SAE30 16:1 observations

Pablo · Sep 14, 2010

ZDDP is not completely disappearing just reduced in API SM oils. But that's off the track.

HT's will run on most any oil. Additized engine oil will eventually foul your plug. My only point really.

FreeWheeler · Sep 14, 2010

Pablo said:
ZDDP is not completely disappearing just reduced in API SM oils. But that's off the track.

HT's will run on most any oil. Additized engine oil will eventually foul your plug. My only point really.

Understood, Pablo.

I think the pre-1930 straight mineral oil, non detergent, no additive SAE30 is my best choice for now.

The weather is still cool and it ran better than ever today. I'm using the stock plug and wire too.

FreeWheeler · Sep 20, 2010

There was a change in performance today. I had less power. The weather is getting cooler, but the latest change was in fuel/oil. I found a 1 gallon shot of Echo 2 stroke in the garage and mixed it with 1 gallon of gas. The echo is supposed to be 50:1, so I mixed with some SAE30 to get 16:1. I pulled the plug to see if its rich and it has lots of black crud. I took an exacto and scraped what I could and ran it. It has less power and for the first time it stalled while idling after warm up. I'm going to raise the ratio on what I mixed and see if it improves.

FreeWheeler · Sep 20, 2010

Scraping the crud off the plug was a good move. I also added enough gas to bring the ratio up to 24:1 and when the bike's tank ran down, I topped it with the lighter stuff. I ran about 10 miles and when I brought it in I let it idle and it was steady, no stalling. I'll check the plug again tonight.

Pablo · Sep 20, 2010

Ah, plug gumbo. Makes some awesome dirty rice. laff

FreeWheeler · Sep 21, 2010

I dont know why I used the echo 2 stroke. The performance change coincided with that. I pulled the plug and it was black, just starting to build. Next gallon is SAE30 only. So far it's been SAE30 only and then SAE30 with a touch of 2 stroke. This mix is 24:1. It ran fine after cleaning the plug and boosting the ratio.

My old Puch ran on motor oil, sometimes it was even used oil.

FreeWheeler · Sep 22, 2010

It's running the 24:1 Echo/SAE30 mix, but I had moved the c-clip up to the top and ran it. I was rolling. It was incredible and that sound was there, but I knew it might be lean so I checked the plug again. There was no excessive oilyness or crud and it seemed like it might have some grey, so I cleaned it again and moved the c-clip down a notch where it was.

Venice said something about rejetting to a smaller jet, but I dont want to confound any more variables just yet. I'll finish this batch of gas first and keep checking the plug.

FreeWheeler · Sep 23, 2010

Plug was ok, no fouling or signs it might be lean, a little wet and dark.

The weather changed back to hot from cool and dry. I'm peddling on the big hills again, but better to err on the rich side. It sure had power up a notch on the clip and I'm inclined to think that the initial boost in power when I switched to SAE30 could have been break in related, but it is hard to tell just yet. The minor swings in power, some for the worse, could be weather, plug, c-clip, and choice of oil is what I want to isolate. I also want more power, of course, but if I want to see what oil choice does than I better be patient.

FreeWheeler · Sep 24, 2010

The weather is Hot again. Plug looks ok, dark but no crud. I've got one more tank of the 2stroke/SAE30 @24:1 and then it is back to SAE30 @ 16:1. I can always boost it to 20:1.

I noticed something with the head tonight when I checked the plug. I reinstalled the plug and then for kicks, I grabbed the head and tried to wiggle it up and down. I could see movement(maybe 1mm or 2) and I wonder if that should be.

Pablo · Sep 24, 2010

Your head is loose? Needs proper torqueing.

FreeWheeler · Sep 25, 2010

Pablo said:
Your head is loose? Needs proper torqueing.

I'm using a torque wrench set to 100 inch lbs., but I'm only going in 1/4 turn increments in a X pattern and havent torqued out yet. I'm ascared I'm gonna cause a warp.

I was idling it earlier and I thought I heard a pfftt pffft pffft and couldnt tell if it was head or clutch area.

As for oil, I might just add a .5 ounce of 2stroke to the 1/2 gallon and get it to 20:1

FreeWheeler · Sep 26, 2010

Finally got a 100 inch lbs. on each head bolt and the wrench stopped within 1/2 turn on all the nuts, so I believe it is pretty even. I also added that .5 ounce of leftover 2 stroke homelite to get 20:1. I pulled the plug and it was black with no crud. Weather is still hot.

Right now, the only conclusion I might reach is that it likes a lower than 24:1 ratio of gas/oil and temperatures below 90.

FreeWheeler · Sep 30, 2010

I'm going to try 16:1 again. I didnt want to mix an entire gallon, so I used a scale and did it by weight. I used the tare feature of the scale to factor out the container weight. My oil bottle has volume ticks on the side and had exactly 12 ounces in it which makes it easy to weigh and determine weight/ounce, etc. I used an empty and put gas in it and then set to tare and added the grams of oil, screwed on the cap and mixed.

FreeWheeler · Oct 5, 2010

It's running the SAE30 exclusively now and it is running great. When the mix in the tank which also had homelite ran out, I knew it again. It took off like the first time I noticed a difference. The first time it was homelite 24:1 and the boost occurred when the 16:1 kicked in. At some point in this it had some more homelite at 20:1 and didnt like it. When I went back to 16:1 SAE30 exclusively, it started running better again. The weather is very cool, but what I noticed(the boost in power) occurred once in hot weather and again in cool weather, so weather is ruled out.

I'm sticking with non-detergent no additive SAE30 at 16:1.

FreeWheeler · Oct 9, 2010

Venice Motor Bikes said:
Here's what I think is happening... The more oil in the gas, the less gas is in the mix. (More oil = leaner fuel/air mix.)

Freewheeler, I think re-jetting your carb (smaller) will make your bike run better with a normal gas/oil mix.

I just finished rejetting it. This was the first time I had the carb apart and it was sparkling on the inside, that's good. I took it out in the dark, using lights from houses, so didnt go far or fast but it fired up and idled ok. I guess if it is lean I can go down on the clip. I tried to eyeball a bit that was about 3/4 the original. We'll see, I just need some more hill climbing ability.

FreeWheeler · Oct 10, 2010

Holy cow! I musta picked the right drill bit because I was flying today. My mount bolt came loose on the front which was because of vibration, but the vibration was because I was flying. For the first time, I actually was holding back on throttle to keep the vibes down. I have since fixed the loose front mount bolt and checked the plug. The plug was juicy black. I cleaned it again to get a another read, but rejetting seems good. I ride the same loop and when I hit the mega hill, it went into 2 stroke and stayed there for the first time. Bwwwaaahhhhhhh instead of pppppppppttttttt.

Still using 16:1 SAE30

Dave31 · Oct 10, 2010

FreeWheeler said:
Holy cow! I musta picked the right drill bit because I was flying today. My mount bolt came loose on the front which was because of vibration, but the vibration was because I was flying. For the first time, I actually was holding back on throttle to keep the vibes down. I have since fixed the loose front mount bolt and checked the plug. The plug was juicy black. I cleaned it again to get a another read, but rejetting seems good. I ride the same loop and when I hit the mega hill, it went into 2 stroke and stayed there for the first time. Bwwwaaahhhhhhh instead of pppppppppttttttt.

Still using 16:1 SAE30

Thats great FreeWheeler (^)

FreeWheeler · Oct 11, 2010

Dave31 said:
Thats great FreeWheeler

Typical, starts running great and a new problem pops up. I think it might be electrical. I cleaned the jet just to be sure and its getting worse. Sputters and seems to be misfiring and has about 1/2 the power. The idle is weak and doesnt respond to throttle immediately.

GearNut · Oct 11, 2010

While I could very well be wrong here, I have experienced similar symptoms in the past with motorcycles. The problem was a plugged up exhaust. The idle was rough, throttle response was slow and the power was pathetic, but is still ran.
Early 70's Suzuki TX125 I think it was.

FreeWheeler · Oct 11, 2010

GearNut said:
While I could very well be wrong here, I have experienced similar symptoms in the past with motorcycles. The problem was a plugged up exhaust. The idle was rough, throttle response was slow and the power was pathetic, but is still ran.
Early 70's Suzuki TX125 I think it was.

I thought that a possibility too. That damned pipe is welded shut and I want to gut it.

In the meantime I checked the CDI with a DMM and compared to the readings in this thread:

http://motorbicycling.com/f39/help-cdi-boxes-22085.html

Here are my readings:

+ lead on blue, - lead on black = infinite
+ lead on black, - lead on blue = 10.29 Mega Ohms
+ lead on spark plug wire, - lead on blue = 10.29 Mega Ohms

+ lead on spark plug wire, - lead on black = infinite

What seems bad to me is that the only reading was 10.29 or infinite, as if some circuit is open and either path(blue or black) goes the same place bypassing something.

SAE30 16:1 observations

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