Looking for someone with experience with building an electric Schwinn Meridian!

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motortriker

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kevyleven007 said:
For a trike I would recommend a 24v front wheel hub motor, geared or direct drive and a lithium battery. Look around and you should be able to do it for around $500. or less
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One that is geared for about 15 mph tops.

Don't know how they handle with a front motor.

Maybe better or maybe not ?

Over 15 mph can get a little scary! :)

Trikes are different to balance than a bike but can be both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0IJgoj4chI
 
deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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In my terrain the 24v 20amp motor just wont pull enough to get up the hill without some serious help. At my age and with my heart condition it just isn't a comfortable ride. A 36v 20Amp motor does much better. On the next one I build with no pedals I will probably go 48v and 20amp. It won't get any help from me in a town called HIGH POINT
 
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motortriker

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deacon said:
In my terrain the 24v 20amp motor just wont pull enough to get up the hill without some serious help. At my age and with my heart condition it just isn't a comfortable ride. A 36v 20Amp motor does much better. On the next one I build with no pedals I will probably go 48v and 20amp. It won't get any help from me in a town called HIGH POINT
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I like the rear motor chain drive because I can play with the gearing.

Getting the right gearing for the hills and weight of the rider is easier to figure out if you can change the sprockets.

36v for my weight, age and hills too. :)
 
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KCvale

KCvale

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Feb 28, 2010
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A plus for a trike front hub motor is the weight keeps the front end down better, with my 6-speed mid mount motor the battery is on slightly ahead of the center of the rear axle and motor in the middle don't help keep it down much so gunning it low gear will cause it to pop a wheelie and spin in a circle.

About what happens when a multi-cell LI has a short (or open, or won't charge or whatever) depends on the BMS (Battery Management System) it has built in but usually it just disables that bank of serial cells with no smoke or fireworks and it will still even work in some cases with just reduced range, at least that's happened to the one I had on my Electric Shifting Cadillac motorized bicycle.
 
deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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the last post was close to my heart since I flipped a three wheeler i built backwards on top of me two months ago just now starting to feel like myself but i have arthritis in my back and hips I never knew I had.

Also it's nice to know a shorted lith won't go up in flames like a Boeing airplane.
 
Easy Rider

Easy Rider

Santa Cruz Scooter Works
Jan 15, 2008
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motortriker said:
The shipping regs are getting tighter on built battery packs so shipping costs will keep going up.

On the other hand cells to build your own pack are sometimes free to ship.

http://www.fasttech.com/product/1233700-panasonic-ncr18650pd-18650-36v-2900mah-rechargeabl

http://www.buya123batteries.com/category_s/1515.htm

A ping or bms pack is way harder to repair than the cells I showed.

http://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4-Prismatic-Module-3.2V-20-Ah-10C-Rate-64-wh.aspx

Cells with little screws are easy to change out to repair the pack.

These have little screws too and it is easy to change cells and repair the pack.

http://headway-headquarters.com/diy-battery-kits/

A small lightweight tight pack is nice on an ebike but on an etrike you have plenty of room for easier to repair and maintain battery options.
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I do agree it might be cheaper but what if you short out the series of cells and have to replace them? Then the big "your time making the pack" and additional materials for a box. I have 32pcs 38120 lifepo4 cells in my pack and they're almost $20 per cell. and I only paid $530 plus the whopping $200 for hazmat shipping.
With my luck...Call me chicken but I'd rather pay more now then a lot more later.
I've seen an ebike pack catch fire at the races and that was enough for me to say: "I wasn't going to be one of the guys that went up in flames"
 
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kevyleven007

kevyleven007

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Sep 25, 2008
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I ordered a battery pack from conhismotors and shipping was only $90 through ems and I got it in a week. 48v16ah with 2 connectors and a heavy duty charger with long cords = $450 total price( did I mention I got it a week latter)
 
Easy Rider

Easy Rider

Santa Cruz Scooter Works
Jan 15, 2008
2,145
7
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Nor*Cal
That's a cool website. i wish i would have seen it sooner. They have some nice stuff and bikes. I like their rear disc brake set up.
 
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motortriker

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Easy Rider said:
I do agree it might be cheaper but what if you short out the series of cells and have to replace them? Then the big "your time making the pack" and additional materials for a box. I have 32pcs 38120 lifepo4 cells in my pack and they're almost $20 per cell. and I only paid $530 plus the whopping $200 for hazmat shipping.
With my luck...Call me chicken but I'd rather pay more now then a lot more later.
I've seen an ebike pack catch fire at the races and that was enough for me to say: "I wasn't going to be one of the guys that went up in flames"
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The packs at the race track are often rc lipo batteries and it is not that hard to get them to burn.

Sometimes it is part of the show ? :)

I would suggest that if you are afraid of your batteries burning to use lifepo4.

Most all lifepo4 is not so easy to get to burn.

I have taken 100s of battery packs apart and found a lot of times just one or 2 cells bad.

The whole pack got thrown away because just one or 2 cells failed.

They are throw away packs, not meant to be repaired.

People do repair them sometimes but changing out soldered or welded together cells can be a pain.

Batteries like the Headway packs are meant to be repaired and are easy to build and change out the cells when one goes bad.

We weld and make frames and build motors here, this is Motorbicycling.com.

Buildiing battery packs is something motorbicyclists do too ?

Not as hard as building a strong wheel or rebuilding a motor ?

http://headway-headquarters.com/diy-battery-kits/
 
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M

motortriker

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KCvale said:
Motortriker, what do you use for a BMS? Does it balance the pack after charging?
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I am so picky about my batteries because I want them to last forever ! :)

Use a Hyperion 1420 balance charger to charge and balance them.

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-EOS-...&qid=1376408922&sr=1-1&keywords=hyperion+1420


It gets them balanced charged fast within just a few 1000ths of a volt.

Use lipo alarms to tell me when they are discharged while riding.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tester-Voltage-Buzzer-Alarm/dp/B005GJCJOA
 
kevyleven007

kevyleven007

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I have seen those diy headway packs. How do you connect the bms? to the + or the - on each series? They don't come with directions.
 
M

motortriker

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kevyleven007 said:
I have seen those diy headway packs. How do you connect the bms? to the + or the - on each series? They don't come with directions.
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I don't mess with the low cost bms at all.

Use a Hyperion 1420 with balance connectors to charge.

It takes a little time to learn how to use one but after you learn how to use it you have a great charging tool and charging skills.

My bms advice is to not use those cheap ones with just a few leds to tell you what is going on and learn how to use a good rc charger for your bms.

A good rc charger will give you way better feedback about what is going on with your pack.
 
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M

motortriker

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kevyleven007 said:
All the ones I've seen are for lower voltage packs. Seems like you would end up with a big complicated mess
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True that ! :)

The Hyperion will do a 14s pack.

My largest pack is 12s, 36 volt pack so it works for me.

It does become a wiring mess when people use lots of rc lipo packs to make higher voltage batteries on ebikes and have to charge them with rc chargers.

(so some just bulk charge them sometimes unattended and sometimes start a fire)
 
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kevyleven007

kevyleven007

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I've never seen those before. That's a nice charger for the money. If only it was 16s so you could charge a 48v LiFePO4 pack with it. Still, for 36v or less that's pretty cool.
 
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KCvale

KCvale

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Feb 28, 2010
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This is where I buy my batteries.
http://em3ev.com/store/

Paul (the owner and far smarter guy than me when it comes to this) is a great guy that will work with you and his site is full of helpful info about every part of a battery systems and even the controller you want to use to get the most from it but ya, there are a lot wires from a BMS, a pair for every serial block that monitors cell blocks plus an overall voltage, shut off circuity, and the charger hooks to it so all the charger sees is the BMS saying 'give me juice' or 'I'm done' so the charger quits sending power and the BMS proceeds to balance the pack cells after the charger changes mode.

As for 'do it yourself' race bikes sure you can cut out a lot of safety stuff and push everything to the max like anything else for that thrill but not something I would want to build to rely on for years day to day ya know?
 
M

motortriker

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KCvale said:
This is where I buy my batteries.
http://em3ev.com/store/

Paul (the owner and far smarter guy than me when it comes to this) is a great guy that will work with you and his site is full of helpful info about every part of a battery systems and even the controller you want to use to get the most from it but ya, there are a lot wires from a BMS, a pair for every serial block that monitors cell blocks plus an overall voltage, shut off circuity, and the charger hooks to it so all the charger sees is the BMS saying 'give me juice' or 'I'm done' so the charger quits sending power and the BMS proceeds to balance the pack cells after the charger changes mode.

As for 'do it yourself' race bikes sure you can cut out a lot of safety stuff and push everything to the max like anything else for that thrill but not something I would want to build to rely on for years day to day ya know?
Click to expand...
He sells nice stuff but his battery packs are built in a way that it is not easy to replace cells that go weak.

The bms will cover those weak cells and you will not notice so much at first.

The packs will take longer to balance when cells get weak and the bike rides will get shorter.

And they will keep getting weaker and at some point the pack just won't charge.

That is about all the feedback the bms will give you ?

The Hyperion will show you right away when cells or a bank of cells gets weak.

Then you can swap out cells if they are the ones that are easy to change like
Headways or these.

You can get balancers, solar chargers, all that for these and they have little screws.

http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...storage.aspx?gclid=CMPH-cHg5LgCFSdk7AodsGoASg

cells

http://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4-Prismatic-Module-3.2V-20-Ah-10C-Rate-64-wh.aspx
 
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