X80-BK on a Murray Beach Cruiser - Starting issues and fuel problems. PLEASE HELP

CheebaChamp · Aug 19, 2013

Hi all, I'm new to the Motor Bicycle world, and am in dire need of some help.

I bought a BGF 49cc about a month and a half ago and slapped it on a 26" Murray beach cruiser. I had it running pretty decently, but then I lost spark, and tried changing the CDI. So I decided to try and get them to do an exchange or issue a refund, but that turned into a nightmare.

Anyway, I ordered an X80-BK, and while I was waiting for it, completely went through the bike and gave it fresh paint, fresh tires and tubes, cleaned everything up, fresh grease, ect. So I got the motor kit last Thursday, and got it together that evening. On Friday I got it running, rode it nice n slow around the block a couple times (.7 miles) and even had it idling perfectly for a minute or two, but I must've not had the drive sprocket perfectly parallel, and I threw a chain and ended up bending a spoke and screwing up the wheel. I bought a new rear wheel, got the sprocket just right, and had everything lined up nicely.

Here's where the problem really starts. I can't get the motor to start again. I had it running with no problems on Friday, and havent been able to get it to run since and I didn't change or adjust a thing on the motor. I checked to make sure I was getting spark, and that's beautiful. The motor kit I got didn't come with a fuel line (big surprise), so I put a 1/4" clear line with a brass cone fuel filter on it. The fit isnt quite perfect, but it doesnt leak. When I try to start the motor, I drop the clutch and the motor will fire once, or a few times, and then nothing. I'm getting fuel leaking out of the air intake on the carb like the bowl is way too full. I took apart the carb and found that the small brass flange (or whatever it's called, like I said, I'm still new to this) that sits on top of the float and regulates where the needle is inside of the fuel inlet nipple was stuck. I and got it moving freely again. I put it together properly and the gasket is where it needs to be, and all the screws are tight. Motor still wont start, and I dont understand why I'm leaking like this!!! Is my problem a fuel line that's too large? Could I be flooding it? I would think that if that were the case I would maybe a leak a little, but the motor would run. I've put a lot of time and effort into this build (2nd motor install, first custom build), and I'm losing my mind here!!! Please help me out!!!!! laff

dumpstercrusher · Aug 19, 2013

i believe the fuel around the filter is normal. One of my bikes i need to constantly wash the air filter because its clogged from the oil/fuel. Are u still using the chinese spark plug boot? if so, consider changing it to an automotive wire. what kind of spark plug? whn you pedal and drop th clutch does it feel like its kinda gripping to start the motor or is there no feeling that the clutch is gripping? Had that issue once, had to adjust the clutch line just a tad

crassius · Aug 19, 2013

if you are still leaking fuel, then your float is stuck, or has sunk, or is adjusted too high - it not only will not start that way, but will usually fill your motor with fuel so that after fixing the float, you'll still need to blow out the motor

all-in-all a simple problem easy to fix

search here for 'float level'

CheebaChamp · Aug 19, 2013

dumpstercrusher said:
i believe the fuel around the filter is normal. One of my bikes i need to constantly wash the air filter because its clogged from the oil/fuel. Are u still using the chinese spark plug boot? if so, consider changing it to an automotive wire. what kind of spark plug? whn you pedal and drop th clutch does it feel like its kinda gripping to start the motor or is there no feeling that the clutch is gripping? Had that issue once, had to adjust the clutch line just a tad

I'm still using the cheapie the motor came with, waiting on getting paid to be able to put anymore money into it, and a quality plug is def in order. I already have an extra CDI that I bought and put an automotive wire on, but I am getting plenty of spark. When I drop the clutch, it's gripping for sure. It'll fire a couple times and thats it.

CheebaChamp · Aug 19, 2013

crassius said:
if you are still leaking fuel, then your float is stuck, or has sunk, or is adjusted too high - it not only will not start that way, but will usually fill your motor with fuel so that after fixing the float, you'll still need to blow out the motor

all-in-all a simple problem easy to fix

search here for 'float level'

Ah, the tang is what I was referring to when I said the part in the carb that was stuck. I'll give that a shot tomorrow, and let you know. Thanks!

mapbike · Aug 19, 2013

This may be had to follow but ill try to explain the best I can.

The best way I know to find out if the carb is flooding the engine is to do these steps.

1) turn the fuel petcock/valve off.
2) remove the drain screw that is on very bottom of fuel bowl on carb, allow all the fuel to drain from carb, put drain screw back in now.
3) DO NOT.... turn petcock back on yet. Now get on bike pedal up to speed as if you're trying to start the engine, let off the clutch and pedal a few feet 20-30 with the twist throotle rolled back all the way as if you were giving full throttle.
4) stop and turn petcock to on position for 123seconds and then turn it back off, raise choke lever and now take off pedalling and pop the clutch and see if engine starts up, if it does turn the choke off so that it will idleand now turn petcock back on if engine chokes down and dies within a few seconds you know that the carb is flooding and needs the float either ajusted lower or you have some trash between needle and seat valve in carb not allowing fuel flow to be shut off when float rises, a bad float that has let gas leak into it will cause the same flooding issue.

Hope this helps.

Peace, map
reddd

CheebaChamp · Aug 20, 2013

crassius said:
if you are still leaking fuel, then your float is stuck, or has sunk, or is adjusted too high - it not only will not start that way, but will usually fill your motor with fuel so that after fixing the float, you'll still need to blow out the motor

all-in-all a simple problem easy to fix

search here for 'float level'

Ok, So I bent the tang downwards a bit to adjust the float level as suggested on here, but I'm still leaking fuel. I'm going to attach a pic of where the leak is coming from. Do I just need to adjust the float level more??

biknut · Aug 20, 2013

Check the float itself to see if it is leaking. If you find any fuel inside the float replace the float.

biknut · Aug 20, 2013

Take you carb apart and remove the float needle, and examine the seat for junk. Even a tiny speck of crud will cause a leak.

Based on where you think it's leaking, I don't think you have a problem. As long as fuel isn't dribbling out of the carb when it's just sitting there it's probably ok.

Is it wired like this?

CheebaChamp · Aug 20, 2013

biknut said:
Take you carb apart and remove the float needle, and examine the seat for junk. Even a tiny speck of crud will cause a leak.

Based on where you think it's leaking, I don't think you have a problem. As long as fuel isn't dribbling out of the carb when it's just sitting there it's probably ok.

Is it wired like this?

I know it's leaking from there, I can see the fuel dribbling out of the carb, and if I push the little primer button, it spurts out of that hole. I'll check out what you're talking about, and clean it up if necessary. I've got it wired like this :

CheebaChamp · Aug 20, 2013

biknut -I'll check that out and clean it if needed. I do know that fuel is leaking from there, and it does dribble just sitting there. If I push the little priming button on the carb, fuel spurts out of that hole. I tried adjusting my float level and that didn't do anything, maybe I need to adjust it more. As far as wiring, I've got it like this: blue magneto to blue cdi, black mag to black cdi, with the killswitch going into both connections, and the white wire from the mag capped. I'll attach a little diagram.

CheebaChamp · Aug 20, 2013

biknut said:
Check the float itself to see if it is leaking. If you find any fuel inside the float replace the float.

Floats not leaking.

crassius · Aug 20, 2013

from the pic you've got the bowl on crooked

to adjust float, turn carb upside down, look to see that float sits level on the tangs and that the main jet is just peeking out a bit thru center hole of float

GearNut · Aug 20, 2013

Due to the fact that the engine had a previous flooding issue, has the engine been "blown out" like crassius suggested?
A flooding carb can easily fill up the crankcase with excessive fuel and the engine will be a no-go until all that fuel is cleared out.
Remove the spark plug and disconnect the mag from the cdi so the cdi will not get damaged.
If a carb is installed, make sure the fuel is turned off and the carb float bowl is empty.
Hold the throttle wide open during the next step. This will allow as much air into the engine as possible to dry it out/ remove the excess fuel.
Pedal the bike for a few minutes with the clutch engaged like you are trying to start the engine. This will let the engine clear itself of the excessive fuel.
Reconnect the mag to the cdi and reinstall the spark plug.
Do not reinstall the carb until you are sure the flooding problem has been resolved.
Why not try the carb from the other engine?
The flooding problem could be a defect with the float needle or needle seat, or the needle has been installed up-side-down.
To check for this, color in the tapered end of the needle with a magic marker.
Reassemble the float needle and float lever/ fork. Hold the carb right side up and tap on the float lever/ fork with your finger 10 or so times. Remove the float needle and look closely for a perfect ring of shiny metal where the needle seat should have rubbed the magic marker ink off of the needle. You will need good lighting and perhaps a magnifying glass to see it clearly. It should be a perfect ring all around. If there are any gaps where the ink has not been rubbed off then either the needle is egg shaped, or there is a flaw in the needle seat.

mapbike · Aug 20, 2013

This is actually a very simple fix, if you have fuel dripping out of carb anywhere above the float bowl line, you have one of three problems plain and simple, either the float level is adjusted wrong, or the needle and seat are not holding a seal when the float raises up in float bowl, or the float itself has a hole or crack in it allowing fuel to leak in and make it to heavy to float in the fuel.

You said you know for a fact that the float is good, so either you are not adjusting the float level fingers the wrong direction or the needle and seat is not holding a seal.

There is nothing else and I mean nothing else that could be causing the problem you are describing, these are very simple carbs and its almost impossible to make them not work on an engine if the float level is correct and the needle and seat is working like it should.

I know I'm whipping a dead horse here because I have said nothing here that has not been said already by myself and by almost everyone else who has posted in this thread, I say all this to encourage you to look closely at what we have said here and thoroughly check the needle & seat seal and make sure that with the carb upside down that the float is not sitting with what will be its top edge below the height of the main jet that sticks up through the middle of the float.

Map
reddd

kevyleven007 · Aug 20, 2013

Nice paint. That's a nice looking old murray! So, fix the seal or get a new carb that's your problem.

2door · Aug 20, 2013

crassius said:
from the pic you've got the bowl on crooked

to adjust float, turn carb upside down, look to see that float sits level on the tangs and that the main jet is just peeking out a bit thru center hole of float

Check what this man is saying about the float bowl being crooked, cocked. This usually happens when the pin that the float tang rides on has slipped and is being pinched between the bowl and the carburetor body. There's a good chance the tang is not swiveling properly and is keeping the float needle valve open which would explain why fuel is leaking above the valve level.

Remove the bowl again and make sure that pin is centered in the body and not overhanging into the gasket area. Also check the float to make sure it has no fuel in it and will float when placed in a container of gasoline.

Tom

BigBlue · Aug 20, 2013

Cheeba,

You've got some great minds helping. FYI, the height of the float should be 21mm from the gasket seating surface with no gasket when meawsuring. The needle seat might be plugged if you initially didn't install a filter. The HT tanks are notorious for having junk in the tanks.

Good Luck,

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

mapbike · Aug 20, 2013

I went back and looked at carb pic and as Tom has pointedfor the second time in this thread you should look into why the carb bowl looks like it isn't seated up flush with the carb, if it was actually hung on the float lever pin I would think fuel would be spilling out around the bowl way before the fuel level was high enough to come out of that hole you said its coming out of but it does look like something is wrong for the bowl to be all cocked over to one side like it is in pic.

I know we all hate it that you're having these issues and I sure hope you can get this resolved soon, sucks to have a bike down and out when you really just want to get out and feel the wind in your hair and taste the bugs in your teeth........!

Map

CheebaChamp · Aug 20, 2013

Thank you guys, all of you. I truly appreciate all the help and I'm sure I'll get this worked out the next time I have time to sit down and work on it. (fingers crossed that'll be tomorrow afternoon)

So to respond -

The bowl being crooked on the carb is kinda weird, as I've lined it up and made sure the gasket is seated properly, and although it looks kind of crooked, I thoroughly checked and didn't see any leakage there. I'm thinking that it's going to have to do with what Tom is talking about, because the first time I took the carb apart the tang was stuck in its position. I'm going to have to blow out the engine as well, I have yet to do that. As far as using the other carb, the first motor I got from boygofast is probably going to get sent back, but I'm going to play with the parts of both though to get this right. I have confidence I'll figure it out with all of your help.

Again, thanks guys, you've made me a believer, and definitely a new member that's going to be around to stay.

-Nik

X80-BK on a Murray Beach Cruiser - Starting issues and fuel problems. PLEASE HELP

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