Clutch cable and clutch adjusting procedures.

That rattling at idle can indicate bad bearings in the "clutch-pad-holder-to-backplate". Those bearings like some grease too. Its just a pain to get it in there without gunking the pads. Or there could be a bad pressing of the bearing race and backplate(they're Pressed together w/China QC) causing slop.

One time a used bike I picked up had bearing lash so bad the large gear was actually carving into the cover. You can imagine what that sounded like, lol.

I just re-found these .gifs the other day after being lost for at least a year. Hopefully they'll help people visualize what's going on when you pull the clutch

*Note* - I did not make these. I found and saved them from this forum a long time ago. They got buried in my "Bike Stuff" folder.

-This shows the clutch side, and all its components. From the flower nut to those 52('ish) bearings. The parts that are pressed are the backplate and the bearing race:



This shows the Lever side, and shows the bearing that the shop gremlins can grab if you're not careful. But when liberally greased is doesn't fall out... so you know you need grease when?


This shows the Countershaft. It is adjustable inside the case for spring tension. ie, you can make the clutch pull harder(if its too light-not biting enough, even with the flower nut locked right down), or lighter(if its too tough to pull). This shouldn't be messed with until the absolute last resort. I only included it as a reference. Unless you're tweaking for racing then search Norm's section. And forget you ever saw this if you're still wondering what a flower nut is from the first gif...


This cutaway shows how everything works together. You'll notice that the whole actuation to release the clutch takes less than 2mm's to fully disengage:



I hope these help people get an idea of what's actually happening when you pull the clutch handle. But start with the basics first. If you've read this far into the thread, hopefully you've already tried all the previous advice first.

Quick Tip- Even with the Flower Nut(FN) off, the countershaft will seat itself and only go so far. That's something to think about when adjusting/setting your FN. Like if you set your FN too tight, the spring is already under tension, so that can make your lever very hard to pull. And if its too loose, it obviously just won't bite.

There's a nice line that'll give you great bite and a clean release without having to use 4 fingers on the clutch handle.

gl, have a happy clutch,
Greg.

Wow! Thanks for all the info killercanuck. When I took this thing apart for the first time, the clutch plate behind the pucks had very little grease-- I greased it some more, but I'll take the pucks off and take it apart to be sure the bearings are properly greased. And I'll grease the bucking-bar bearing. =)

But even if I do that, it's still going to have the wobble that I showed in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp6A3sqpEqQ
And if I don't fix that with a new shaft or clutch base, (plate behind the puck holder) won't that cause bigger problems shortly down the road?

Everything is greased well, bordering on excessive, and when running I still have a rattling sound at idle and the scraping sound from the video, and a new development. Every once in a while, especially on small bumps, the engine goes HREEEEEESH and I have a brief, complete loss of power; I think this is the gears binding. It's only done it a few times. Either way, I'm not riding it again until I figure out what's wrong. I really hope it doesn't require any work on the countershaft... I don't have a good space at this apartment complex.

Edit: So to diagnose what's causing the wobble, should I take it down to the clutch backplate (behind the pucks) and see if it's bent, and if not, move to the countershaft post that's attached to?

oops, missed the vid earlier. Yea that's a weird wobble. With any luck its the pressing that's off kilter. Maybe once you get it off you can hammer on it with a pipe of the right diameter. Or you might have to take it to a shop(or friend) with an arbor press to get it seated true.

There's the option of replacing the whole thing. I could only find the completed assembly at gasbike, but they have them for $20 http://www.gasbike.net/bike-motor-part-complete-assembled-clutch.html

Thanks again for the reply. But... the "pressing"? =/ I don't understand, yet I feel like the answer should be obvious.

Okay, so I tried to get the clutch base (plate behind the clutch pucks) loose, but even with the pedals locked and hammering my ratchet full-force, then trying my hand-impact on it, I can't loosen it. At all. I'm going out of town tomorrow morning so I'll have to try my hand on it later.

I figured I'd just replace the whole thing, but I'll take it to the small motor shop first and see what they say-- I do like living literally within sight of a small motor shop AND a bicycle shop. =)

by pressing, I meant the parts that are pressed together. The back plate and the bearing race, I forget how many tons of pressure they use, but its a lot.

For getting the nut loose, use the rope trick. take out your plug and feed some nylon rope in there with the piston lowered. When you crank on the nut, the rope will lock the piston and keep it from turning over. Make sure to leave some rope hanging out so you can get it back out again eh.

gl.

Impressive pressure! I'm pretty sure it is the back plate causing the wobble. Wish I knew so I could order parts now...

I'd like to try that rope trick, but with the clutch plate off the clutch is disengaged, so turning the bearing turns the drive sprocket/wheel, not the piston... right? Sorry if I'm overthinking this before I try it... just yell at me if you like and I'll stop asking all these questions =) It's the nut that comes off right after the clutch pucks in this picture you posted:



I'm super excited to get this thing running properly and fully broken-in, I LOVE this bike! It's perfect for my area-- I can get around just as fast as with a car (speed limits and all), I get great mileage, I have fun, and I have the best parking. =) And it has lots of TLC in it.

Thank GN, I got the nut loose! But... now I can't unscrew the plate!


Full size

I locked it up by sticking a socket between the drive gear and case, and pried across 2 of the 3 prongs with a flathead screwdriver to get it off, which just bent. I could jerk on it with something sturdier, but I don't want to break them off. I took it down to the small motor shop a block up the street, and they didn't know how to get it off and couldn't get it to budge either. Can I ask for more input, guys? It doesn't look like reverse thread. Sorry for all the trouble... If it didn't catch and seize, I'd live with the noise and just run it until it dies an early death.


Thanks for any input =)

My bad, I misunderstood the design. Glad all I bent is a screwdriver! I'll have to order that tool, didn't get anything like that in the kit. Thankyou again GN! Think I should have it from here =)

Heck, I have like 15 of those puller tools and you can have one, heck you have 2 for whatever the shipping cost is as I pretty much started throwing them away after saving 15 never having to use one ever after 2 years and dozens of builds.

Drop me an E (not PM) with your address.
Better yet drop my web site, poke around and use the Contact form.

This is yet another difference between Skyhawk kits and the (barley) cheaper BGF and HT kits, Skyhawks come with all kinds of extra parts like gaskets, plug, plug cap, tank filter, and of course the sprocket and plug puller tools.

Those extras may not seem like much and wasted money, until you need one that is.
All these $150-200 kits could use improvements but in my book there is no such thing as too many spare parts with a couple of exceptions, the plug and sprocket puller tools ;-}

I'll hold off the generous offer for a moment, KCVale; I didn't really take GN's advice about using an arbor press because I had no idea the clutch plate was a press fit, and that was stupid. I should just always listen to you guys! =) I just took a run and asked the shop down the street if they have a press. Well, they have a huge one (5t, I think) so I'm going to bribe them for some access later and see if I can coax it on tonight. If not, I'll take you up on that offer and see what's what. Thanks guys =) The support on this place is amazing, I hope I can pay it forward. I'll report back!

Sorry, I guess it was killercanuck that reccomended an arbor press, but just for fitting the bearings and plate together-- as you said.

I have no idea what I'm doing. I guess I do need a tool!

Doh! That was for getting the clutch apart, not off the engine. My bad, should've clarified. Oh and *facepalm* for suggesting the rope trick... rag over a screwdriver in the gears works better Or if you're chain's still on, an allen key through the upper and lower chain locks it up good too.

No, you were clear, I just remembered incorrectly =/ And I actually ended up just sticking a small socket between the corner of the sprocket and case, worked like a charm! The nut was still ridiculously tight, had to hit my wrench with a deadblow a few times to get it off.

I swear guys, after I do this once and see how it all goes together I won't be so daft =)

I misunderstood and thought the clutch plate was fixed entirely by press fit, and that pressing it on further would remove the wobble it has right now.

i ruined my puller trying to get the clutch off the shaft.
locked the threads tight.
pulled really hard,instead of using gentle persuasion with my small swinging press(tapometer)((ball pein hammer))
and the threads slipped,pulled,galled ,locked.
i had a spare puller and used less force with the puller threads GREASED.
a couple light taps while pulling on wrench and it started to move.
i didnt accomplish anything .

it seems like my clutch shaft is not in the housing correctly,drive sprocket is too close to housing and clutch is running too close to cover.
rattles like crazy,i can completly deaden noise by putting hand on the clutch housing side cover.