Sprocket Adapter by Sportscarpat

GoldenMotor.com

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
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471
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california
Kudos to you on your UPDATED design!

Questions please:
a. Roughly when will this be available?
b. Approximate retail price?
c. Is your adapters approximate CB-E110 hub acceptable tolerances the same as other adapters- 1.522" - 1.528"?

Thank you.
Answers
a. Very soon, probably 2-3 weeks. Couple program changes and then a nice big production run. First run will be for the Shimano 110 coaster brake. From there the others will follow.
b. Pricing will be competitive. An improved product will push the price up slightly, but not much. Volume production runs will push the price down.
c. I have been doing my own sizing on the bore diameters. I measure hubs and find an average, then make the part and test the fit. As I gain more experience I will adjust sizing for different hubs.
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,839
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california
to answer some of Pat's questions, here's my observations...

1. i've never had Jim's adapter slip or move on me, so i don't think width is a big factor.

one thing i would like, is more lateral adjustment. i've had a few builds where i have the adapter as close to the spokes as possible to get the clearance and alignment i need. it just needs longer sprocket prongs. not much longer, just a little.

2. i like steel sprockets. i've got some aluminum ones that look like sawblades after only a few months. with a high performance build, they really take a beating. since most sprockets are for smaller chains, a HD #41 chain and a motor with a lot of torque deforms the soft aluminum teeth.

3. annodizing's always a cool option. i was gonna get one of mine annodized, just never got around to it. if i coulda bought one already done, i woulda paid extra. but, not much extra, 'cause i know what annodizing costs (if i had a workshop or a big garage, i'd do it myself;))

4.i don't think you need to make every size possible, but definitely more than just a couple. i ride 28's and 30's, and want one even smaller for flat out top speed, regardless of the low end sacrifice.

on most other bikes, the difference between a 40t and a 41t is about an inch of chain and 1mph, so every tooth count isn't really needed. i'd make common sizes, 30, 36, 40, 46, 52...

having the option to buy any tooth count would be nice, too, as long as the cost to make a one-off wasn't too crazy.

now here's some input from me...

for no other reason than to avoid controversy, i'd try to make it look a little less like Jim's. i know it's a basic design with not much room for aesthetics, but, y'know...

i'd make the sprocket bolt pattern universal. i dunno what Andy's, or some of the other makers are, but the ability to use a kit sprocket, or any other sprocket gives a lot more options. i have a 35t from, uh, i forget, that doesn't fit anything but a rag joint, even though it has 50 holes drilled in it. so it's useless to me.

with a universal pattern, not only could you tune your gearing easily, but in the event you slip a chain and mangle a sprocket (which i've done) you can still slap your kit sprocket on to keep you riding while you wait for a new one to ship.

with very few exceptions (mostly on older bikes) the sprockets are all standardized so they can be interchangeable and invites competition and variety.

i think that's about it...:)
Bairdco,
Thanks for weighing in, I appreciate it. I need to verify some dimensions but as I recall I did make the standoffs taller. Steel sprockets are doable. I need to look into pricing. It always comes down to pricing based on quantity. Same goes for the anodizing. Anodizing is a $80 minimum charge for a small batch. I will get a bunch anodized black and just add my cost to the finished cost. As for sprocket bolt circle I am heading in my own direction there. My choice of a 3 3/4" bolt circle is based on 36 spoke wheel measurements, basically finding a happy medium of standoff to spoke clearence regardless of spoke diameter. From there I used a "tape measure" size of 3 3/4" to set my standard. I gave this bolt circle a fair amount of consideration given the various available sprockets. Finally I just moved forward with my own standard. I would really not want to see a competitors sprocket mounted to my adapter. At the same time I want it to be easy for any sprocket manufacturer to match my bolt circle, thus the "tape measure" dimension of 3 3/4". No guess work there. Three 3/8" counter sunk bolts at 3 3/4" bolt circle. Easy. By the way the machined step at the sprocket teeth is required because I went with a sprocket body thick enough to handle the countersunk sprocket bolts while still being able to run a #41 or #415 chain.
Pat
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
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I've cleaned this thread of hostilities and I want it kept clean. If you have differing opinions that you know will cause an argument keep them out of this forum.

I was originally going to move Pat's first post to the Swap & Shop section because I felt it was a promotional effort but he's followed the rules of the forum and was not quoting prices but primarily asking for input on his design. Most of the posts were just that and I hope he has benefited from the advice and comments of the other members.
As for the arguments, accusations and diatribe, they're gone and any new ones will be deleted.

Pat,
My thought on sprocket adapability leans toward making your product universal in that I feel the majority of builders already have a sprocket/s that came with their kit and would prefer to be able to use it. I understand from a marketing standpoint that it would be better for you to be proprietary with your design but if people could use their own sprockts you'd probably reach a broader market.
I also agree with Bairdco in that steel would be a better choice for sprocket material. Like him, I've experienced premature tooth wear on aluminum sprockets and tossed them in the scrap where I have steel ones that have hundreds of miles with no discernable wear. Good luck with your venture.
Tom
 

msrfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Southern California
We're getting enough high end builds these days that an expensive billet adapter with the few most commonly required inside diameters that you don't have to disassemble the wheel to install will be welcomed by a lot of members. As far as universal fit, that would be a big plus for us that have kit sprockets. Thanks for engineering a quality product.
 

muddybike

New Member
Jul 31, 2010
124
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Calgary
I say forget the universal fit for sprockets(would be nice tho), make the part that clamps on the hub generic, that has inserts to fit all/ most of the hubs out there , then it would be one type of adapter to mass produce , and small cheaper inserts for the different hubs.
 

corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
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I have to go w/the last 3 ,a universal fit will go with buyers, where not being able to get or find the sproket w/the bolt pattern or size you need will turn away sales,,a adapter hub option for regular sproket bolt patterns would help every one with options and price w/out changing your 3 piece hub
 

msrfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2010
1,808
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Southern California
I've been trying to get builders to accept the idea of countersinking the sprocket holes like I did on my last 3 coaster brake builds. Like your new adapter, no bolt heads to hit the brake arm. I use a drum sander in my drill press at high speed to open the center hole to go over the dust cap. I will never trim a dust cap. Anyway, if you offered the countersunk bolts with your adapter with instructions how to use them, once it was determined which way the sprocket goes, it may help. Also, I was wondering how close the outside diameter of different hubs are? If you provide shims, they may be just pieces of shim stock, allowing for quick and easy assembly. Just my thoughts.
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,839
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california
Well, so far the feedback has been great! Thanks everybody! I will check on steel sprockets as an option, with the aluminum version as standard to keep costs down. I will enlarge the center hole on the sprocket from 2" to possibly 2 3/8" to give even more brake arm clearence at that critical brake arm first bend. From there I will bump the width of the adapter pieces from 3/4" to 7/8" for additional clamping area. All bolts are already 3/8". It looks as though this assembly will be pretty robust. A sprocket adapter able to withstand the higher h.p. applications with expansion pipes, better carbs, and higher compression ratios without rotating into the spokes. Stock engines will be no sweat. I will also look into the engine kit supplied sprockets to see if they are adaptable, but I doubt they are. I will address the hub diameter issue by just making hub adapters available in the various popular hub sizes as opposed to shims, and possibly supply blank versions to be bored to whatever weird size may come up. One final thought, I had hoped to add cool cooling fins to the adapter pieces and additional holes in the sprocket, but each step is additional cost, so I had to keep the design within reason. As this hobby grows and the market becomes open to a very high end design I already have CAD drawings of some really cool adapters that you could just stare at for hours. Nothing like a little eye candy!
Pat
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,839
471
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california
I am currently testing the prototype sprocket adapter. I quickly installed the adapter and went out and flogged the living s..t out of the thing on a Sportsman Flyer Deluxe that has all the little high performance tricks done to a 66cc Grubee slant head engine. The only concern I had was that the grease on the chain got my new sprocket dirty, otherwise it performed perfectly. After all, it is just a simple sprocket adapter.


DSC06070 by Sportsman Flyer, on Flickr
 
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Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
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Los Angeles, CA.
I think 2door is onto something with also being able to use the stock 44T sprocket on the hub adapter (if the customer should choose?)

You could also include with the hub adapter kit a simple pattern to mark & redrill the stock steel sprocket to bolt perfectly centered onto the new hub adapter!! ;)

Thank you to the mods for letting this thread continue. :)

*edit* You could also sell only the adapter & a pattern for people who know they want the stock 44T sprocket. (^)

I also have some ideas on how this could easily be made into a true 'one size fits all' hub adapter! ;)
 
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sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,839
471
83
california
I think 2door is onto something with also being able to use the stock 44T sprocket on the hub adapter (if the customer should choose?)

You could also include with the hub adapter kit a simple pattern to mark & redrill the stock steel sprocket to bolt perfectly centered onto the new hub adapter!! ;)

Thank you to the mods for letting this thread continue. :)

*edit* You could also sell only the adapter & a pattern for people who know they want the stock 44T sprocket. (^)

I also have some ideas on how this could easily be made into a true 'one size fits all' hub adapter! ;)
Hey Norm,
Interesting you should mention the paper pattern idea. I was already thinking about that. I have supplied a paper pattern to a number of people so they could accurately transfer punch the larger holes I always put in sprockets to dress them up a little. A paper pattern for bolt holes to transfer to the steel sprockets would work and I can print a CAD file 1:1 for this purpose. It would be up to the end user to do the transfering and drilling accurately. As for your one size fits all adapter, well you have my phone number. The more input we get the better the finished product. Like they say, it takes a whole village to raise a kid.......
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,271
1,810
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Los Angeles, CA.
I am VERY interested in using your hub adapters to mount the stock sprockets on every bike I build (& included in every kit I sell), & have the 40T as a simple upgrade option for the buyer.
I'll hit you up this week.
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,839
471
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california
Hi Norm,
I bet you have a ton of stock sprockets kicking around. Send them on up and I will index them with the proper bolt circle for my adapter. Those stock sprockets are probably $5 each and may just be a nice cheap source of sprockets for everybody. Fasteddy, as for an adapter for the Worksman drum I will look into it.
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,839
471
83
california
Thanks Pat, I'm sure that would be a small market for the rear drum brake but it would be nice if it can be done.

Steve.
Steve,
I already offer a drum brake hub on my Sportsman Racer builds. It is drum brake that is a dead on match to the Worksman drum. Only problem is that it is a 135mm width. I bet I could play with the sleeve spacers and flip the sprocket to dish it in instead of out to then match the 110 mm spacing of the Worksman drum. Thanks for bringing it up. I will check it out.
 

matthurd

New Member
Dec 13, 2010
817
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manchester NH
Hi Norm,
I bet you have a ton of stock sprockets kicking around. Send them on up and I will index them with the proper bolt circle for my adapter. Those stock sprockets are probably $5 each and may just be a nice cheap source of sprockets for everybody. Fasteddy, as for an adapter for the Worksman drum I will look into it.
that and i'm pretty sure my kits sprocket is steel, not aluminum, which from what iv'e read here is more desirable then aluminum for parts that are going to take a beating.
 

Tacomancini

Member
Mar 18, 2010
163
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16
Pittsburgh
Pat I'd love one that could work on a freewheel hub for my 5 speed. With your current plan are there any specific freewheels you are designing for? I should get a new rear hub anyway.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
Pat, here's a challenge for you. Try to make something that will fit the so called 'Three Mile Island' hub on the Schwinn Jaguar. The hub has a parabolic shape. Thinner in the middle than the outer diameter. Just kidding, really. I realize that fitting something to this weird thing is next to impossible if not at least cost prohibitive. :)
Tom