it never is) as splitting the axle, adding freewheels and sprockets, welding a disc on the one axle and bolting the non driven wheel to it, it already has the necessary holes. The 5/8 axles should be sufficient as the drive is most of the time divided between the two. The exception being when turing, and that would usually under reduced throttle. The HS engine doest apply gobs of power initally especially throught the auto clutch. I could see some heavy loading with a roll start. This would be for my wife anyway who has a lax throttle hand.
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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Ron,
Good to see the wheels turning in yer head, Bud. Much of what you describe is beyond my understanding, so I'll have to have Fasteddy or Curtis Fox explain it to me as they would to a child.
Speaking of which, the last time I had a trike I was 6 or 7. Today I turned 67 and find myself thinking about a trike again. When and if I build one it will have to be maroon colored and have a little bell on the handlebar like the one I had as a kid. Kid sized bikes weren't common then so kids tended to use trikes a little longer. Mine was chain drive and weighed a ton. I went directly from that monster to a 26" bike with blocks of wood on the pedals so I could reach them, more or less since I still had to slide down from side to side to pedal. Crashed that more than once learning how to ride.
Since I'm coming full circle, thanks for having this thread for me to learn from all of you smart guys.
SB
 
Kiwegapawa

Kiwegapawa

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May 2, 2011
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I guess I'm missing something, just like SilverBear. What would be the problem with a single axle that both rear wheels are bolted to? Maybe I'm just missing trix. But I have owned many positive traction cars. And yes, I understand the point of going around corners and the difference of friction towards the inner and outter rear wheel. So please, Can you explain to me why I'm not finding positive traction rear axle for a trike? As all I have found in that of the 3-Wheel Conversion Kits, all appear to be one wheel peel. Course Trix are fur Kid's, and I passed bein a Kid bout 50 years ago!


.shft.
 
2door

2door

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Sep 15, 2008
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Kiwegapawa said:
I guess I'm missing something, just like SilverBear. What would be the problem with a single axle that both rear wheels are bolted to? Maybe I'm just missing trix. But I have owned many positive traction cars. And yes, I understand the point of going around corners and the difference of friction towards the inner and outter rear wheel. So please, Can you explain to me why I'm not finding positive traction rear axle for a trike? As all I have found in that of the 3-Wheel Conversion Kits, all appear to be one wheel peel. Course Trix are fur Kid's, and I passed bein a Kid bout 50 years ago!


.shft.
Click to expand...
If you've driven Posi-Traction cars, or ones with a locked differential you're familiar with the tire scrubbing effects when turning, especially through a sharp turn. On a car, or a heavier vehicle you won't notice as much as you would a light vehicle like a trike. Having both rear wheels pulling through a turn can/will cause control and stability problems. In fact, if there isn't enough weight/ tire contact on the front wheel to steer, the rear drive wheels will naturally want to go straight and turning ability will be decreased. No big problem IF you remember to let off the power while turning. Apply too much power in a turn and you might find yourself headed for a wall, a fence, a person or whatever happens to be straight ahead of you. Trikes are inherently unstable, any three wheeled vehicle is, and you'll want all the positive control you can while riding one.
Tom
 
Kiwegapawa

Kiwegapawa

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May 2, 2011
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Yes, you are right. I even noted the point in the difference. But just like what was suggested in the thread - Trikes being Unstable Though not to the point of 35 miles an hour as 2Door suggests, the answers are still indeed there to this problem. This being the point of short axle widths and weight sitting high. Where this adjustment brings down the chances of flipping. To bring in that center of balance which Corgi1 point out through recumbants. I'd like to go one further in saying the point of adding more solution to this, won't be found in a one wheel peel. Just the opposite actually. If you have ever driven on a dirt track or at high speeds on a paved track with a positive traction? You then know about steering in the opposite direction of the turn you are in. If there is to be a safer transition in the point of three wheelers, this is where it will be found. Something you can't do with a one wheel peel. I am not advocating high speeds around corners. Just saying this is where the better solution will be found. This between the Lower Center of Gravity, Wider Axle Formation, plus some type ryders body weight itinerant to allow weight to the inside wheels. The formulation is there some where? Niether speed, nor positive traction is the problem. This as turning away from the corner at a high speed proves. LoL, just wish I could find the solution and to bring it down to reasonable speeds in the design!


.shft.
 
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