Jeff claims them to be mopeds and that is why no dl is needed.
But a moped has to have a tag to be legal on the road.
It's a big ticket for driving a moped without a tag.
Issue on gas powered motorized bicycles was in the FL Freedom Newspaper
- Thread starter James912
- Start date
But a moped has to have a tag to be legal on the road.
It's a big ticket for driving a moped without a tag.
fl dmv said last april 20th that if its a bicycle no tag required or will be issued gas or electric.
You should hear this guy "Gene" on another site...
He won't post on here, cause he's a chicken chit!!
He's telling pretty much everyone to stop whining and that everyone should get a license and shut up! He's one of the VERY FEW, that during the 2 month period that the DMV was registering gas powered bicycles as mopeds..
He, of course, has a license and a tag on his "homemade moped"..
He's got this "holier than thou" attitude saying pretty much anyone who wants them legal with no license are drunks, idiots and everyone else (especially James) should just give up and walk!
He knows I can't respond to him on the other site, because one of the moderators was friends with a gas bike seller and banned me, so I couldn't discuss the issue... LOL
Mighty strong words from this guy who won't come over here to "discuss" with the rest of us... What a frigging PUSSIE (cat)!
He won't post on here, cause he's a chicken chit!!
He's telling pretty much everyone to stop whining and that everyone should get a license and shut up! He's one of the VERY FEW, that during the 2 month period that the DMV was registering gas powered bicycles as mopeds..
He, of course, has a license and a tag on his "homemade moped"..
He's got this "holier than thou" attitude saying pretty much anyone who wants them legal with no license are drunks, idiots and everyone else (especially James) should just give up and walk!
He knows I can't respond to him on the other site, because one of the moderators was friends with a gas bike seller and banned me, so I couldn't discuss the issue... LOL
Mighty strong words from this guy who won't come over here to "discuss" with the rest of us... What a frigging PUSSIE (cat)!
Jeff is not claiming them to be mopeds, just bicycles that happen to have a gas (helper) motor on them.
http://motorbicycling.com/f17/petition-legalize-gas-bikes-32741.html#post316467
Who knows what he calls them today.
And sure enough mopeds need a tag to be legal on the road.
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Yeah, mopeds need tags and a license...
I thought he was going to show us this proof?!?!
Where is it Jeff?
At the very least I would think we would want the wording changed in the currant law that shows an electric helper motor as being legal to also show a gas motor.
Terry
Terry
you are right and i have started a new petition to change the law on the definiton. i have my state rep ready to go to tallahassee right now with me with the gas and the electric motorized bicycles, but i would like to have a large list of names to go as well. this way i am talking for not just me, but for all who sign their name. i would like to invite all who love to ride the gas or electric motorized bicycles to check out my petition and sign.
Petition Change the Florida bicycle definition
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you are right at one time i was calling them mopeds. this is because i thought i was going to be able to convince the DMV to classify them as mopeds, so they could have a tag and you wouldn't need a license to operate them per the Florida Statues. I failed in that aspect and they remain motorized bicycles per TL-10. (which is the only Florida State Document that refers to the gas powered bike in a classification.) so there for a few weeks or so i did refer to them as mopeds. hope that clears things up. thanks
Fulltimer, I made that suggestion in another thread and you disagreed saying you thought you wanted to change the law to include every legal attribute about these bikes. What happened to change your thinking?
Speaking of legal attributes...
Arnett, sorry, but I wouldn't sign your petition as written. The intention is good but you're trying to over-describe the bikes. Just leave (Section 316.003(2), F.S.) intact and simply add, "...or internal combustion engine of not more than 50cc" after the descriptor for the "electric helper motor". Period. Drop the nonsense about pistons, rotors, number of chambers, clutching, etc. Too much moped type verbage to muddy the waters. Try and keep it BICYCLE 1st...with a motor assist, be it electric or I.C.E., as a minor. Notice the original statute just hit on electric. Not the wattage, battery pack, range, etc. K.I.S.S.
And drop the campaign speech regarding the oil dependence and job growth etc. Ineffective at best. You could instead argue as to the bikes being a viable, economic alternative transportation. Or their appeal to the physically challenged who can't pedal a bicycle without some help. Or the worker that can't afford a car, repairs, insurance, etc. and works just beyond the range of a daily bicycle ride without the motor assist.
Lastly, have someone with writing and language skills proofread the final copy. You're supposedly turning this in to lawmakers. It should be "letter perfect".
Wayne, your right I did change my mind. After doing some on line research it would appear that a major change to the laws would take forever...IF...the bill could get enough support to pass a vote.
That being said I also agree with your above assessment of Jeff's petition. What is needed is a SMALL change in the law that would yield a big change. That small change would be to add "a gas helper motor that is no larger than 50cc". I would not ask that the HP be listed unless THEY demand it. If it passed without the HP limit listed...woo hoo! Get a high powered 50cc and gear it down for the speed limit. From 0 to 30 in no time at all!
Terry
That being said I also agree with your above assessment of Jeff's petition. What is needed is a SMALL change in the law that would yield a big change. That small change would be to add "a gas helper motor that is no larger than 50cc". I would not ask that the HP be listed unless THEY demand it. If it passed without the HP limit listed...woo hoo! Get a high powered 50cc and gear it down for the speed limit. From 0 to 30 in no time at all!
Terry
The description you read in the petition comes straight from another state law in effect. If there is something you disagree with in the petition in how It's written then feedback is welcome, but *****ing is not. I can change the way the petition is written anytime, so if you and others would like to work on something different then by all means do it. Present it to me and I can make the changes on my petition. If you so like, but I am the one as of right now planning a trip to Tallahassee with my state rep.
here is a simpler idea. why don't we have it changed back to it was 9 months ago. 9 months ago the definition included gas bikes.
simple.
simple.
No such earlier (9 months ago) statute...
If you're referring to the old TL-10 document from the DMV, then that is NOT what Jeff wants.. Because THAT document stated (basically) that you would have to register it as a moped and then need at least a basic (class C) drivers license..
Not exactly what the majority in Florida wants.
The only "problem" I see with the 25mph speed limit (which by the way I like the 25), is that I could see people "fudging" the numbers when it comes to the capable speed of their bikes..
As an example...
Just TODAY, I'm riding on my e-bike on the sidewalk (yeh, I'm pedaling) with my son holding on while he's on his longboard, and I see behind me, this guy on an "Extreme Scooters Electric Bike" (The 500w model). I notice he's NOT pedaling (FYI, it has a "deck" to put your feet on) and riding ON the sidewalk.. So me and my son pull off into the grass and let him by...
I happen to notice he only has ONE pedal attached.. So I say to him, "FYI, Technically you're not allowed to ride that on the sidewalk under motor power."
First thing he does is give me a dirty look, second thing he does is says that he IS allowed to do that.. I explain to him, that Chapter 31.1995 SPECIFALLY states that ONLY human power is allowed on sidewalks... (Yeah I know all the bicycle statutes by heart). He (in a diplomatic/"nice" way) tells me to mind my own business.. Then I explain to him that he doesn't have both his pedals attached to pedal the bike which is required in the statutes, even IF he wanted to pedal. He tells me, that the other one (left side pedal and crank arm) is in the storage compartment and doesn't "like them both attached", because he wants people to THINK it's a scooter and not an electric bicycle, IMO, because apparently he would be less of a "man" or something stupid like that...
I then ask him, can I see how the pedals attach (I've never actually seen one of those bikes up close) and then he tells me one of them is broken, so he can't really use them anyways...
CLEARLY, here is a guy, who despite having TWO "issues" about electric bike laws, just decides to try to "fudge" the prerequisites by making up his own.
(I tried to show the guy the statutes with my iPhone, but he then had to "rush off, because he's late"...)
I know, not exactly the analogy to best describe "fudging the numbers", but it's close enough.
If you're referring to the old TL-10 document from the DMV, then that is NOT what Jeff wants.. Because THAT document stated (basically) that you would have to register it as a moped and then need at least a basic (class C) drivers license..
Not exactly what the majority in Florida wants.
The only "problem" I see with the 25mph speed limit (which by the way I like the 25), is that I could see people "fudging" the numbers when it comes to the capable speed of their bikes..
As an example...
Just TODAY, I'm riding on my e-bike on the sidewalk (yeh, I'm pedaling) with my son holding on while he's on his longboard, and I see behind me, this guy on an "Extreme Scooters Electric Bike" (The 500w model). I notice he's NOT pedaling (FYI, it has a "deck" to put your feet on) and riding ON the sidewalk.. So me and my son pull off into the grass and let him by...
I happen to notice he only has ONE pedal attached.. So I say to him, "FYI, Technically you're not allowed to ride that on the sidewalk under motor power."
First thing he does is give me a dirty look, second thing he does is says that he IS allowed to do that.. I explain to him, that Chapter 31.1995 SPECIFALLY states that ONLY human power is allowed on sidewalks... (Yeah I know all the bicycle statutes by heart). He (in a diplomatic/"nice" way) tells me to mind my own business.. Then I explain to him that he doesn't have both his pedals attached to pedal the bike which is required in the statutes, even IF he wanted to pedal. He tells me, that the other one (left side pedal and crank arm) is in the storage compartment and doesn't "like them both attached", because he wants people to THINK it's a scooter and not an electric bicycle, IMO, because apparently he would be less of a "man" or something stupid like that...
I then ask him, can I see how the pedals attach (I've never actually seen one of those bikes up close) and then he tells me one of them is broken, so he can't really use them anyways...
CLEARLY, here is a guy, who despite having TWO "issues" about electric bike laws, just decides to try to "fudge" the prerequisites by making up his own.
(I tried to show the guy the statutes with my iPhone, but he then had to "rush off, because he's late"...)
I know, not exactly the analogy to best describe "fudging the numbers", but it's close enough.
no the oine i'm referring to was under the definition of bicycle & specified that if it was under 50cc & can only go 20mph , bla bla bla. it was only a bike & did not need to be registered.
these laws that we are trying to change were only put in this year.
edit~~~~
i left what i wrote above to not hide my mistake.
i have a bicycle handbook from last year & it doesn't include a gas engine.
but the law has a different code# on it. so something was rewritten.
it will be hard for me to find an law that isn't in effect any more.
the only difference i remember was that it included gas & electric as a helper motor.
these laws that we are trying to change were only put in this year.
edit~~~~
i left what i wrote above to not hide my mistake.
i have a bicycle handbook from last year & it doesn't include a gas engine.
but the law has a different code# on it. so something was rewritten.
it will be hard for me to find an law that isn't in effect any more.
the only difference i remember was that it included gas & electric as a helper motor.
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I got the law definition for my petition from:
MONTANA
61-8-102 (2) (b) “Bicycle” means:
(i) a vehicle propelled solely by human ..... or
(ii) a vehicle equipped with two or three wheels, foot pedals to permit muscular propulsion, and an independent power source providing a maximum of 2 brake horsepower. If a combustion engine is used, the maximum piston or rotor displacement may not exceed 3.05 cubic inches, 50 centimeters, regardless of the number of chambers in the power source. The power source may not be capable of propelling the device, unassisted, at a speed exceeding 30 miles an hour, 48.28 kilometers an hour, on a level surface. The device must be equipped with a power drive system that functions directly or automatically only and does not require clutching or shifting by the operator after the drive system is engaged.
I changed a few things, but the meat of the montana law is in the petition.
Here is the reasoning for me backing Jeff Arnett's petition. What he is proposing is very good and doable. He has a politician that is already willing to submit a bill in the state capital. What I was doing didn't already have someone on board with the idea. There is also another person on here that wants to contact his representative about changing the Florida laws.
If everyone would just support 1 persons idea it would have the needed support to make the changes a possibility. Jeff has a step up on everyone else on the issue. Maybe it isn't perfect for everyone but what law is. He has the single best shot of getting something presented that we can live with. It, if passed, would stop the harassment of certain police departments also.
Terry
If everyone would just support 1 persons idea it would have the needed support to make the changes a possibility. Jeff has a step up on everyone else on the issue. Maybe it isn't perfect for everyone but what law is. He has the single best shot of getting something presented that we can live with. It, if passed, would stop the harassment of certain police departments also.
Terry
