Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum  

Sponsors



Go Back   Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum > Motorized Bicycle > Motorized Tandems, Trikes and Recumbent Bicycles

Motorized Tandems, Trikes and Recumbent Bicycles Trikes (tricycle) and recumbent bicycles can give the ultimate in comfort for cruising on long trips or just around town. Ad an engine and they will really turn some heads.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-25-2014, 12:07 PM
moto-klasika's Avatar
moto-klasika moto-klasika is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Posts: 575
Default WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Hello,
Problems to choose, find, buy or build proper wheels for any of non-leaning light motorised vehicle were discussed on many forums and here at many threads... Maybe it would be useful to collect at one place many good ideas and solutions, and bad experiences too...


I do not have practical experiences with those issues, but collect and still collecting any information that I could find. I build simple HPV-qaudricycle for two of us (my wife and me), for cruising across and around Bern. Still have to finish and test it, so do not know if regular MTB 26 wheels shall be good enough. If I have to reconstruct quadricycle and especially to change wheels I shall need help to find simple and cheap solution.


As I could see on Internet, some people still use ordinary bicycle wheels on their 3-wheelers of 4-wheelers but, only for HPV (no gasoline engines or electric motors). I do not know for their experiences...


Bicycle's wheels (MTB or BMX wheels) on any multi-wheel non-leaning vehicle (lighter the better), there is problems at corners and fast curves torsional forces could be too strong. Could be said, with some irony, that issues are only with: axles, bearings, hubs, wire-spokes and rims! Tyres are relatively fat (wide and high) on relatively narrow rim - so, could be pulled aside at corners easily, if rim isn't broken before.


Axle: problem should be solved by attachment/support on both sides in bicycle's style!
Bearings: maybe not a problem, even quite small, they are quite good for both radial and axial (side-way) forces on standard hubs (balls between tow cones); so-called cassette type (ball-bearings), are more sensitive under side-forces...
Wire-spokes: could be changed, but too complicated and expensive way (should be imported) and done by experienced persons (amateurs or professionals)...
Rims: could be reinforced by some metal rings? Or welded another rim on side, that could be used as band-brake, or for belt-power?


Special, stronger wheels for 3-wheelers could be bought here-and-there, but are quite expensive, and are not available everywhere. The same, there is possibilities to build wheels from special/stronger components, but... (always on BUT)


There are a few models of heavy duty bicycle wheels that could be bought in USA, but often need some modifications...


Moped wire-spoked wheels are stronger, mostly with drum of disk brakes, but probably too heavy for light vehicle. Most of them have axles of 12 mm, so have to be supported on both sides, as at bicycle or moped...


Some photos as illustration are attached (look to me as standard bicycle wheels used)...


Regards, Zoran
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (1).jpg (32.2 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (2).jpg (128.6 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (3).jpg (143.1 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (4a).jpg (66.1 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (4b).jpg (57.0 KB, 82 views)
__________________
(part-timeBern, Swiss & part-time Belgrade, Serbia)"Full 65 years of life - right time to forget old dreams about unusual or DIY motorised vehicles?"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-25-2014, 12:14 PM
moto-klasika's Avatar
moto-klasika moto-klasika is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Posts: 575
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

... more photos with multi-wheel vehicles with bicycle's wheels!
Zoran
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (5).jpg (225.4 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (7).jpg (330.0 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg Bicycle's standard wheels (10).jpg (72.5 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Monster quadricycles (2a).jpg (187.4 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg 16736101eym.jpg (61.3 KB, 62 views)
__________________
(part-timeBern, Swiss & part-time Belgrade, Serbia)"Full 65 years of life - right time to forget old dreams about unusual or DIY motorised vehicles?"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-25-2014, 01:08 PM
silverbear's Avatar
silverbear silverbear is offline
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: northeastern Minnesota
Posts: 8,155
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Good idea with starting this thread. I'm giving the link here to my trike thread where I built my own heavy duty wheels. The information there may prove to be useful for someone else wanting strong wheels.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=47993
No doubt what I learned in my adventure can and will be improved upon. A good frame and strong wheels are the foundation for any motored bike project, in my opinion, no matter how many wheels are involved. Good brakes, too.
SB
__________________
Someday when I grow up I will probably lose interest in toys with wheels, but until then...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-25-2014, 03:46 PM
curtisfox curtisfox is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: minesota
Posts: 3,726
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Very good idea. Its sad Atomic Zombie had flanges for sale predrilled and ready to make hubs. They no longer sell them Silverbear and i got some just befor the went out of stock.

BUT on there site they have the how to lay-out and how to cut your own, and how they cut there's

I for one would like to know a little more on wheel building for strength............Curt
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-25-2014, 03:48 PM
curtisfox curtisfox is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: minesota
Posts: 3,726
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto-klasika View Post
Hello,
Problems to choose, find, buy or build proper wheels for any of non-leaning light motorised vehicle were discussed on many forums and here at many threads... Maybe it would be useful to collect at one place many good ideas and solutions, and bad experiences too...


I do not have practical experiences with those issues, but collect and still collecting any information that I could find. I build simple HPV-qaudricycle for two of us (my wife and me), for cruising across and around Bern. Still have to finish and test it, so do not know if regular MTB 26 wheels shall be good enough. If I have to reconstruct quadricycle and especially to change wheels I shall need help to find simple and cheap solution.


As I could see on Internet, some people still use ordinary bicycle wheels on their 3-wheelers of 4-wheelers but, only for HPV (no gasoline engines or electric motors). I do not know for their experiences...


Bicycle's wheels (MTB or BMX wheels) on any multi-wheel non-leaning vehicle (lighter the better), there is problems at corners and fast curves torsional forces could be too strong. Could be said, with some irony, that issues are only with: axles, bearings, hubs, wire-spokes and rims! Tyres are relatively fat (wide and high) on relatively narrow rim - so, could be pulled aside at corners easily, if rim isn't broken before.


Axle: problem should be solved by attachment/support on both sides in bicycle's style!
Bearings: maybe not a problem, even quite small, they are quite good for both radial and axial (side-way) forces on standard hubs (balls between tow cones); so-called cassette type (ball-bearings), are more sensitive under side-forces...
Wire-spokes: could be changed, but too complicated and expensive way (should be imported) and done by experienced persons (amateurs or professionals)...
Rims: could be reinforced by some metal rings? Or welded another rim on side, that could be used as band-brake, or for belt-power?


Special, stronger wheels for 3-wheelers could be bought here-and-there, but are quite expensive, and are not available everywhere. The same, there is possibilities to build wheels from special/stronger components, but... (always on BUT)


There are a few models of heavy duty bicycle wheels that could be bought in USA, but often need some modifications...


Moped wire-spoked wheels are stronger, mostly with drum of disk brakes, but probably too heavy for light vehicle. Most of them have axles of 12 mm, so have to be supported on both sides, as at bicycle or moped...


Some photos as illustration are attached (look to me as standard bicycle wheels used)...


Regards, Zoran
Looks like the wheels in picture #3 has wider hubs and would be more stable.........Curt
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:57 PM
moto-klasika's Avatar
moto-klasika moto-klasika is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Posts: 575
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

wheels-kinneri (1).jpg

wheels-kinneri (2).jpg

wheels-008.jpg

wheels-013.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfox View Post
Very good idea. Its sad Atomic Zombie had flanges for sale predrilled and ready to make hubs. They no longer sell them Silverbear and i got some just befor the went out of stock.

BUT on there site they have the how to lay-out and how to cut your own, and how they cut there's

I for one would like to know a little more on wheel building for strength............Curt
------------------------------------------------
Curt,
I follow Atmoic-Zombi's Forum and especially very useful Tutorials. I saw what SB done in that style: it looks simple, strong and not expensive...

http://www.atomiczombie.com/Tutorial...0Page%201.aspx

I am not sure, but I think that in similar style could be built front hubs, with bearings inside, but I saw variant where axle is welded, as for rear wheels (but much shorter) with outside ball-bearings...

I am not sure that I could calculate the length of needed wire-spokes, if know dimension of hub and rim? Problem is here that I couldn't find parts for bicycles, for instance stronger wire-spokes...

A pair of photos with DIY rear hub and wheel are shown, and a pair of photos of interesting front-wheel construction...

Generally, as you said: the wider hub - the better, becaus eof better agles of spokes. Also, the bigger diameter - the better: shorter spokes?Ciao,

Zoran
__________________
(part-timeBern, Swiss & part-time Belgrade, Serbia)"Full 65 years of life - right time to forget old dreams about unusual or DIY motorised vehicles?"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-26-2014, 07:10 PM
Allen_Wrench's Avatar
Allen_Wrench Allen_Wrench is offline
Resident Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,782
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Something tells me that useful stuff could begin appearing here. I think I will watch this thread.
__________________

"There is nothing wrong with wanting a motorbike that is an extension of your personal taste and fashion sense; if you must ride somewhere, I say do it with style!"
.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-26-2014, 07:54 PM
curtisfox curtisfox is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: minesota
Posts: 3,726
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto-klasika View Post
Attachment 74415

Attachment 74416

Attachment 74417

Attachment 74418

------------------------------------------------
Curt,
I follow Atmoic-Zombi's Forum and especially very useful Tutorials. I saw what SB done in that style: it looks simple, strong and not expensive...

http://www.atomiczombie.com/Tutorial...0Page%201.aspx

I am not sure, but I think that in similar style could be built front hubs, with bearings inside, but I saw variant where axle is welded, as for rear wheels (but much shorter) with outside ball-bearings...

I am not sure that I could calculate the length of needed wire-spokes, if know dimension of hub and rim? Problem is here that I couldn't find parts for bicycles, for instance stronger wire-spokes...

A pair of photos with DIY rear hub and wheel are shown, and a pair of photos of interesting front-wheel construction...

Generally, as you said: the wider hub - the better, because of better agles of spokes. Also, the bigger diameter - the better: shorter spokes?Ciao,

Zoran
Thanks for the pictures,shows good detail. The one looks like it is a motor cycle rim and that is really wide center hub, very intresting.

I have also seen on Atomic Zombie were they take a 10 speed hub that comes apart and put a longer tube in the center of the hub. I have a Enfield 3 wheeler trike it also has hubs about 1" wider hubs then a regular bike wheel.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2014, 04:55 PM
moto-klasika's Avatar
moto-klasika moto-klasika is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Posts: 575
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen_Wrench View Post
Something tells me that useful stuff could begin appearing here. I think I will watch this thread.
-----------------
Hello Allen,
As I said, I can't give some important contribution here, because I do not have any practical experience. I can show what I found here and there...
I will repeat that there is proper wheels for 3-wheelers and 4-wheelers, or special components to build them (axles, hubs, spokes, rims...) - but they are too expensive for most of us, and can't be find everywhere.

Some people, who are good masters in welding and machine tooling - managed to build there own wheels, looking quite strong, if not always beautiful.

At least, we could see what is possible and practical for us and what is not.
Ciao, Zoran
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wheels-twisted.1.jpg (50.1 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg wheels-twisted.2.jpg (34.5 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg wheels-wide, DIY (7).jpg (159.0 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg wheels-wide, DIY (8).jpg (201.9 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg wheels-metal-tube-spokes.jpg (336.0 KB, 58 views)
__________________
(part-timeBern, Swiss & part-time Belgrade, Serbia)"Full 65 years of life - right time to forget old dreams about unusual or DIY motorised vehicles?"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2014, 05:06 PM
moto-klasika's Avatar
moto-klasika moto-klasika is offline
Motorized Bicycle Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Posts: 575
Default Re: WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

... a few more DIY wheels, welded (flat or rounded steel spokes), some with double rims!
Zoran
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wheels, welded-DIY 06.JPG (258.9 KB, 70 views)
File Type: jpg wheels, welded-DIY.,.,.jpg (31.2 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg wheels-double-DIY.1.jpg (18.1 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg wheels-double-DIY.2.jpg (147.0 KB, 56 views)
__________________
(part-timeBern, Swiss & part-time Belgrade, Serbia)"Full 65 years of life - right time to forget old dreams about unusual or DIY motorised vehicles?"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
quadricycle, threewheeler, velocar, velomobile, wheel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
MotorBicycling.com