I had all the things they say we need plus a helmet. I don't ride on sidewalks but I will use the bike lanes, especially in the 45 MPH speed zones and Overland & Cole area, the busiest intersection in the state. I also use them when I can see or hear traffic coming up on me from behind...I do want to stay alive....
Interesting Idaho law interpretation
- Thread starter RandyWhite
- Start date
I ride from Kuna to meridian. I was stopped today and told that I was required to have brake and turn signals. The officer told me that i was considered a motor driven cycle. The officer was incorrectiand that the closest category is moped which exempts me from title, registration, and brake lights and turn signals. The way I view the bike lane is that it is unsafe. I am instructed by law to ride farthest to the right and if I do that I naturally end up in the bike lane so I think that could be successfully argued in court. You guys have any more issues? I know it's been quite a while since this post had activity.
If the officer was referencing motor driven cycle for the purpose of quoting Federal motor vehicle lighting standard 108 requirements he wasn’t entirely incorrect.
The Federal safety standard defines a motor driven cycle as every motorcycle, including every motor scooter, with a motor which produces not more than 5 horsepower, and every bicycle with motor.
However he was definitely incorrect when he said turn signals are required. According to FMVSS turn signal lamps are not required on a motor driven cycle whose speed attainable in 1 mile is 30 mph or less.
49 CFR 571.108 - Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...6ce8016&mc=true&node=se49.6.571_1108&rgn=div8
S4 Definitions.
Motor driven cycle means every motorcycle, including every motor scooter, with a motor which produces not more than 5 horsepower, and every bicycle with motor.
Scroll waaaaay down the page to: Table I-c—Required Lamps and Reflective Devices
Turn Signal Lamps
2 Amber. None required on a motor driven cycle whose speed attainable in 1 mile is 30 mph or less
The Federal safety standard defines a motor driven cycle as every motorcycle, including every motor scooter, with a motor which produces not more than 5 horsepower, and every bicycle with motor.
However he was definitely incorrect when he said turn signals are required. According to FMVSS turn signal lamps are not required on a motor driven cycle whose speed attainable in 1 mile is 30 mph or less.
49 CFR 571.108 - Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...6ce8016&mc=true&node=se49.6.571_1108&rgn=div8
S4 Definitions.
Motor driven cycle means every motorcycle, including every motor scooter, with a motor which produces not more than 5 horsepower, and every bicycle with motor.
Scroll waaaaay down the page to: Table I-c—Required Lamps and Reflective Devices
Turn Signal Lamps
2 Amber. None required on a motor driven cycle whose speed attainable in 1 mile is 30 mph or less
That's the thing he wasn't quoting it for the federal safety but purpose of Idaho law. He tried to claim that idaho law classifies me as a motor driven scooter which is incorrect (idaho law NOW states mds classifies to require the lamps).
The Idaho law classifies my bike as a moped! Exempt from title registration insurance and signals. He argued hard for that because as a mds he could cite me. I recorded the interaction and posted it to YouTube. The law does say i cannot ride the bike lane. The law provides that I must ride to the right shoulder. My issue is that when a bike lane is present it is impossible to ride right without moving into the bike lane. The law must be clear and allow for compliance. If I were to get chief i believe I could effectively argue the law to be too vague resulting in unconstitutionality.
The Idaho law classifies my bike as a moped! Exempt from title registration insurance and signals. He argued hard for that because as a mds he could cite me. I recorded the interaction and posted it to YouTube. The law does say i cannot ride the bike lane. The law provides that I must ride to the right shoulder. My issue is that when a bike lane is present it is impossible to ride right without moving into the bike lane. The law must be clear and allow for compliance. If I were to get chief i believe I could effectively argue the law to be too vague resulting in unconstitutionality.
Yeah Officer Moe was clearly clueless of the law, definition wise anyway. I kept waiting for Curly and Larry to arrive as backup, ha ha.
It appeared he was reading directly from that old 2015 ADA County Sheriff’s blog - illegal to ride in the bike lane while under motorized power, you need a stoplight, taillight, and a horn, (no mention of turn signals), blah blah blah then referring you to Idaho Code 49-114 which he clearly has not read or doesn’t comprehend. https://adasheriffblog.org/2015/02/...cles-are-not-allowed-in-dedicated-bike-lanes/
I missed the part where you said he claimed it was a “motor driven scooter” or MDS? I heard him reference “motorized bicycle”, “pedal driven cycle”, “motorized cycle” all in one breath, then “motorbike” before finally telling you it’s not a “motorcycle” or “moped” it’s a “motor-driven cycle”. WTF?
That kind of babble right there clearly shows Officer Moe has no idea of Idaho’s legal definition of your bike, so how in h@ll could he profess to tell you what laws or safety regulations you’re required to follow, unless he’s reading from a cue card.
Under Idaho Title 49-114(9)(a) your bike is clearly defined as a Moped and that the FMSSV standards are only required for electric mopeds as defined in 49-114(9)(b).
Title 49-114(13) then goes on to say “Motor-driven cycle” does not include Mopeds. https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title49/T49CH1/SECT49-114/
I’m sure you’re aware that was your one and only warning. It was pretty clear Officer Moe was under orders not to ticket MB riders on the first stop. He almost broke though when you called him a Biatch, a F-ing Bully and Liar, ha ha it was killing him, also nice touch with the compliment and one finger salute as he was leaving!
If that’s your regular commute route you better get on Amazon Prime right now and find yourself a horn, tail/brake light and switches. Oh yeah and stay out of the bike lane.
Good luck and keep us posted here on how your next meeting with Officer Moe goes.
PS. You may also want to pickup a copy of your states motorcycle handbook and carry it with you. The definitions and codes referenced above are right at the front of the book and are spelled out clearly.
Bold underlined parts of 49-114(9)(b) on page V and the FMSSV see definition reference in the Vehicle Chart on page VI are perfect for making your argument while pulled over chatting it up with the officer on the side of the road! https://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/motorcycle_manual.pdf
It appeared he was reading directly from that old 2015 ADA County Sheriff’s blog - illegal to ride in the bike lane while under motorized power, you need a stoplight, taillight, and a horn, (no mention of turn signals), blah blah blah then referring you to Idaho Code 49-114 which he clearly has not read or doesn’t comprehend. https://adasheriffblog.org/2015/02/...cles-are-not-allowed-in-dedicated-bike-lanes/
I missed the part where you said he claimed it was a “motor driven scooter” or MDS? I heard him reference “motorized bicycle”, “pedal driven cycle”, “motorized cycle” all in one breath, then “motorbike” before finally telling you it’s not a “motorcycle” or “moped” it’s a “motor-driven cycle”. WTF?
That kind of babble right there clearly shows Officer Moe has no idea of Idaho’s legal definition of your bike, so how in h@ll could he profess to tell you what laws or safety regulations you’re required to follow, unless he’s reading from a cue card.
Under Idaho Title 49-114(9)(a) your bike is clearly defined as a Moped and that the FMSSV standards are only required for electric mopeds as defined in 49-114(9)(b).
Title 49-114(13) then goes on to say “Motor-driven cycle” does not include Mopeds. https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title49/T49CH1/SECT49-114/
I’m sure you’re aware that was your one and only warning. It was pretty clear Officer Moe was under orders not to ticket MB riders on the first stop. He almost broke though when you called him a Biatch, a F-ing Bully and Liar, ha ha it was killing him, also nice touch with the compliment and one finger salute as he was leaving!
If that’s your regular commute route you better get on Amazon Prime right now and find yourself a horn, tail/brake light and switches. Oh yeah and stay out of the bike lane.
Good luck and keep us posted here on how your next meeting with Officer Moe goes.
PS. You may also want to pickup a copy of your states motorcycle handbook and carry it with you. The definitions and codes referenced above are right at the front of the book and are spelled out clearly.
Bold underlined parts of 49-114(9)(b) on page V and the FMSSV see definition reference in the Vehicle Chart on page VI are perfect for making your argument while pulled over chatting it up with the officer on the side of the road! https://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/motorcycle_manual.pdf
Lol yeah i was pretty mad at his arrogance. I misspoke and meant motor driven cycle. I actually had hoped for him to cite me and look forward to it. I am confident in my legal capabilities and would enjoy a firm court battle (I doubt he would even show up). I'm the kind of guy that will not comply just based on principle lol.
The funny part about the motorcycle handbook is that it provides incorrect information!!! I screen shot the codes and will keep them on my phone for the future!
The funny part about the motorcycle handbook is that it provides incorrect information!!! I screen shot the codes and will keep them on my phone for the future!
Ok boys ready to pick this one apart ? My email from Meridian pd regarding mopeds
Hello, this is Cpl. Wilson with the Meridian Police Department. I am the traffic team Corporal and I am hoping to address your concerns in your email reference your mode of transportation. In reviewing Idaho Code a vehicle is described as every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks (49-123 (2)(a). You cited 49-908 and further in the first paragraphs it reads “any person to drive a vehicle on the highways must be equipped with at least one stop lamp meeting the requirements of section 49-919 IC. This applies when you are under motorized power. You are correct that no motorcycle, motorized cycle etc.. are required to have turn signals but in their absence you are required to use hand signals.
Under pedal power your vehicle, which is now considered a bicycle, would fall under the bicycle laws which require a head lamp emitting at least 500 feet visibility to the front and a rear reflector clearly visible from the rear. These apply only an night. 49-723.
You are also not required to have registration, title, or a motorcycle endorsement. Below are the code sections dealing with required equipment specific to mopeds:
Headlight, required IC 49-905 (pedal at night 49-723)
Tail lamp, required IC 49-906 (in motorized mode)
Rear reflector, required 49-907 (in pedal mode 49-723)
Rear brake lamp, required 49-908 (in motorized mode)
If you have any further questions please feel free to contact me. I will also inform Ofc. Moe’s supervisor of your concerns and make sure he understands these “perceived infractions.” Thank you for your input.
Hello, this is Cpl. Wilson with the Meridian Police Department. I am the traffic team Corporal and I am hoping to address your concerns in your email reference your mode of transportation. In reviewing Idaho Code a vehicle is described as every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks (49-123 (2)(a). You cited 49-908 and further in the first paragraphs it reads “any person to drive a vehicle on the highways must be equipped with at least one stop lamp meeting the requirements of section 49-919 IC. This applies when you are under motorized power. You are correct that no motorcycle, motorized cycle etc.. are required to have turn signals but in their absence you are required to use hand signals.
Under pedal power your vehicle, which is now considered a bicycle, would fall under the bicycle laws which require a head lamp emitting at least 500 feet visibility to the front and a rear reflector clearly visible from the rear. These apply only an night. 49-723.
You are also not required to have registration, title, or a motorcycle endorsement. Below are the code sections dealing with required equipment specific to mopeds:
Headlight, required IC 49-905 (pedal at night 49-723)
Tail lamp, required IC 49-906 (in motorized mode)
Rear reflector, required 49-907 (in pedal mode 49-723)
Rear brake lamp, required 49-908 (in motorized mode)
If you have any further questions please feel free to contact me. I will also inform Ofc. Moe’s supervisor of your concerns and make sure he understands these “perceived infractions.” Thank you for your input.
With operating a MB the reality will be, you will be able to do 30 mph right on past heavy traffic traveling 10/15 mphRandy, I have to dissagree with the officer saying stay out of the bike lanes. I live on Victory Rd. The speed limit is 45 MPH. The officer would have me ride in 45 MPH very heavy traffic at 25 MPH? No, I'm pretty sure he's wrong on that point. I would be signing my own death warrent. I also ride through the Cole-Overland exchange. It's the busiest intersection in the state by far. I have been seen many many times by the police in the bike lanes. All they have ever done is glance at me and continue on their way.
Oh, and not to nitpick but I hope you contacted the Ada County Sherriff. Boise is in Ada County, Boise County is just north of us, very mountianous and sparcely populated and I pretty much doubt there a bikelane in the entire county
where in da code do it say the citizen of the state is subject to the code? as soon as you can show me I can pay and plead guilty!
No need to get mad when you are right, let the cop lose his cookies. this is how I handled a cop one morning a few weeks ago
