Don't let my wife become a widow. Help now!

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Geoinvt

New Member
Apr 14, 2014
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I just finished installing the new engine. It runs and idles fine. My problem is getting it started without dropping from exhaustion. I watch YouTube videos where someone starts his bike by just peddling a few feet and popping the clutch. That’s discouraging enough, but then watching the video where the guy picks up the bike’s back end and kicks the engine once to start it makes me want to pitch mine off a cliff. Despite my incredibly good looks and youthful appearance, I no longer have the legs or cardiovascular system of an Olympic track star. I’m therefore hoping somebody out there can help me before my wife becomes a widow.
So here’s the problem; to get the engine started takes an awful lot of peddling. Sometimes even peddling combined with a long hill. It doesn’t seem to make too much of a difference if the engine is cold or hot. To start it initially I’ll turn the gas on, close the choke, give the primer button a push or two (although I can’t say this ever makes much of a difference), and start peddling. The plug is a brand new NGK (can’t remember the model, but it’s one that’s recommended). Eventually it’ll catch and you’re off. Keep it running and you’re fine but, turn it off and you’d better hope you’re not at the bottom of a valley.
As far as I can tell everything is fine, no vacuum leaks, good CDI, proper new fuel mixture, etc. What could be making it so hard to start? Could it have to do with fuel mixture? I’ve been thinking maybe it’s the carb mixture needle setting. Its clip is on the center slot of three, just as supplied. If I move the needle’s clip to the lower slot would that richen the mixture, and is there a reason I shouldn’t do this? The engine smokes, but considering the fuel mixture I’m surprised it doesn’t smoke more. Should I try moving the clip to the top slot and try a leaner (right?) mixture, or will I just burn the thing up?
I’m not sure whether it makes any difference with these engines but, I’m not at sea level. The engine would see an elevation between about 1,000 ft. and maybe 1,500 ft. The air at this time of year is dry and cold. It’s been about 40 deg. F during the day.
My plan is to ride the bike to work this summer but, I’m not sure how long I could hold out. If someone out there in moto-bike land has a brilliant mind, now’s the time to prove it. If you can help me I’d be eternally grateful!
Many thanks,
Geo in vt.
 

Kioshk

Active Member
Oct 21, 2012
1,152
10
38
Connecticut
How does it run on a flat? I ask since you may have compression issues. Does the piston turn over easily? TOO easily? What mix? How does your spark-plug look? What's it gapped at? Personally, I never use the tickler, and rarely use the choke (only when the engine' scold, and the air is below 20-deg F. I'm @ sea-level.
 

Theon

New Member
Jan 20, 2014
1,440
6
0
FNQ Australia
Does it idle once started?
How fast is it ideling?
I'd be checking the crank case seals.
Whats the plug look like?
try a different, better than the kit plug.
What oil ratio?
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
is it a bike with coaster brake? these usually have very high gears that make it REAL hard to start - on these, I often change the front pedal sprocket for one with 39 or even 36 teeth
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
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Littleton, Colorado
Check your plug gap. .024 to .028 is a good starting point. Kit plug? Kit plug boot? Replace them if that's what you're using.

You mention your oil/fuel mix (ratio) but you didn't say what it is. If you're using the kit instructions telling you 16:1 that might be part of your problem. Reduce it to at least 24:1 or better yet 32:1.

What carburetor do you have? In fact you didn't tell us what engine you have but we're assuming a Chinese 2 stroke.

How do you have it wired? Don't use the white wire for anything. Make sure the black and blue wires have good electrical connections. We suggest soldering those and not relying on the kit push-on connectors.

Tom
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,271
1,810
113
Los Angeles, CA.
Another tip for starting 'hard to start' engines is to raise the choke lever about 2/3 up while pedal starting it.

Practice pedaling the bike with the clutch lever 'out' & while holding the throttle wide open, then reach over with your left hand & slowly raise the choke lever.
When the choke lever hits the perfect 'sweet' spot, the engine will instanly come to life! (^)
 

Geoinvt

New Member
Apr 14, 2014
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Vermont
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE!!​
First I'll answer some of the questions you guys asked, and then I'll tell you about what I found and ask for your opinions.
• Engine: 66cc China girl. Prior to installation I removed every piece of threaded hardware and replaced it with real stuff. Nuts and bolt are either grade 5, 8, or stainless, depending. Where possible socket head cap screws were used instead of slotted or Philips. Head bolts were all evenly torqued and everything was Loctite’d.
• Bike: 6-speed mountain bike with shift kit already installed but temporarily disconnected. Right now I’m running on just the sprocket that came with the engine.
• Runs well on level ground. There are no issues with compression. I haven’t put a gauge on it yet but it’s not easy to turn over without being rolling. Remove the plug and you can crank it by hand.
• Carb: stock NT
• Fuel mixture: Yes, I am using the suggested 16:1 mixture.
• Spark plug: iridium
• Gap: I set it to 0.024”
• Plug wire: the one that came with the bike.
• Wired: I’m not using the white wire. The other connections are made through a waterproof military grade, plug with gold plated connectors. I have no worries here.
• Idle: Yes, it idles nicely. I haven’t put a tack on it yet but I’ll guess it’s idling around 4 – 500 rpm.
• Exhaust: The stock exhaust was used however, I extended it about 18” using ½ copper pipe with a small lawn tractor muffler at the end. I don’t think this had any measurable effect on back pressure. By the way, while building the bike I was worried about how noisy it was going to be (lots of You Tubes where people complain about noise). So, in addition to adding the small muffler extension I also carefully and tightly wrapped the entire exhaust in high quality muffler wrap. Lastly I sprung for the extra liners that you can put behind the different engine covers. This bike is really quiet. Amazingly quiet. I can easily have a discussion with someone right next to the bike, rev the engine and speak in a normal tone.
So now here’s what I’ve done prior to getting your suggestions. Thinking that maybe, because of my 1000 ft. elevation and cold dry air, I was running lean I moved the clip on the carb’s fuel mixture needle from the center position to the bottom. This made a huge change in starting the bike. Huge. By initially fully choking, then slowly dropping the choke to fully open, the bike starts and runs like I first wanted it to. The only issue I have, which I’m hoping to get your opinion on, concerns the idle. Starting, and keeping it running, was a ***** before making the needle change but, it did idle better than it does now. I wouldn’t say it’s bad now, but I wish it were a bit smoother. It’s idling at about the same speed as before but, it skips or misses a bit. Also, when riding at low speed, it “chugs” or “lurches” and, unless I keep on the throttle. I’m guessing it’s a matter of not having a low speed mixture adjustment. In other words the mixture needle change allowed more fuel for easier starting, but too much for running and idling. And, if someone’s willing to give me a little more info:
• What do you think about the iridium plugs and should the gap still be 0.024”?
• What’s wrong with the 16:1 fuel mixture?
• From what I’ve read the white wire is a 6V power source for say something like a headlight. Should I use it? Anyone know of a light this will work with?

Many thanks in advance everybody!
 
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2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
How slow is "slow speed", when you say it "chugs". Anything below about 10mph and you should probably disengage the clutch and pedal. These little engines aren't known for their low end torque.

16:1 oil ratio has been pretty much proven to be too much oil. You can foul the spark plug and clog the exhaust. There's also the mess associated with an excess of oil such as it dripping from the muffler and generally making things gooey.

In my opinion the irridium plug is a waste of money on these little engines. They are designed to provide long milage, not improve performance. A plug costing 1/4th the cost of irridium will give you the same spark. Whatever, .024 to .028 is a good starting point.

As far as the idle being different with the 'C' clip lower; that is because you've slightly richened the mix. You might try just increasing the idle speed a bit. That will probably clear up that issue.

Use the search feature here and type in keyword, 'white wire' and you'll have lots to read and varied opinions on that subject. Many of us have no use for 3 watts of power and want more light than can be achieved with it. We cut the white wire off the magneto and throw it away. In fact many new magnetos are now coming out without the white wire circuit so you'll need to judge that for yourself.
Good luck

Tom
 

dodge dude94

New Member
Jun 8, 2012
1,017
1
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East Texas
2door has you pretty good there....one exception: the gap on an Iridium spark plug should NEVER be gapped. The iridium tip is very small and brittle, so if you gap it you run the risk of breaking it off and BOOM. 8 bucks out the door.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
2door has you pretty good there....one exception: the gap on an Iridium spark plug should NEVER be gapped. The iridium tip is very small and brittle, so if you gap it you run the risk of breaking it off and BOOM. 8 bucks out the door.
Exactly correct, that's why they come with cardboard over the business end.

16:1 is far too much oil. Oil doesn't burn, gas fumes do, hence why the jet is important to atomize the fuel.

Despite how it looks the carb intake does NOT go directly into the cylinder, it takes a trip down into the crankcase first to lube the lower end.

Considering the scenario I would:

Pull off the exhaust pipe and air cleaner for testing.

With the fuel off and no throttle pedal the thing up and down the road a couple of times with the clutch out to blow all the crap out of the crankcase as I suspect that is the problem.

Drain the fuel and mix it to around 32:1, 4 oz or 1/2 cup to a gallon to good new gas.

Understand that the primer button on the carb is NOT a pump, it simply holds the floats down in the bowl and too much just dumps it right into the crankcase depending on your carb level like facing at an extreme angle down in the front and it won't burn.

In fact unless the bike has been sitting so long with the gas valve off you don't ever to need to force feed fuel by holding the prime button down.

A picture is worth a 1,000 words, give it a try as it really isn't that hard ;-}
 

Geoinvt

New Member
Apr 14, 2014
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Vermont
KC - I checked out your website and was amazed at the number and variety of bikes you've got. I have a question though. It looks like you use a CDI which has a key lock. Do you sell these?
George
 

Geoinvt

New Member
Apr 14, 2014
17
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Vermont
Never mind KC, I found the ignition switch on your website afterall. But, your website also led me to another question. Some of your bikes use a small rear mounted cylindrical tank. You have one tank rack mounted and another mounted on the seat post. Are these tanks available through you? Thanks again, George
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
Hi George,
Thanks for the Kudos on my builds, I custom build MB's to fit each customers needs and budget for a living, those needs are surprisingly diverse, hence all the different type of bikes I have built ;-}

My keylock ignition is something I came with years ago and nothing special.
I simply refused to use the stock wiring from the Magneto to the CDI or the stock spark plug for that matter, and use nice 18g double insulated wire direct from the Mag to just a bit of CDI wire.

It needed a cover though, so I found some neat little plastic boxes that fit right over the CDI with just enough room to let the Mag and kill button wires out one side.





There was room for a simple switch but I looked for a keylock switch short and thin enough to fit in the box and found these.



All my 2-stroke builds come with the cover and wiring and early on I included the keylock switch in every build, but an option now as it adds more time and cost to the build.

Easy to do yourself with patience and the right tools and parts, I am actually doing one right now for one of my rare not pre-sold builds for a new shop parts run bike though I get at least one call a week asking what I have 'ready to go' and the answer is almost always sorry, no.
 
Sep 4, 2012
242
1
16
America's Hi-five
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE!!​

So now here’s what I’ve done prior to getting your suggestions. Thinking that maybe, because of my 1000 ft. elevation and cold dry air, I was running lean I moved the clip on the carb’s fuel mixture needle from the center position to the bottom. This made a huge change in starting the bike. Huge. By initially fully choking, then slowly dropping the choke to fully open, the bike starts and runs like I first wanted it to. The only issue I have, which I’m hoping to get your opinion on, concerns the idle. Starting, and keeping it running, was a ***** before making the needle change but, it did idle better than it does now. I wouldn’t say it’s bad now, but I wish it were a bit smoother. It’s idling at about the same speed as before but, it skips or misses a bit. Also, when riding at low speed, it “chugs” or “lurches” and, unless I keep on the throttle. I’m guessing it’s a matter of not having a low speed mixture adjustment. In other words the mixture needle change allowed more fuel for easier starting, but too much for running and idling. And, if someone’s willing to give me a little more info:

• What’s wrong with the 16:1 fuel mixture?
• From what I’ve read the white wire is a 6V power source for say something like a headlight. Should I use it? Anyone know of a light this will work with?

Many thanks in advance everybody!
at 16:1 you have OIL-gas (lean). You can change everything by changing your mixture.

I think at 16:1, and the improvement by raising the needle, you need more gas. mix up some 32:1 give it a try. Chances are you will have to adjust the clip and idle again though. I'd start at the stock groove and go from there.

the white wire is 6vac. I use a diode and a battery to make a 6vdc power supply. With the battery You can run a useful DC led light for a good amt of time. on its own with no help from a battery, the white wire has trouble powering a useful ac light, but can light small ones up. better than nothing?

Sounds like you almost got it now.
 
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Geoinvt

New Member
Apr 14, 2014
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She's running like a top! I switched to 32:1 mixture, cleaned the plug, and the bike runs great. Since it now starts and runs reliably I was able to switch from the direct drive back to the jack shaft. Its still a little difficult to get it started without the help of the rear wheel, but certainly possible.

Despite a cold rainy weekend here in northern VT, I couldn't resist getting it out on the road. It worked beautifully until BLAMMO - NO MORE CLUTCH. What happened is that the little screw holding the clutch adjustment nut in place vibrated its way out. This allowed the adjustment nut to thread off. The screw ended up being pushed through the cover as the nut came loose. New parts are now on order and she'll be back in operation soon.

I replaced and Loctite'd every single nut, bolt, and stud on the engine, except for this one. This one never occurred to me. My plan for the repair is to replace the screw with one that's drilled for a safety wire. I'll then drill and tap for a second screw close to the first. The two will then be safety wired together. This will lock the two screws in place and prevent another disaster. There's not a lot of clearance under the cover but it can be done with care.

Thanks to everyone for your help in getting the bike up an running.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
First off, welcome to the forum. I'm glad you've gotten things squared away.

I wanted to comment on how helpful your questions were... clear and gave lots of information. You listened well, took advice and made it work. When someone yells help the good folks here want to come to the rescue, but without the right questions and a willingness to listen to the answers it makes it hard to lend a hand.

Reading all of the good advice from our members makes me proud to be a part of this forum. Glad you found us. Have fun riding!
SB
 

TakeiT

Member
Apr 17, 2014
128
1
16
Oshawa, Ontario
This may sound odd, but remove the clutch cover, drive the bike, then pop the clutch. If the silver disk spins, but the big gear doesn't (constantly) then your clutch is slipping and should be tightened. It used to take me FOREVER to start my bike, I had to use starting fluid etc. But after doing that she fires right up!