A Real Electric Car

GoldenMotor.com
kerf

kerf

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Jun 28, 2010
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I've been looking over the specs on the Nissan Leaf electric car. Unlike the Volt, this car is a total electric and it seems that it's range exceeds the Volts electric range. The Volt has a MSRP of $40,280 compared to the leaf's of $32,780, that's a difference of $7,500, not bad. Then both cars qualify for the $7,500 Federal subsidy for electric cars. I feel really good that I, as a tax payer, will be expected to foot the bill for someone else's car but that's another story.

Lets look at the Leaf as compared to the Versa Hatchback, which is the gas equivalent of the Leaf.

Leaf MSRP $32,780 less $7500 tax payer subsidy = $25,280 net.

Versa MSRP $14,380 less NO TAX PAYER SUBSIDY = $14,380 net.

Cost difference is $10,900 divided by $3.50 per gallon for gas = 3114 gallons.

Average of city / highway Versa millage (24/32) = 28 MPG.

Miles driven on 3114 gallons of gas 87,200.

This means that it would require 87,200 miles to amortize the cost of the Leaf and this does not include the cost of the electricity to charge the Leaf. In addition, the battery life is expected to be about ten years at a replacement cost of $9,000.

Well heck, guess ol kerf will keep his gas burner, sorry tree huggers.
I wonder just how long this post will last, the truth is bound to offend someone.
 
M

motorbiker

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Mar 22, 2008
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I remember Elliot called the Dodge dealer because his Shadow would not start.

They towed it to the dealership and said it needed new sparkplug wires.

$480 bucks ! :)

Car dealers will always try and figure out how to drain your bank account.

Big problem for them if electric cars are as trouble free as electric bikes.

That check engine light is a big money maker for them for sure ! :)

If you want an electric car then build your own using one of the many kits.

I like the ones for old VW bugs and Porsches ! :)

RebirthAuto.com
 
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kerf

kerf

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Don't get me wrong guys, I think electrics would be great and would love to have one but the technology isn't yet ripe. Federal subsides will retard the development rather than foster it because the pressure of the marketplace is what drives innovation. Nissan has done a great job of getting battery cost from $1000 per KWH to $375 per KWH but that's still too high. Also, the range of an electric, IMO, would need to exceed 200 miles real world. The marketplace is quite good at making things happen if just left alone.
 
M

motorbiker

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Mar 22, 2008
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Tampa Bay Florida
kerf said:
Don't get me wrong guys, I think electrics would be great and would love to have one but the technology isn't yet ripe. Federal subsides will retard the development rather than foster it because the pressure of the marketplace is what drives innovation. Nissan has done a great job of getting battery cost from $1000 per KWH to $375 per KWH but that's still too high. Also, the range of an electric, IMO, would need to exceed 200 miles real world. The marketplace is quite good at making things happen if just left alone.
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The kids in China loving electric bicycles is the main reason we can buy electric bicycle stuff at such good prices ! :)

They have electric bicycle engineers over there ! :)
 
jburr36

jburr36

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Jul 17, 2008
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I shudder to contemplate being stuck on the freeway in Phoenix in the summer or NYC in the winter in an electric car. The range of e-vehicles is already limited to a fraction of what a gas vehicle is but a heater and AC will suck the battery dry. I'd fear being stranded out the with a dead battery that takes hours to charge.
 
kerf

kerf

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Birmingham, Al
jburr36 said:
I shudder to contemplate being stuck on the freeway in Phoenix in the summer or NYC in the winter in an electric car. The range of e-vehicles is already limited to a fraction of what a gas vehicle is but a heater and AC will suck the battery dry. I'd fear being stranded out the with a dead battery that takes hours to charge.
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All valid points that reinforce the fact that electrics need much more development. I believe that will come, hope I'm alive to see it.
 
M

motorbiker

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Mar 22, 2008
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kerf said:
All valid points that reinforce the fact that electrics need much more development. I believe that will come, hope I'm alive to see it.
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Been riding my bicycle way more than driving the truck.

So much that when stuck in traffic I wish I was on the bicycle.

In Florida it's ok to go on the sidewalk so it's easy to get around.

As long as I am moving it is OK but I hate sitting in traffic !

Was in Largo yesterday and got caught in traffic. A small wreck backed up 100's of us. What a mess. I hated it !

I can almost always get to Brandon in about the same time by bicycle as it takes in a car.

There have been times when I was sitting stopped on I-4 long enough to get out, set up a grill and have a hotdog cookout ! ! !

Then peoples cars overheat and break down waiting and jam up the interstate even more !

Crazy. People sitting at green lights texting drives me nuts too, aghhhhhhhh ! ! ! :)

At least when I ride the bicycle I know how long it will take to get there.

In a car, oh my, it can take hours to go 10 miles sometimes ! ! !

end of stuck in traffic rant !
 
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deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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north carolina
I have a home made ebike and the range is my only issue with it. Batteries with long life are way too expensive.
 
kerf

kerf

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Jun 28, 2010
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Birmingham, Al
deacon said:
I have a home made ebike and the range is my only issue with it. Batteries with long life are way too expensive.
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Don't have an ebike but I'm using 12 AH of AGM for light. Thought about Li Ion until I got the cost, OMG, I would need a second mortgage.
 
deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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north carolina
yep i use sla batteries and get about 4 miles on 12ah before they sag way bad. but with a little creative Coast pedal and power combo I can do the trail enough to wear myself out and still get over the hills to get home with enough power to go a few more miles. Can't ride the gas bike on the greenway its a nature trail.
 
jburr36

jburr36

Member
Jul 17, 2008
285
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Idaho
kerf said:
All valid points that reinforce the fact that electrics need much more development. I believe that will come, hope I'm alive to see it.
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It's not uncommon to be stuck in traffic on a freeway in both those places. Phoenix right now is having a hot summer and NYC had a really cold snowy winter. Imagine having your little kids with you in that situation too.

That's why the closest I would get to an electric vehicle would be a hybrid.
 
jburr36

jburr36

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Jul 17, 2008
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Idaho
I firmly believe that the future technology for transportation is going to be electric cars but use hydrogen or methane fuel cells. Fuel cells are 95%+ efficient in converting the gasses into electricity. Silent and doesn't create much heat. Some excellent advances have been made in hydrogen storage technology using metal hydrides. The capacity of the cells are increasing as well as the speed that they absorb the hydrogen. Some day some company may come up with new types of superconductors that work at or near room temperature. That would change the world we all know.

We have a lot to look forward to.
 
kerf

kerf

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Jun 28, 2010
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Birmingham, Al
jburr36 said:
I firmly believe that the future technology for transportation is going to be electric cars but use hydrogen or methane fuel cells. Fuel cells are 95%+ efficient in converting the gasses into electricity. Silent and doesn't create much heat. Some excellent advances have been made in hydrogen storage technology using metal hydrides. The capacity of the cells are increasing as well as the speed that they absorb the hydrogen. Some day some company may come up with new types of superconductors that work at or near room temperature. That would change the world we all know.

We have a lot to look forward to.
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You make some excellent points but your most powerful statement was "Some day". Lets not forget that the morning still comes today and we must find a way through the next 24 hours and tomorrow we do it all over again. We must find a way to "Some day" and to that end I say "DRILL BABY DRILL"!!!
 
M

motorbiker

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Mar 22, 2008
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Tampa Bay Florida
kerf said:
You make some excellent points but your most powerful statement was "Some day". Lets not forget that the morning still comes today and we must find a way through the next 24 hours and tomorrow we do it all over again. We must find a way to "Some day" and to that end I say "DRILL BABY DRILL"!!!
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It looks like in Tampa it's charge, baby, charge ! :)

AAA unveils first electric vehicle charging stations in Tampa Bay area

Good news is that the electricity is 100% made in the USA by American workers ! ! ! :)
 
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jburr36

jburr36

Member
Jul 17, 2008
285
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16
Idaho
kerf said:
You make some excellent points but your most powerful statement was "Some day". Lets not forget that the morning still comes today and we must find a way through the next 24 hours and tomorrow we do it all over again. We must find a way to "Some day" and to that end I say "DRILL BABY DRILL"!!!
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That's what I say!! DRILL!!!!! DRILLL!!! DRILLL!!!!!!

The demand for oil is not going to go away anytime within the next 2 decades at the very least. Hyrdogen that is used to fuel the space shuttles is manufatured from natural gas. Natural gas can be manufactured from oil as well as coal. and methane can be farmed not only from the dairy industry and from landfills but the vast quantities that are locked in frozen solid form on the bottoms of the Gulf of mexico and of the eastern coast of he US.

In fact, it is theorized that some of the weird sinking of ships and downing of planes as well as crew hallucinations was due to high concentrations of escaping methane gases in the Bermuda triangle. high concentration of methane bubbles causes ships to loose buoyancy and sink like a rock. Planes too can have trouble due to lack of oxygen in the engines. And the displacement of oxygen can cause people to lose their minds.
 
kerf

kerf

New Member
Jun 28, 2010
304
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Birmingham, Al
Methane in the form of natural gas as well as methane hydrates under the ocean are an immense energy source. CNG is currently being used as an alternative to gasoline and diesel but there is a roadblock to mass application. The infrastructure to dispense CNG is very limited and mostly only used in fleet applications. We have, for good or bad, evolved an infrastructure geared toward petroleum based fuels for transportation and it isn't surprising that it turned out that way.

There was a time when lighting depended on oil which came from animal or plant sources. That changed in 1849 when kerosene was first distiled from crude oil. The only problem is it produced a vile useless byproduct called gasoline that they were dumping into rivers to keep it from blowing up. Someone goes to build the first cars and guess what, there's a ready fuel supply that refiners will pay you to take. Rest is history but it has left the infrastructure as it is and it will require a great deal of time and money to change over to something else. In the mean time we drill and then argue about it.
 
B

Buzzard

Member
Jul 9, 2008
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Lincoln, NE
Anybody that owns an electric car shouldn't live any farther north than the Mason Dixon line. I can't imagine a cold winter morning in the dark at 10 below zero you go out to your electric car, turn on the heater lights etc and hope it will move. A battery loses a lot of its potential at any temp below zero. You'd probably have to keep it plugged in all night just to keep it alive. Where's the economy in that?
buzzard
 
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