Travel Law

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rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
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In participation in a thread on bicycle related law in California, a member took exception to my post regarding law as being off topic.
My apologies, and I shall endeavor to begin a separate thread regarding law pertaining to travel within our United States...

Because I think MABs are neato, I think everyone should have one available and use it, and I feel it will help lessen the pain of high priced short distance travel! and they are FUN !
Please, no politics! I realize it's an American tradition to discuss politics so we can all continue to get along so well, but I would prefer to discuss the Law herein, especially as it may apply to an individuals choice of a bicycle for personal use, as opposed to something that consumes significantly more fuel and therefore more expensive to operate. What is commonly presented to us as 'law' is only statutes, ordinances, and codes which may NOT have sound bearings within Law.

Here's a clip from a site identified below...

Cops take an oath of honor (To get their DPSST Certifcation) in which they swear to uphold the Constitution, amongst other things. That is the Supreme Law of the Land. But then they are instructed to violate the Citizens "Right to Travel," unfettered. They assume the roll of corporate revenue agent by citing people with violations of the commercial traffic laws. There are ample case laws, to support this maxim of law. Take for instance Kent v. Dulles 357 U.S. 116, Thompson v. Smith 154 SE 579, Hertado v. California 110 U.S. 516, and Miller v U.S., 230 F 2d 486, 489. I suggest that people study these and many more case histories concerning the Right to Travel.

The police are not intentionally violating the Citizens rights, as they are duped into beleiving that they are enforcing the law, and doing their jobs. But their superiors know this and will not inform the policeman of this felonious act or it will sever their cash cow in the jugular. Other U.S. court cases that confirm and point out the difference between the "right" of the citizen to travel and a government "privilege" are - Barney v Board of Railroad Commissioners; State v City of Spokane, 186 P. 864; Ex Parte Dickey (Dickey v Davis), 85 S.E. 781; Teche Lines v Danforth, 12 So.2d 784.

Folks, when you were fraudulantly compelled to acquire that "Driver's License," without being told that you don't need one to "Travel," you surrendered your right, and gave jurisdiction to the State to regulate your every move through contract law, or administrative law. Officer's can do what they do, as long as you have that License to drive. Do not give them juridiction. By the way, I suggest that all law enforcement research my information, as they are in violation of Title 18, section 241, 242, and Title 42 section 14141, amongst other's.

Basically, we're all lied to. We are all comitting offenses without knowing it. Cops, Civilians, and kids alike. "Driving," is a commercial act as is "Operating a Motor Vehicle." "Motor Vehicle," as defined in Blacks Law, 4th Ed., is a taxi, omnibus or any variey of motor vehicles exclusively used and designed for commerce.

Don't take my word for it, research it yourself. Just enter Right to Travel in your search window, and study the Law. One more thing, Other U.S. court cases that confirm and point out the difference between the "right" of the citizen to travel and a government "privilege" are - Barney v Board of Railroad Commissioners; State v City of Spokane, 186 P. 864; Ex Parte Dickey (Dickey v Davis), 85 S.E. 781; Teche Lines v Danforth, 12 So.2d 784. One more thing, Marbury v. Madison, 5 US 137 (1803) states that The Constitution of these United States is the supreme law of the land. Any law that is repugnant to the Constitution of America is null and void.

Murdock v. Penn., 319 US 105 (1943)
No State shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and attach a fee to it.

Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham, 373 US 262 (1963)
If the State converts a liberty into a privilege, the Citizen can engage in the right with impunity.

Byars v. U.S., 273 US 28 (1927)
Unlawful search and seizure, your rights must be interpreted in favor of the Citizen.

Norton v. Shelby County, 118 US 425 (1886)
An unconstitutional act is not law, it confers no rights, it imposes no duties, affords no protection, it creates no office.
It is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never passed.

Miller v. U.S., 230 F. 2nd. 486, 489 (5th Cir. 1959) Id. at 489-490
The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.

And finally just for laugths, Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436 (1966)
Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation, which would abrogate them.
Have a nice day.

"An action by Department of Motor Vehicles, whether directly or through a court sitting administratively as the hearing officer, must be clearly defined in the statute before it has subject matter jurisdiction, without such jurisdiction of the licensee, all acts of the agency, by its employees, agents, hearing officers, are null and void."
Doolan v. Carr, 125 US 618; City v Pearson, 181 Cal. 640.

"Agency, or party sitting for the agency, (which would be the magistrate of a municipal court) has no authority to enforce as to any licensee unless he is acting for compensation. Such an act is highly penal in nature, and should not be construed to include anything which is not embraced within its terms. (Where) there is no charge within a complaint that the accused was employed for compensation to do the act complained of, or that the act constituted part of a contract."
Schomig v. Kaiser, 189 Cal 596.

"When acting to enforce a statute and its subsequent amendments to the present date, the judge of the municipal court is acting as an administrative officer and not in a judicial capacity; courts in administering or enforcing statutes do not act judicially, but merely ministerially".
Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 583.

"A judge ceases to sit as a judicial officer because the governing principle of administrative law provides that courts are prohibited from substituting their evidence, testimony, record, arguments, and rationale for that of the agency. Additionally, courts are prohibited from substituting their judgment for that of the agency. Courts in administrative issues are prohibited from even listening to or hearing arguments, presentation, or rational."
ASIS v. US, 568 F2d 284.

"Ministerial officers are incompetent to receive grants of judicial power from the legislature, their acts in attempting to exercise such powers are necessarily nullities." Burns v. Sup. Ct., SF, 140 Cal. 1.

"The elementary doctrine that the constitutionality of a legislative act is open to attack only by persons whose rights are affected thereby, applies to statute relating to administrative agencies, the validity of which may not be called into question in the absence of a showing of substantial harm, actual or impending, to a legally protected
interest directly resulting from the enforcement of the statute."
Board of Trade v. Olson, 262 US 1; 29 ALR 2d 105.

rc
 

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
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Lake Worth
Let me take a stab in the dark....
OP, Do you currently have one of those "illegal/unneeded" driver's licenses?
If not, why don't you have it anymore?
I'm just asking, because it seems the only time this subject matter is brought up, it's only by those without a drivers license?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Once you answer those questions for me, I have a few more to add as discussion points, but I can't until I get your answer(s).
P.S. I do NOT currently have a drivers license myself.
 
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rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
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Left coast
Hi Sangesf,


Let me take a stab in the dark....
q. OP, Do you currently have one of those "illegal/unneeded" driver's icenses?
Yes, I have a California license.
Reason? I drove a company vehicle for profit.
q. If not, why don't you have it anymore?
License is valid, clear, no wants or warrants, clean record, etc.
q. I'm just asking, because it seems the only time this subject matter is brought up, it's only by those without a drivers license?
Things are rarely what they seem to be :)

Inquiring minds want to know...

Certainly!
rc
 

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
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0
Lake Worth
Well if you have a license, you have the right to use any and all public roads available...
So your right to travel is NOT limited.. So I don't understand the point of your post?
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
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Left coast
Hey SANGESF,

My point?
Well, the plot thickens... :)

Back a few years, when I was younger and had more energy, I sent the license back to them because I did not need it. Tossed the motor vehicle plates in the trash and went about my affairs. For 15 years.
Was able to travel just fine without that contract, and the vehicles performed quite well without the plate on them. I couldn't really tell any difference.

Constabulary I encountered from time to time did not quite see it that way, and I was occasionally invited into the court system, to be sure.

Downtown, the municipal clerks in the black robes never took kindly to someone who took exception to their money-making scheme and they generally squashed me like a bug.

So I began reading more lawbooks and court procedure books and got fairly good at writing the legal briefs after a while... even sent appeals up to the higher level district courts.
THEY squashed me like a bug!

About that point I ran out of money, well, the whole economy kinda took a dump and money was scarce all around, (that was back when greenspan told bush1, "NO" ), and I had more kids to feed and could not devote so much time and energy to legal research. I had to take my licks and get back to the business of keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table with a lower profile. (stealth)

My point?

It is wrong that illicit statutes, ordinances, codes, and the fees and taxes forced upon us by them are implemented against our freedom and liberty assured to us in law.

There's just no way I can accept such crime against us.

In part because I failed, taxes have increased since that time, and fees have multiplied to an extent where they are beyond the capability of many individuals who could otherwise contribute to our society without looking over their shoulder constantly and living in fear of arrest and incarceration simply because they lack a few more dollars.

My greatest regret is that it shall be worse for our children.

It would be a good thing if all people would not accept this violation of law and contested their case each and every time in the court system.
In the least, it would take the profit out of it for them because the system would be swamped within a week.

Best
rc
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
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Left coast
For example:

I just viewed a video posted by another member here.
He used a briggs 5hp and torque converter on his MAB.

What a neat video!

The torque and brisk response seemed to be so much superior to the HT class engines, it was amazing! and they probably get great results for the fuel consumed compared with an auto, too !

...Yet the ordinances have demanded we be restricted to electric power less than 20mph, or petrol power less than 50cc, 2hp, and 30mph ???
THAT, is political, not to mention an absolute travesty.

Those wawatosa engines are all over the place, and cheep!
but they won't allow us to use them? ...without paying fees???

It's just WRONG.
rc
 

Fulltimer

New Member
Aug 13, 2010
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My little stab in the dark: are you one of the people that THINK you come under the Maritime Law? Do you consider yourself a "sovereign citizen"?
Terry
 
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jburr36

Member
Jul 17, 2008
285
0
16
Idaho
For example:

I just viewed a video posted by another member here.
He used a briggs 5hp and torque converter on his MAB.

What a neat video!

The torque and brisk response seemed to be so much superior to the HT class engines, it was amazing! and they probably get great results for the fuel consumed compared with an auto, too !

...Yet the ordinances have demanded we be restricted to electric power less than 20mph, or petrol power less than 50cc, 2hp, and 30mph ???
THAT, is political, not to mention an absolute travesty.

Those wawatosa engines are all over the place, and cheep!
but they won't allow us to use them? ...without paying fees???

It's just WRONG.
rc
umm.. one can put a V-8 engine with chrome headers on their bikes and ride it all they want on private property. but when it comes to public roadways where the safety of others are concerned then absolutely they wil regulate what people drive. they put limitations on what kind of propulsion (no jet turbine engines) and the thrust torque on bikes because of the pure physical limitations the frames, braking systems, wheel bearings, etc that the bike can safely sustain.

As for the fees, it costs money to build and maintain our roadways. I see no problem paying taxes and fees for something I benefit from.
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
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Left coast
My little stab in the dark: are you one of the people that THINK you come under the Maritime Law? Do you consider yourself a "sovereign citizen"?
Terry

LoL

Hey Terry!
Another stab? :)
Gosh, I'm feeling like Caesar! ...Et tu Brutae? LoL

'one of those people' ???
I guess... I'm too big to hide and too fat to run, if that's what you mean!
and I always like motorcycles and dirtbikes, hotrods and airplanes, used to shoot guns and drink beer, listen to the Reverend Horton Heat, Southern Culture on the Skids, and David Allan Coe... Now I'm just old, wore out, and gray!

Like I had said earlier, it's been a long time since I did all that legal study, back when... I recall reading some stuff about the laws of admiralty and the laws of the land. ...Whew! You got my two remaining brain cells working furiously now... Is that in the declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation??? One of the complaints of the colonists was that King George had treated them unfairly and allowed the laws of admiralty to encroach upon the law of the land. Is that correct? I forget...
What do you know about that, Terry?

Ha! Ha!

I DO remember that 'sovereign citizen' stuff !
That was what the founding fathers envisioned the american's to be... Y'know, like the Jeffersonian concept of the 'yeoman farmer' clothed in all his rights granted by God...

I know 1 thing... and I don't THINK it...
It's fairly simple, and straightforward.

A sovereign, without an army, is deposed.

That's pretty much a primary lesson that can be learned from history.

Fun stuff, reading history books, and law books !

Best
rc
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
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Left coast
umm.. one can put a V-8 engine with chrome headers on their bikes and ride it all they want on private property. but when it comes to public roadways where the safety of others are concerned then absolutely they wil regulate what people drive. they put limitations on what kind of propulsion (no jet turbine engines) and the thrust torque on bikes because of the pure physical limitations the frames, braking systems, wheel bearings, etc that the bike can safely sustain.

As for the fees, it costs money to build and maintain our roadways. I see no problem paying taxes and fees for something I benefit from.
Well OK JB !
The roads are not much more than developments of the old trails and travel routes folks always used, perhaps improved some for commerce and postal routes and such.
Did you ever take the time to review the Northwest Ordinance treaty?
(You DO know treaties supercede all laws, right?)
It's quite clear within that document that travel upon the Mississippi shall be free, forever... and that's what the Mississippi was... a travel route. That's how folks got around, back then... And all those freeways, hi-ways, and streets are simply 'rivers of tar', each in turn, connected to that Mississippi River for use of the general public to travel upon, unencumbered by fee or tariff.

It DOES get a little different when someone wants to go out and make a buck, by using the roads of the travelling public, to earn money for themselves... It's been decided by the courts that no one has a right to use public property commercially... unless they first pay specific fees and levies to be determined by the legislature.

But I'd like to ask you, JB, Why is it that you are adverse to someone using a v8 engine for their MAB ?

Wouldn't bother me... Long as they didn't threaten me or act like an idiot by putting others in peril.

But we don't need the dmv regs to deal with idiots... any peace officer could just drag them before a suitable court for disturbing the peace, to answer for his actions.

I think you might be quite surprised where the money from registration fees and that stuff actually goes. Most of it goes to the department itself, then most of whats left goes to other agencies.
You can find the info out there on the web if you want to look for it. All that is public record.

Best
rc

BTW, if you get time, would you have a look at the video on YouTube of Jay Leno cruising through the valley on his jet bike ?
Very, very nice machine.
I LIKE IT !
I LIKE IT A LOT!
:)
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
umm.. one can put a V-8 engine with chrome headers on their bikes and ride it all they want on private property. but when it comes to public roadways where the safety of others are concerned then absolutely they wil regulate what people drive. they put limitations on what kind of propulsion (no jet turbine engines) and the thrust torque on bikes because of the pure physical limitations the frames, braking systems, wheel bearings, etc that the bike can safely sustain.

As for the fees, it costs money to build and maintain our roadways. I see no problem paying taxes and fees for something I benefit from.
Well OK JB !
The roads are not much more than developments of the old trails and travel routes folks always used, perhaps improved some for commerce and postal routes and such.
Did you ever take the time to review the Northwest Ordinance treaty?
(You DO know treaties supercede all laws, right?)
It's quite clear within that document that travel upon the Mississippi shall be free, forever... and that's what the Mississippi was... a travel route. That's how folks got around, back then... And all those freeways, hi-ways, and streets are simply 'rivers of tar', each in turn, connected to that Mississippi River for use of the general public to travel upon, unencumbered by fee or tariff.

It DOES get a little different when someone wants to go out and make a buck, by using the roads of the travelling public, to earn money for themselves... It's been decided by the courts that no one has a right to use public property commercially... unless they first pay specific fees and levies to be determined by the legislature.

But I'd like to ask you, JB, Why is it that you are adverse to someone using a v8 engine for their MAB ?

Wouldn't bother me... Long as they didn't threaten me or act like an idiot by putting others in peril.

But we don't need the dmv regs to deal with idiots... any peace officer could just drag them before a suitable court for disturbing the peace, to answer for his actions.

I think you might be quite surprised where the money from registration fees and that stuff actually goes. Most of it goes to the department itself, then most of whats left goes to other agencies.
You can find the info out there on the web if you want to look for it. All that is public record.

Best
rc

BTW, if you get time, would you have a look at the video on YouTube of Jay Leno cruising through the valley on his jet bike ?
Very, very nice machine.
I LIKE IT !
I LIKE IT A LOT!
:)
 

Fulltimer

New Member
Aug 13, 2010
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Saint Augustine, FL
I noticed that you beat around the bush without answering my question. A known tactic that has never worked in a court of law for people of the before mentioned groups and individuals. File a ton of paper work comprised of mumbo jumbo. So far you are fitting right into one of them.

Terry
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
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Terry, if you are not entertained sorting through the mumbo jumbo legalese in the caselaw cites, or the presentation, perhaps it's better if you pay what they demand and do as they say.
IMO, the question that should be answered is "Why don't agencies and the muni courts respect the decisions of the higher courts?"

If someone wishes to investigate travel law, I've provided some places that offer a place to start investigating on their own. We all know where the respective vehicle codes can be found in our states.

This is not a myspace or facebook page, Terry.
It's about our right to travel, by MABs if we choose, not me.

Best
rc
 

Fulltimer

New Member
Aug 13, 2010
1,321
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Saint Augustine, FL
You still didn't answer my questions. Lets see, you probably think the Federal Income Tax is illegal, hunting license, fishing license, driving license and any other license is illegal also.

Terry
 

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
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0
Lake Worth
My question to the OP is, if you think you're correct in all your assumptions, have you thought about going to the supreme court to have your arguments heard?

I know that ultimately (being the highest court in our land) that they would be the ones to interpret the law and make a final decision. No?

I don't have the time or need or want to have to look through hundreds of case law studies/tresties/etc. to come to the same conclusion as everyone else... Whether right or wrong in our "assumptions".

End all of end all is that ultimately if you have enough money and/or power, you can pretty much do anything you want (AND get away with it!)... This has been shown time after time throughout history.
 
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SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
0
0
Lake Worth
You still didn't answer my questions. Lets see, you probably think the Federal Income Tax is illegal....

Terry
Lol.. Yeah, I remember a while back (a few years) some guy in the news that thought he had some kind of "loophole" to try to say that any kind of tax (especially Federal) was illegal....

Talk about getting squashed like a bug... That guy's assumptions didn't last very long.
 
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rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
You still didn't answer my questions. Lets see, you probably think the Federal Income Tax is illegal, hunting license, fishing license, driving license and any other license is illegal also.

Terry
This is a kit bike forum.
I'd prefer to stay on that application.
Building and use.
rc
 

jburr36

Member
Jul 17, 2008
285
0
16
Idaho
Did you ever take the time to review the Northwest Ordinance treaty?
(You DO know treaties supercede all laws, right?)

Ask any Native American Tribe how well the US abides by treaties then tell me whether the treaties actually supercede all laws. I'm one who remains bitter about that subject as the so called treaties were absolutely worthless and what the US did to native populations amounted to our 1st national holocaust. But all this is irrelevent to our subject.

It's quite clear within that document that travel upon the Mississippi shall be free, forever... and that's what the Mississippi was... a travel route. That's how folks got around, back then... And all those freeways, hi-ways, and streets are simply 'rivers of tar', each in turn, connected to that Mississippi River for use of the general public to travel upon, unencumbered by fee or tariff.

And still is a travel route as well as a major commercial shipping route. That river has a lot of traffic that runs up and down it. Without rules and regulations AND enforcement of such to maintain safety and orderly usage the river could be absolute chaos. It also takes infrastructure, loading docks, traffic control centers, roads to and from the river, flood control, elevation locks, energy, etc. to make it all work. All this takes money to develop and to maintain and to operate. People aren't going to work for free. It's ridiculous to demand using a costly infrastructure for free. If you insist on truly free travel then travel on undeveloped roadless public lands or waterways. Also, the modes of transportation we enjoy today require certain knowledge and experience gained by education. It also requires that a prospective user prove they have the prerequisite knowledge and experience to do so. Nobody wants an uneducated inexperienced person using a vehicle that has the potential of greater risk of injury and property damage near them on any public roadway. Everyone has the RIGHT to travel to abject safety while using public road. That's why we have a law enforcement system that works to ensure it. And that includes regulating equipment so that it meets or exceeds certain safety requirements that are proven to be within the physical properties of the vehicle. And yes all this is going to cost some money because nobody wants to work for free.



It DOES get a little different when someone wants to go out and make a buck, by using the roads of the travelling public, to earn money for themselves... It's been decided by the courts that no one has a right to use public property commercially... unless they first pay specific fees and levies to be determined by the legislature.

As stated above it's because it takes money to develop and maintain public roadways. It's ridiculous to expect to use a public infrastructure and not make a contribution towards its development and maintenance

But I'd like to ask you, JB, Why is it that you are adverse to someone using a v8 engine for their MAB ? Wouldn't bother me... Long as they didn't threaten me or act like an idiot by putting others in peril.

I'm not adverse to anyone using a V8 engine on a bicycle. I'm adverse to them using one on a public roadway because it puts the other users of the roadway in danger. As stated above everyone has a right to abject safety on the roads. A bicycle has physical limitations that prevent using such a motor. The frame, tires, brakes, hubs, bearings, chains, etc. are not designed for use with a v8 engine nor are most bicycles designed to travel faster than 25-35 mph. and have a maximum weight load capacity. Not to mention the operator of the modified bicycle's ability to maintain control over the vehicle would be diminished considerably. Exceeding these physical limitations increases the risks of catastrophic failure exponentially and creates an extraordinary risk on a public roadway for other users in violation of their rights to abject safety on the public roads. So using any vehicle, not just the example above, on a public roadway that is designed to exceed the physical limitations of such a vehicle would put the operator and others on the roadway in peril.



But we don't need the dmv regs to deal with idiots... any peace officer could just drag them before a suitable court for disturbing the peace, to answer for his actions.

The purpose of the DMV is to identify motor vehicles and operators that use public roadways and ensure that an operator has sufficient knowledge and experience to operate a vehicle safely. The state or federal DOT (department of transportation) regulates what vehicles can operate safely on the roads, sets rules and regulations how vehicles operate of the roads according to the road's design and other conditions. Also the DOT designs the roadways and traffic control systems. These entities are essential for public safety. Without the mandate for identification for users of public roads users would have great difficulty in identifying scofflaws that caused an injury or property damage as well as assist law enforcement in enforcing the traffic laws.

I think you might be quite surprised where the money from registration fees and that stuff actually goes. Most of it goes to the department itself, then most of whats left goes to other agencies.
You can find the info out there on the web if you want to look for it. All that is public record.

Of course, nobody wants to work for free. There is nothing wrong with making those who want the privilege of using a public roadway pay for it as they are benefitting from it.

Best
rc

:)
If we are going to benefit from public infrastructure we are obligated to contribute to its development, maintenance, and enforcement of the rules and regulations that ensure the orderly usage of it.
 
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