Piston needle bearings vs bushings?

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Risingsunn

Risingsunn

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Nov 24, 2012
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Good evening,
I am curious, when did needle bearings become standard instead of bushings at the top of the rod where the wrist pin is? I have a Flying Horse that I bought late last year that had a bushing that blew out. I thought they were standard for the last couple of years. Please let me know.. Thanks!
 
biknut

biknut

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Risingsunn said:
Good evening,
I am curious, when did needle bearings become standard instead of bushings at the top of the rod where the wrist pin is? I have a Flying Horse that I bought late last year that had a bushing that blew out. I thought they were standard for the last couple of years. Please let me know.. Thanks!
Click to expand...
If you bought a motor last year that had a bushing on the small end of the rod, that's not a Flying Horse motor. Flying Horse motors have a Japanese needle bearing on the small end.
 
Risingsunn

Risingsunn

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Nut, this is the same engine I have been writing about since November. Are there any other markings on a Flying Horse that would discern it from another brand so that I could be positive of what I have? If indeed this is not a Flying Horse then I am going to go back to Bikeberry and ask to swap the entire engine.
 
biknut

biknut

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Risingsunn said:
Nut, this is the same engine I have been writing about since November. Are there any other markings on a Flying Horse that would discern it from another brand so that I could be positive of what I have? If indeed this is not a Flying Horse then I am going to go back to Bikeberry and ask to swap the entire engine.
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I bought 2 FH motor kits from bikeberry last year. There wasn't anything that came with either one to identify who really made the motor.

I'm reasonably sure both of mine were FH though because I took one apart, and it did have japanese bearings in it. I don't think any of the other brands do. It also had a flying horse piston, which is different from other brands.

One unique thing about both kits was that the clutch handle was a different style than others I've seem. The locking lever didn't use a button like most, and the levers had red plastic inlay in the finger area.

Also the hand grips had eagles embossed in the rubber with chrome end caps that also had a eagle head on them.
 
maniac57

maniac57

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biknut said:
I bought 2 FH motor kits from bikeberry last year. There wasn't anything that came with either one to identify who really made the motor.

I'm reasonably sure both of mine were FH though because I took one apart, and it did have japanese bearings in it. I don't think any of the other brands do. It also had a flying horse piston, which is different from other brands.

One unique thing about both kits was that the clutch handle was a different style than others I've seem. The locking lever didn't use a button like most, and the levers had red plastic inlay in the finger area.

Also the hand grips had eagles embossed in the rubber with chrome end caps that also had a eagle head on them.
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I got a kit with that exact lever that was quite a bit better than average from my usual vendor on ebay. No possible way was it a custom built engine with japanese bearings yet it ran much better than average. It was the only kit I ever got with that lever.
I even asked the vendor about it. He knew nothing. Makes me wonder if the factory maybe mixed one of the upgraded kits in with the fleabay order...
(By the way, that kit ran so good I kept it and it powers The Pig)
 
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Risingsunn

Risingsunn

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Mine too came with the cheesy eagle hand grips and the red inlaid clutch lever. I wonder too if there is specific markings on the crank for Flying Horses. It seems mine says 7AE60 or something like that. I am really curious to find out if this motor is a true Flying Horse. I really wish they would have compared my old piston to the new one before they shipped it, I could have been done with this whole mess had they taken 30 seconds to make sure they were the same. Oh well.

EDIT:
Hey nut, you said at the Flying Horse has their own unique pistons? How are they different from others? Perhaps they SENT me a FH piston, and if my engine is not an FH it would not work or visa versa.
 

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biknut

biknut

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Risingsunn said:
Mine too came with the cheesy eagle hand grips and the red inlaid clutch lever. I wonder too if there is specific markings on the crank for Flying Horses. It seems mine says 7AE60 or something like that. I am really curious to find out if this motor is a true Flying Horse. I really wish they would have compared my old piston to the new one before they shipped it, I could have been done with this whole mess had they taken 30 seconds to make sure they were the same. Oh well.

EDIT:
Hey nut, you said at the Flying Horse has their own unique pistons? How are they different from others? Perhaps they SENT me a FH piston, and if my engine is not an FH it would not work or visa versa.
Click to expand...
A Flying Horse piston has the wrist pin higher up the skirt, almost in the middle. All the other brands have the wrist pin lower in the skirt. Power King, and BGF style pistons have longer skirts, with the wrist pin lower, than Flying Horse pistons. SkyHawk pistons have about the same size skirt, but the wrist pin is lower.

Another big difference is Flying Horse pistons are substantially lighter than the others.
 
biknut

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Greg58

Greg58

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It may help if you measure from the wrist pin to the top of the piston and post it here, some members have a lot of knowledge on piston measurements. That's the only way I can think of to find the right piston. If you don't have the piston measure from a wrist pin to the top of the cylinder, that should be fairly close.
 
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Risingsunn

Risingsunn

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It seems I am juggling too many threads here on this subject, and I apologize. I will leave this post short but try to be informative.
I received a entire replacement bottom end for my motor today. I took off the piston to check a couple of things out and see that this new motor they sent is very different then the one I bought. I am going to post the picture in my other thread about RMAs but the new piston rod and crank look to be much better quality than my original motor BUT.... It has a bushing instead of needle bearings under the wrist pin! Now I am REALLY confused.
It would seem I did possible that I did NOT get a Flying Horse from them originally and have been trying to install Flying Horse parts on a different make engine.
HOWEVER, if this new lower end is a true Flying Horse, why is there a bushing?
http://motorbicycling.com/showpost.php?p=467742&postcount=34

So again the question comes up, does a motor, manufacured in the Flying Horse plant in China in the last 2 years, have needle bearings or a bushing under the wrist pin?

OH, and one other VERY interesting tidbit I found on the internet. Did you know that Webniche Stores, parent company of Bikeberry, has applied for the trademark of "Flying Horse" as of Dec 19, 2012? http://www.markhound.com/trademark/search/3RcuJkM0R
That would mean that they could sell ANY engine and trademark them as "Flying Horse". Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM....
 
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U

UVsaturated

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Risingsunn said:
OH, and one other VERY interesting tidbit I found on the internet. Did you know that Webniche Stores, parent company of Bikeberry, has applied for the trademark of "Flying Horse" as of Dec 19, 2012? http://www.markhound.com/trademark/search/3RcuJkM0R
That would mean that they could sell ANY engine and trademark them as "Flying Horse". Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM....
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Yes indeed. I wonder how trademark laws work internationally? If the Flying Horse Gasoline Engine Factory in China has not trademarked their name, does that mean its open for anyone to trademark the name? I recently found another vendor in China making an almost identical engine under the name Woodpecker Gasoline Engine Factory. The company is even in the same district and city as the Flying Horse factory, but the company salesperson claimed it was a completely different company. I think it would be wise for Americans to build a database with pictures identifying the parts that these engines come with as there is no single reliable source of information on what parts are being shipped with these engines and from what supplier.
 
BigBlue

BigBlue

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Toadmund said:
The needle bearings in my Flying Horse were blackish, like here:
Scroll down

Maybe yours (1st motor) is an older model Flying Horse?
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That's what I suspect since I read somewhere on this forum that engines were made in the days of bushings or that the manufacturer is cuttings costs.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to answer the OP question.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 
U

UVsaturated

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May 15, 2008
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Risingsunn said:
Good evening,
I am curious, when did needle bearings become standard instead of bushings at the top of the rod where the wrist pin is? I have a Flying Horse that I bought late last year that had a bushing that blew out. I thought they were standard for the last couple of years. Please let me know.. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Several years ago I am told they changed management and because of this they made a decision to buy bushings instead of bearings. Later models then had needle bearings.
 
Risingsunn

Risingsunn

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Nov 24, 2012
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Maricopa Arizona
Well if you see my other post:

http://motorbicycling.com/showpost.php?p=467750&postcount=36

You can see the date stamps on the CDIs, my old CDI was dated May 15 2012, so unless they swapped the CDIs, it's under a year old. The replacement is dated Nov 8, 2012 and seems to have a better made rod and crank but also a bushing.
The bearing on the old engine is one that they sent me to replace the bushing that was falling apart, it is not an original part for that motor. So both lower ends had/have bushings.
 
biknut

biknut

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That's a real head scratcher alright. I really don't know what to think about it.

IMO though, Flying Horse hasn't had a bushing motor in the last 2 years.
 
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