my hoot gearbox survival method!!

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

so far my hoot has about 600kms on it, im guessing thats pretty good, im still paranoid it will blow up at any moment but as far as i can see i dont see anything that can go wrong(besides stripping gear teeth, or the clutch etc.)

anyways, i experimented with diferent oils and greases, i found that white lithium grease broke down into a liquid and made the clutch slip, i have a few pictures i would like to show you, i greased my gearbox 2 days ago, and this is what it looks like after about 150kms of riding,

as you can see the grease is almost completely off the gears, but i see no visible wear on the teeth at all, they look perfect,

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

now this is how i grease it, i grease it every 2 days of heavy riding, or once a week if its lite duty riding, all in all it takes 15 minutes and i kinda enjoy working on it, here are pictures of the grease im using and my greasing methods

there was one more picture but i left it out, i grease the bearings in the cover,

anyways this is my method and it has been working so far, i am still saving to buy a better gearbox but for now this thing has to last! thanks and i hope you can implement this yourselves, who knows, maybe this is all the hoot needed?(lol i wish!)

Bikeguy Joe · Nov 18, 2009

Now if it will just last to around 10,000kms.

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

Bikeguy Joe said:
Now if it will just last to around 10,000kms.

i dont think i would last to 10000kms!! all i need it for it to last until the drivetest is off strike and i can get my g2, so another month or so, hopefully, i can see making 1 or 2000kms if i baby it, im not sure, only time will tell, i sure hope it lasts though,

Bikeguy Joe · Nov 18, 2009

I'm thinking if it has lasted past the initial "destruction period" for these, it may well keep on going and going an going...10000kms is just where I would consider a reasonable amount of mileage for such a set up.

Motor Boys · Nov 18, 2009

Good job Linex mine has about 250kms on it, not quite treating her like you are but I'm happy thus far
Thanks Rob

Motor Boys · Nov 18, 2009

Hey Linnix email me a picture of it on your bike. I want to see your set up.
Thanks

RebelMoby · Nov 18, 2009

Excellent grease - use it all over the farm and on all of the bikes including the old old ones.
If there is no thrust bushing on the larger gear wheel you might want to add a thin wave washer on the outside stub shaft of the intermediate gear so it can not walk into the outside casing.

Motor Boys · Nov 18, 2009

That is a good idea as mine has moved and I had to move her back

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

RebelMoby said:
Excellent grease - use it all over the farm and on all of the bikes including the old old ones.
If there is no thrust bushing on the larger gear wheel you might want to add a thin wave washer on the outside stub shaft of the intermediate gear so it can not walk into the outside casing.

actually there is a bearing in the case, and the big gears shaft rests on it, here this is the pic i left out earlier, i grease the bearing there every 2 days also,

Kevlarr · Nov 18, 2009

A very good grease is called Super Lube, I've used it for YEARS on everything only problem is all our vendors at work have stopped carrying the grease and only have the spray lube.

Super Lube Grease with Syncolon (PTFE)

* A heavy-duty synthetic grease, compatible with other lubricants
* Non-toxic, clean and clear. Will not stain
* USDA Authorized - Rated H-1 for use in federally inspected meat & poultry plants
* Temperature range from -45 to 450 degrees F. Will not melt, freeze, or separate, prevents ice build-up
* Impervious to salt water and road salt
* An excellent dielectric. Will not harm fabric, rubber, leather, plastic, wood or paint
* An excellent general purpose and chassis lubricant
* Outlasts conventional lubricants by 50 - 100%

Nice thing is it doesn't attract dust and dirt like normal grease. Smear a little bit of Super Lube on a surface along with normal grease and after a few days you'll see that the Super Lube is still clear while the normal grease will be covered in dust.

Rockenstein · Nov 18, 2009

linnix13 said:
as you can see the grease is almost completely off the gears, but i see no visible wear on the teeth at all, they look perfect,

Ahh no they don't look perfect and despite RebelMoby's success that green wheel bearing grease is not the stuff to use on gears, it's too thin and it flings off gears in seconds leaving vital wear areas pretty much dry and un-lubricated. You should try and find a super sticky thick synthetic grease made specifically for open gear drives. I think TSC might have the stuff but I can't recall the name of it?? I know it's red and stinks really really bad ...lol... sorry but it's been years since I had some

On the gears in my HT I'm using Motomaster's Synthetic extreme pressure grease, it's crap too and flings off although not as quickly as that green wheel bearing stuff.

Anyway what really concerns me is the wear pattern I'm seeing on the teeth. Your only meshing about 75% of the tooth as indicated in the picture! If it were me I'd be figuring out a way to shim things up so it's all meshing better as it will live longer and likely be much quieter. Shimming the clutch bell outwards a little would likely be the easiest solution.

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

Rockenstein said:
. Shimming the clutch bell outwards a little would likely be the easiest solution.

actualy the gear was just loose because the cover was of,, i can pull that gear out an inch and then back in, when the cover is on it pushes up against the clutch bell properly, its just cause i was going to snap a few pictures quickly, but you know what i mean? the gearbox cover holds that large gear in place, but i will look for some better grease,

Rockenstein · Nov 18, 2009

I hear what your saying but the wear pattern on the teeth of the pinion gear is telling a different story. If you grab hold of the clutch bell can you move it in and out? Also I can see some scuffing on the inside of the gear cover where the larger gear has come into contact with it, as RebelMoby suggested a shim or wave washer on the end of that shaft would likely help keep it in it's proper position.

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

Rockenstein said:
I hear what your saying but the wear pattern on the teeth of the pinion gear is telling a different story. If you grab hold of the clutch bell can you move it in and out? Also I can see some scuffing on the inside of the gear cover where the larger gear has come into contact with it, as RebelMoby suggested a shim or wave washer on the end of that shaft would likely help keep it in it's proper position.

so a washer to bring the clutch bell out? the large gear cannot be shimmed, because the entire thing rotates in the bearings, but i could shim the clutch bell out i think,

Rockenstein · Nov 18, 2009

Yea that's what I was thinking...shim the clutch bell outwards for a better mesh if you can.

Was looking at the pics again and I see something else that troubles me...

Look at the thickness of the tooth profile pointed out by the upper arrow and then compare it to the tooth profile pointed out just below it. Considerable difference in thickness from wear already...maybe the clutch bell gear is not hardened?? I don't see much indication of similar wear on the large gear so that's kinda why I'm thinking the clutch gear was left unhardened. Anyway I bet if you could get those 2 gears meshing better and find a good sticky and stringy gear grease you'd be all set for a cross country run...although I'd carry a spare clutch bell or 2 just in case

Cheers bud

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

well i went out and had alook, your right, the clutch bell moves in and out alot, and the teeth are worn, doesnt look to bad but it doesnt look good either, but its all moot!! i sold my moped for $300 just now and im going to invest it in a better gearbox, so what should i get? now that ive got the money i want a 5 minute bolt on replacement, and thanks for letting me know, i would have never seen the wear, it just might not be hardened,(thanks china)

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

so the question is, how much longer do you think this box will last like that?

Rockenstein · Nov 18, 2009

If it were me I wouldn't give up on it...leaving it unhardened might be a good thing as it's likely cheaper to replace a clutch bell once a season as compared to replacing the other gears which likely cost more. Like I said I bet if you shimmed it up and got it meshing proper and used a good gear grease it would likely be ok.

linnix13 · Nov 18, 2009

Rockenstein said:
If it were me I wouldn't give up on it...leaving it unhardened might be a good thing as it's likely cheaper to replace a clutch bell once a season as compared to replacing the other gears which likely cost more. Like I said I bet if you shimmed it up and got it meshing proper and used a good gear grease it would likely be ok.

so as it stands now, with that amount of wear on it how long do you think it will last?

if i just kept riding it,

my hoot gearbox survival method!!

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