Texas Law-Motorcycles Have Saddles, Not Seats

GoldenMotor.com

DaltonST

New Member
Jun 3, 2012
4
0
0
Houston
See newly revised (May 2012) http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/msb/documents/VDRchart.pdf which clearly states the difference between a Moped and a Motorcycle as defined by the State of Texas.

Also, http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/TN/htm/TN.551.htm for supporting info.

So, if you live in Texas and have a 50cc or higher gasoline engine installed and it is functioning (turned on) on your bicycle, law enforcement likely will call your vehicle a motorcycle. It cannot be a moped or a "motor assisted scooter" since the engine would be greater than 50cc. It will require insurance, state inspection, registration, title, etc. just like a moped or motorcycle would, unless you can argue successfully that it is something entirely different than anything described in current Texas law (i.e., it falls thru the cracks in the law).

I argue that the law defines motorcycles and motor-driven cycles as having a "saddle". Bicycles have no "saddle". They have "seats". They have a "seat post" to support the "seat". So, my motorized bicycle is not a motorcycle nor is it a motor-driven cycle. It is a customized bicycle. It just happens to have a home-built small auxillary motor for special circumstances of limited time and distance duration (e.g. steep hill).

Bicycles have seats: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bicycle

bi·cy·cle (bskl, -s-kl, -skl)
n.
1. A vehicle consisting of a light frame mounted on two wire-spoked wheels one behind the other and having a seat, handlebars for steering, brakes, and two pedals or a small motor by which it is driven.
2. An exercise bicycle.

Go to Walmart and look for the thing you sit on when on a bicycle. Walmart calls it a "seat". There are seats that are large and comfy and salesmen call them "saddle style", but that cosmetic aspect does not make the seat into a saddle. A bicycle seat is always a seat, regardless of its style.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Per The Texas Department of Public Safety (aka Highway Patrol)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Definitions:

"Bicycle" means a device that a person may ride and that is propelled by human power and has two tandem wheels at least one of which is more than 14 inches in diameter. [If your motor is off and you are pedalling, you are pedalling a bicycle to propel it by human power at that specific point in time; also, it does not define a bicycle as having a "saddle". If it did, we would lose our case, but thankfully the law is silent on this point, which means a lawyer has an arguable point. Just be sure your engine is off. Be stealthy and don't be seen with the engine turned on.].

Motorcycle: Every motor vehicle having a saddle for the use of the rider and designed to propel itself with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor.

Motor-Driven Cycle: Every motorcycle with a motor which has an engine piston displacement of not more than 125cc. [So, it is a small motorcycle that has a saddle like a big motorcycle does].


In summary, remember that your bicycle has a seat, and not a saddle. If you get a ticket, go to traffic court and argue the above, quoting from current Texas law. And take your bicycle seat with you to show the judge.
 

maurtis

New Member
Dec 14, 2011
707
0
0
Kyle, TX
.flg.So in texas what would they say about this?
That would be a non-motor-driven cycle ;)

I actually had one of those I picked up off CL for a short while, but it was waaaay too tall for my son, so I sold it. The kid I sold it to did not believe me when I said the brakes worked great, so on the test ride he grabbed a handful of front brake and flipped it. I had never seen anyone actually do that without hitting something...

I replaced it with one of these, which I added rear pegs to so my 6 year old can ride with me ;)

 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
252
63
up north now
All I can add is "good luck".

"They" will do what ever they want.....if it's a motorized bike, I have found that it is going to be under the interpretation of the officer involved.
Moped? Maybe. Motorcycle? If they want....
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
252
63
up north now
P.S., what's the difference between a saddle and a seat officer?

"Alright, up against the wall m*********er!"
 

locell

Member
Jan 16, 2010
215
0
16
mesa
true, the trick is not to have to show anything, including yourself to the judge. Here in AZ they will "tow" your MB if they assess that it is a motorcycle that you are driving without registration/insurance/blahblah.
 

Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
11,837
252
63
up north now
I am sooooo glad I live out in the wilds where the police are few and far between, and those that are around are too occupied by their cell phones to notice much.
 

locell

Member
Jan 16, 2010
215
0
16
mesa
Texas has the word "Saddle" in a state law? Really?

idk whats wrong with the 50cc, I run a 48cc myself.
 

DaltonST

New Member
Jun 3, 2012
4
0
0
Houston
I sent an email to the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles asking what TXDMV form I should use to register and title my homemade motorized bicycle. I stated that I needed to do that in order to get it inspected and to buy liability insurance. This was their official response (which conflicts with what Texas Department of Transportation says, apparently because the TXDMV does not want to get involved with bicycles of any type for any reason whatsoever). So, the State of Texas DMV will not allow me to register my MB, get a title for it, and hence get an inspection sticker for it. The most I can do is call my insurance agent to get liability insurance (i.e. show "financial responsibility"). I will keep a copy of the email with me at all times while riding my MB to show any law enforcement why I don't have an inspection sticker and registration.

=========================================================

Dear Dalton,

Thank you for your email. The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles does not title or register bicycles, whether motorized or not.

Please feel free to contact me for additional information.

Best Regards,

Nicole Caston
Texas Department of Motor Vehicles
Consumer Relations Division
[email protected]

We are always trying to improve and appreciate your feedback. If you have a moment, please visit our website at www.TxDMV.gov/survey.htm and take our customer satisfaction survey to let us know how we are doing. If you simply have a suggestion, a complaint or even a compliment, email us at [email protected].


 

maurtis

New Member
Dec 14, 2011
707
0
0
Kyle, TX
I sent an email to the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles asking what TXDMV form I should use to register and title my homemade motorized bicycle. I stated that I needed to do that in order to get it inspected and to buy liability insurance. This was their official response (which conflicts with what Texas Department of Transportation says, apparently because the TXDMV does not want to get involved with bicycles of any type for any reason whatsoever). So, the State of Texas DMV will not allow me to register my MB, get a title for it, and hence get an inspection sticker for it. The most I can do is call my insurance agent to get liability insurance (i.e. show "financial responsibility"). I will keep a copy of the email with me at all times while riding my MB to show any law enforcement why I don't have an inspection sticker and registration.

=========================================================

Dear Dalton,

Thank you for your email. The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles does not title or register bicycles, whether motorized or not.

Please feel free to contact me for additional information.

Best Regards,

Nicole Caston
Texas Department of Motor Vehicles
Consumer Relations Division
[email protected]

We are always trying to improve and appreciate your feedback. If you have a moment, please visit our website at www.TxDMV.gov/survey.htm and take our customer satisfaction survey to let us know how we are doing. If you simply have a suggestion, a complaint or even a compliment, email us at [email protected].



Nice! I will see if I can get a similar response if I ever build up a larger displacement motorized bicycle.

"Sorry officer, I tried to register my velocipede with the DMV but they would not allow it, see?"

.wee.
 

maurtis

New Member
Dec 14, 2011
707
0
0
Kyle, TX
Perhaps I'm missing something but wouldn't that be more of a liability than a help? They just confirmed you have a non-compliant vehicle.
I guess it depends on how you read it, and the mood of the officer. It tells me that the DMV insists that it is still a bicycle. Since I make it a point to be very nice to our law enforcement officers, hopefully they would read it the same way. At least it shows that you made an attempt to register the vehicle...

But you are right, I am sure that it could be used as proof against you that your motorized bicycle is for offroad use only.
 

SpecialX

New Member
May 1, 2012
137
0
0
Florida
Correct..

They will not register a bicycle as a moped, for the main reason that a bicycle is typically not built to handle speeds of greater than 30mph...
Mopeds have VINs, bicycles do not.
Mopeds are generally much more structurally sound than a bicycle.
The Texas code has verbiage directly stating that an electric bicycle is not a moped, nor motor-driven cycle, nor motorcycle.
Albeit, electric bicycles are also NOT allowed to go more than 20mph.
If they are able to go over 20mph, you would need to register them as a motor driven cycle or moped to legally use them on public roads..
One could say, the same goes for a gas bicycle.
So, IMO if it's a gas bike and is able to go more than 20mph, then it wouldn't be allowed on public roads, as it would not be able to be registered via the DMV. And the same would hold true for an electric bike. (given the same 20mph limitation)

So if it was me, I would have a gas bike incapable of speeds greater than 20mph and not worry about registration and the like.
It kinda makes sense that if an electric bike is supposed to only go 20 then a gas bike would have the same restriction, otherwise it would not be allowed on public roads.
 

DaltonST

New Member
Jun 3, 2012
4
0
0
Houston
Be nice to the officer. Explain what TXDMV says. If he or she still gives you a ticket, go to traffic court and present your case to the judge. Be nice to the judge too. An average citizen cannot follow what one department of the State of Texas says to do (e.g. TXDPS) when the other department that is supposed to do it (e.g. TXDMV) flatly refuses because they never have and never will do what the first department is telling them to do. This is a classic governmental Catch-22. As a matter of equity, the judge should throw out the ticket since the citizen cannot possibly comply due to the Catch-22.
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,631
409
83
Dallas
Nothing has changed in Texas law that effects motor bicycles. We're still outside the law, because in Texas All motor vehicles are considered self propelled. Mopeds, motorcycles, automobiles are all self propelled. A china girl style MB is not, because you have to peddle it from a stop.

I'm only refering to gas powered MBs. Electric is a different can o worms.
 

Cavi Mike

New Member
Dec 17, 2011
189
0
0
Rochester, NY
Maybe if you got lawyered up and went to trial with this argument it's possible the charges would be dropped but it doesn't mean the cops won't mess with you even more and it also doesn't mean you won't be paying however many hundreds of dollars in lawyer fees.

And trust me, unless you're a lawyer yourself, you'll want proper council. Just because you found a couple excerpts in a law book doesn't mean you're a properly versed lawyer. The DA will mop the floor with you.
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,631
409
83
Dallas
What are you trying to do Dalton? Did you get a ticket for riding a motor bicycle? Are the police harrassing you for riding a motor bicycle? They don't seem to be bothering anyone else in Texas. What's your beef?