Two items that could save your life
- Thread starter karryhunt
- Start date
We call them 'rag' joints, but in reality they are cut out of used tire sidewalls.
Some are from steel belted radials, some from nylon, some double belted, you get the idea, they are all different.
How well a rag joint sprocket works depends a lot on the wheel.
If the sprocket fits just right over the hub you get the best alignment and with only fractions on an inch lateral movement room you won't have any 'catastrophic' failures.
If you center the 9 bolt sprocket bolts between the spokes and use the 5-4 back plate combo the rags comes together and form a sort of cushioned metal reinforced second outer hub for the spokes.
I have not tried this but I wonder if slowly spinning your wheel with a torch on the rag joints might even get those pieces of tire rubber to bond even better.
On the other hand take a Huffy Cranbrook coaster brake wheel, you have to leave the outer rag out, cup the sprocket out, and mount the sprocket right against the spokes at the hub connections or some other concoction 'fix'.
One other note is check that your sprocket is true on a flat surface!
You'd be surprised how many have some warp and will always have wobble if used.
I'm fortunate as I build a lot of shifters so there are always spares around but that is not so for first time builders and if you start out with a warped sprocket it all goes down hill from there.
Some are from steel belted radials, some from nylon, some double belted, you get the idea, they are all different.
How well a rag joint sprocket works depends a lot on the wheel.
If the sprocket fits just right over the hub you get the best alignment and with only fractions on an inch lateral movement room you won't have any 'catastrophic' failures.
If you center the 9 bolt sprocket bolts between the spokes and use the 5-4 back plate combo the rags comes together and form a sort of cushioned metal reinforced second outer hub for the spokes.
I have not tried this but I wonder if slowly spinning your wheel with a torch on the rag joints might even get those pieces of tire rubber to bond even better.
On the other hand take a Huffy Cranbrook coaster brake wheel, you have to leave the outer rag out, cup the sprocket out, and mount the sprocket right against the spokes at the hub connections or some other concoction 'fix'.
One other note is check that your sprocket is true on a flat surface!
You'd be surprised how many have some warp and will always have wobble if used.
I'm fortunate as I build a lot of shifters so there are always spares around but that is not so for first time builders and if you start out with a warped sprocket it all goes down hill from there.
pretty much, since I don't have any medicare due to a lack of $100/month for plan 'b'
I have both of these items. No need explaining how useful and how many headaches they've saved me. 
My rag joint almost literally tore my wheel apart and the stupid tensioner broke and fell off in the garage before it happened at speed.
My rag joint almost literally tore my wheel apart and the stupid tensioner broke and fell off in the garage before it happened at speed.
The key to a reliable ragjoint mount is shimming the center hole to fit your hub as tightly as possible to perfectly center it. I use strips cut from aluminum and have had no problems of any kind with the stock kit parts. If your sprocket does not fit the hub tightly, it will move no matter how tight you bolt it. Shimming removes any slop and centers everything.
Rag joint mounts to 18 and drives 18 spokes. Adapter mounts to hub drives 36 spokes. I use both methods with success. My opinion, NO Question as to the better method-more reliable-more stable over time the adapter wins hands down. 
Of course $100 is half way to Jackshaft shift kit and you won't have to dick with a direct drive sprocket or tensioner at all.
No experince with that. sorry I can't be of more help in your decision.
You are driving all the spokes though! Watch your money, educate yourself and good luck.
You are driving all the spokes though! Watch your money, educate yourself and good luck.
^lol
KC build bikes for a LIVING.
Not a hobby. So he knows a thing or two more than you, I would guess.
KC build bikes for a LIVING.
Not a hobby. So he knows a thing or two more than you, I would guess.
So he knows a thing or two more than you, I would guess. I can respect that. Be safe to say he does. I only speak of my personal experience.
Yeah, some people just don't get it. They had rather spend 10 laborus hours to save a couple bucks and then brag how their way is still better.I have both of these items. No need explaining how useful and how many headaches they've saved me.
Does it snow in texas? Just kidding. I wish I had front shocks, teh family jewels sure would appreciate it.
I simply think the stock stuff is not as bad as it's reputation. Don't get me wrong, I'm cheap because I'm broke usually. Not because I think cheap is just better.
I would buy an adapter in a minute if they did not cost nearly as much as the entire kit.
In MY world, adapter money is better spent on a pipe and carb or a high comp head, not on something that is already adequate stock. Just my opinion.
Most newcomers to this hobby don't have the experience to know they do NOT absolutely NEED a sprocket adapter,
As far as tensioners go, a spring chain tensioner on a manual clutch bicycle engine is simply poor engineering. There is NO reason to have a spring in a correctly set-up bicycle engine driveline. NONE. The only reason to have a spring is to allow for tight spots in the rotation of the driveline
If it's put together corrrectly, a "tensioner" is only a guide, it does not take up slack because there is no slack other than normal chain sag. The spring is only needed when the chain gets looser than the correct amount due to runout or wobble in the rear sprocket. NONE of my builds have EVER needed a spring because there is NO movement in the slack, it stays consistent during rotation because the rear sprocket is properly centered. No matter where the wheel is, the slack is the same. No tight spots at all. Therefore, set the slack and forget it until the chain wears(about once every couple months with HD#41 chain) Any spring setup allows ALL the slack to pile up on the coast side when you let off the gas with the clutch engaged. Hang your spring setup bike where you can watch it while you work the chain and clutch and check for yourself.. ALL the slack goes to the loose side no matter how strong your spring is whenever you let off the gas and coast. You guys can talk all you want, spring tensioners on a bicycle engine driveline are NOT good design.
Ask any qualified engineer. Show him your spring setup and see what he says.
Just because it works does not make it the best way.
I would buy an adapter in a minute if they did not cost nearly as much as the entire kit.
In MY world, adapter money is better spent on a pipe and carb or a high comp head, not on something that is already adequate stock. Just my opinion.
Most newcomers to this hobby don't have the experience to know they do NOT absolutely NEED a sprocket adapter,
As far as tensioners go, a spring chain tensioner on a manual clutch bicycle engine is simply poor engineering. There is NO reason to have a spring in a correctly set-up bicycle engine driveline. NONE. The only reason to have a spring is to allow for tight spots in the rotation of the driveline
If it's put together corrrectly, a "tensioner" is only a guide, it does not take up slack because there is no slack other than normal chain sag. The spring is only needed when the chain gets looser than the correct amount due to runout or wobble in the rear sprocket. NONE of my builds have EVER needed a spring because there is NO movement in the slack, it stays consistent during rotation because the rear sprocket is properly centered. No matter where the wheel is, the slack is the same. No tight spots at all. Therefore, set the slack and forget it until the chain wears(about once every couple months with HD#41 chain) Any spring setup allows ALL the slack to pile up on the coast side when you let off the gas with the clutch engaged. Hang your spring setup bike where you can watch it while you work the chain and clutch and check for yourself.. ALL the slack goes to the loose side no matter how strong your spring is whenever you let off the gas and coast. You guys can talk all you want, spring tensioners on a bicycle engine driveline are NOT good design.
Ask any qualified engineer. Show him your spring setup and see what he says.
Just because it works does not make it the best way.
Maniac,
It seems like there are two kinds of people on this forum. People who can make a stock kit work (rag joints, tensioners, etc.) and these people
. The ladder often has to spend money on expensive, milled parts because they don't have the skill to make things like rag joints work. I am one of those people.
It seems like there are two kinds of people on this forum. People who can make a stock kit work (rag joints, tensioners, etc.) and these people
. The ladder often has to spend money on expensive, milled parts because they don't have the skill to make things like rag joints work. I am one of those people.firstly to give some background, I don't have a manual clutch. I have a centrifugal clutch. Secondly, I didn't build from a kit. If I had a cheap china kit, I'd probably say cheap china parts were good enough. But since I don't, I wanted parts that would last longer. You keep saying a spring isn't needed, and that the slack will transfer from the bottom chain run to the top. I'm curious as to exactly WHY, because you haven't said yet. Is it dangerous? will it cause the chain to bind (I don't have a casing enclosing my chain to my rear wheel)? Will it cause some sort of uneven wear on the chain? What exactly is wrong with using a spring tensioner? Since you are so adamant about it, please explain your reasons. Its true that just because something works does not make it the best way, but its also true that just because one person thinks its unnecessary doesnt make it a bad idea, either. As far as hub adapters go, a big part of the appeal is that they are pretty much bolt on and go, where as rag joints sometimes have to be played with. So yes, they do make things easier. As far as I'm concerned, its a matter of personal preference. You dont like spring tensioners, and think hub adapters are too expensive. That's your opinion, which you're entitled to, and thats fine. but it doesn't mean that others who choose these products for whatever reason, are wrong or that these products are bad. I've personally had great experriences with both, and just because someone says I'm wrong is not going to change what I think of my own experiences.
First off I have to agree with other posters knock it off with the oversized blue txt pls.
Second while I do agree the hub adapters are very nice to have I don't think they are mandatory in anyway shape or form.
Oh and I have the kip tentioner and I think it 100% overprice garbage I so wish there was some kind of return policy for junk.
The included spring is way to soft and fails quickly.
When I think of how I spent over 100$<with shipping> on that and how that is 1/2 the price of a new kit , and or 1/2 the price of a shift kit it makes me /facepalm.
Junk junk junk
There I feel better.
Second while I do agree the hub adapters are very nice to have I don't think they are mandatory in anyway shape or form.
Oh and I have the kip tentioner and I think it 100% overprice garbage I so wish there was some kind of return policy for junk.
The included spring is way to soft and fails quickly.
When I think of how I spent over 100$<with shipping> on that and how that is 1/2 the price of a new kit , and or 1/2 the price of a shift kit it makes me /facepalm.
Junk junk junk
There I feel better.
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I simply stated the parts described are not NEEDED, simply because the stock stuff works fine if installed correctly. Newcomers to this forum who read posts like this will go spend the hundreds of dollars because they read it here. Then they get upset when they still have issues and are now out hundreds of dollars anyway. This leads to hard feelings about motorbikes and a lost new rider.
Newcomers to motorbikes do not yet have the experience to understand which parts are truly needed, so telling everyone they NEED something they do NOT is simply rude and misinformative.
Lay off the "You MUST have these parts" posts and simply state your opinions.
I was not posting in response to any of your posts, only stating my opinion to the OP.
