Buying a kit for use in California(CARB regulation nonsense)

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Mozenrath

New Member
Jan 13, 2011
340
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California
Like my fellow Californians, I have to deal with finding a kit dealer that will ship to California. Well I've found one that doesn't say they won't ship to California, but I still have a question. What happens if the motor I have doesn't completely conform to the CARB's draconian standards and I'm caught with it? Can I be fined for driving a motorized bicycle with a 2 stroke motor?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but after searching this forum it's still not clear to me.

This is the kit I'm interested in:
BikeBerry.com

Actually, now that I look they say they don't want California residence buyers, but at the same time when I go through the checkout it says that I can pick it up at their warehouse which is actually 30 minutes from my house.
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,266
1,797
113
Los Angeles, CA.
There are several dealers who sell to CA residences... (just look at all the ads on the sides of this page.) ;)

It's legal to have a 2-cycle engine on your bicycle; it's just real difficult to import (& sell them) in CA. That's why many dealers choose not to do it. :(
 

Mozenrath

New Member
Jan 13, 2011
340
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California
Thanks for clearing that up! Just wanted to make sure I don't get a $500 fine or something. Seems pretty ridiculous because supposedly our state wants to encourage people to use more efficient transportation, and at the same time they make it more difficult.
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
264
63
living the dream in southern california
out of all the dealings with, and conversations i've had with cops, not one of them has asked about CARB compliance.

as Norm pointed out, they aren't illegal to have, or own, ride, sell, whatever, it's just getting them here.

every 6 months or so someone brings up the rumor that california is banning 2 stroke engines of all kinds, but it's nothing more than a rumor. the only restrictions on 2 strokes (to my knowledge) are on watercraft. and that's due to the oil/gas mixture polluting the waterways.

depending on where you live in california (and depending on whether they start stepping up enforcement) owning a 2 stroke is the least of your concerns. not having the plate, no M1 or M2 license and no DOT helmet are the main worries. better get them.

and before you ask, there is no under 50cc exemption, so go ahead and get the 66...:)
 

forrman

New Member
Mar 5, 2011
8
0
0
Canyon Country, CA
I spent a lot of time combing through the CARB regulation book and couldn't find anything that specifically states it's illegal to own, use, import or export a bicycle engine kit in California. When it comes to the police/sheriff I also found that their only concern is whether the rider is licensed, wearing a DOT-approved helmet, and is obeying posted traffic laws. Would any of you dealers like to post a response as to why you do or don't export engine kits to California?

drn2
 

showcaller

Member
Mar 9, 2011
69
0
6
Los Angeles
My feeling is that before to long it will be illegal to run traditionally carburated two strokes. I have written about this extensively being a collector of old outboard motors. It was Steve Wynn, (Yes the guy who rebuilt Vegas starting around 1980) who put the kabash on two strokes on Lake Tahoe when his wife complained about the noise being made on the lake in front of their home by the wave runners. Long story short - he commissioned a study that "proved" that running a two stroke engine in a wave runner for a day pollutes more than putting 80,000 miles a year on the family car. (or something ridiculous like that) The powers at be bought it hook line and sinker and Lake Tahoe as well as 10 or 11 surrounding lakes adopted a ban on two strokes. Evinrude produces the Etec series of two strokes that are actually cleaner than any four stroke out there but public opinion has been swayed by folks like the ones who run Lake Tahoe. The Wave Runner firms like Kawasaki and Yamaha weren't stupid. They went to work to develop super charged four strokes, so one of the ironies now on Lake Tahoe is the wave runners that are allowed on the lake are actually more powerfull than the old two strokes.

I have alot more to say about all of this but I do see the day coming where anything with a carburator will be banned, including our bikes.

Got to go do dinner!

Showcaller
 

Joemamma

New Member
Apr 8, 2011
16
0
1
Ca
Can you order an Engine and the kit separate. Or is it just the engine that Calif. has a problem with?
 

forrman

New Member
Mar 5, 2011
8
0
0
Canyon Country, CA
From what I've found, CARB has an issue with engines that are more than 49 cc, have more than 2 hp, and aren't fitted with Federally approved spark arrestor and muffler. Anyone else have findings to add?
drn2
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
264
63
living the dream in southern california
CARB didn't make any of those laws you mentioned. those are all traffic laws, basically, designed for "our" safety. and there's nothing about spark arrestors (unless used on off road areas, if it's allowed (most places it's not.)

CARB only cares about the emissions they produce.
 
Last edited:

The_Aleman

Active Member
Jul 31, 2008
2,653
4
38
el People's Republik de Kalifornistan
Yeah, California leads the nation in fart sniffin, everyone else is just sniffin second. It's unnecessarily tough for us manually inclined gearheads in some respects, but yet lax on others. Like $hort said in '97, get yours while gettin is good.
 

CaliRebel

New Member
Apr 4, 2011
74
2
0
Santa Barbara, CA
I'm trying to figure out who in state government I'd have to talk to about getting the regulations changed. With a proper exhaust emissions of uncombusted fuel would be almost nothing and compared to any other vehicle on the road their carbon emissions are excellent. Low power personal transportation should be scene as environmentally friendly.

California needs to get its head out of its ass because it thinks banning 2 strokes encourages more environmentally conscious behavior. Some people don't want a weed whacker sitting on their bike, but they still want a motor. It really is the same hypocrisy of restricting tobacco and alcohol but criminalizing marijuana.
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
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SoCal Baby!!!
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No one is banning 2 strokes in CA,
There are several CARB approved small 2 stroke motors in CA like Tanaka.

GEBE sells Tanaka motors with their kits. Do some research on how Tanaka
passes the CARB standards.

The Chinese bicycle motors will NEVER be CARB approved for CA. It costs a
lot of money too! Motors on bicycles is a TINY market that will never
justify any company getting motors approved by CARB.

Please do not try to talk to anyone in CA state government as the situation
is just fine the way it is and can only be made worse by any meddling.

What rumor did you hear about 2 strokes being banned?

I'm trying to figure out who in state government I'd have to talk to about getting the regulations changed. With a proper exhaust emissions of uncombusted fuel would be almost nothing and compared to any other vehicle on the road their carbon emissions are excellent. Low power personal transportation should be scene as environmentally friendly.

California needs to get its head out of its ass because it thinks banning 2 strokes encourages more environmentally conscious behavior. Some people don't want a weed whacker sitting on their bike, but they still want a motor. It really is the same hypocrisy of restricting tobacco and alcohol but criminalizing marijuana.
 

CaliRebel

New Member
Apr 4, 2011
74
2
0
Santa Barbara, CA
I was just miss informed. In reading about CARB regulations, I had heard about difficulties getting weed wackers approved, but I didn't know they had a systematic process for getting any engine approved. I'm not surprised testing would be expensive in proportion to the market.

If I were to talk to someone in government it wouldn't be about lowering the overall bar. I realize drawing attention to an issue is more likely to cause problems than fix anything. If the engines could pass CARB standards with a proper exhaust then I would talk to someone about getting some fees waved or lowered. Regulation that is merely circumvented by out of state businesses doesn't help the state in the end by missing out on sales tax and resulting in unchecked motors on the road.

It's a lot to ask for a small business break, but those that need cheap personal transportation can't support an industry that could invest in costly emissions testing. $25,000 is about all I could imagine someone investing in testing, but I have no idea what it might actually cost.
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
From what I've found, CARB has an issue with engines that are more than 49 cc, have more than 2 hp, and aren't fitted with Federally approved spark arrestor and muffler. Anyone else have findings to add?
drn2
I hate to think where your head was when you found that misinformation.

CARB has issues with any motors that aren't CARB approved.
If it ain't CARB approved you ain't allowed to sell them in CA.

This also has not much to do with EPA regulations and there is no such
thing as CA EPA approved no matter what some of the scumbag local
sellers will try to tell you. They are the same sellers that tell guys with no
license due to a DUI that they don't need one......yea, right!

PS: Da police have absolutely nothing to do with enforcing CARB rules.
BAR is the agency that does that. I have seen them close down a business
that may have had something to do with removing car smog equipment while
they investigated for a few weeks.

I only know of a few motors that are CARB approved.
 

Tyler6357

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
1,293
294
83
Santa Barbara, CA
Hi from 2016, has any of the laws changed ^ since 2011? If not could I still ride 50 and 80cc?
Yeah, they did change the law, you can ride on a 50 or 80cc, in fact, you can ride on any cc you want as long as it's no more than 4 hp to be considered a motorized bicycle.
brnot