So I got the SBP head stud kit, but can't figure out a way to screw them in. Should I use a drill or something? Theres no way they are going in using my hands, and im worried to use pliers, because I don't want to mess up the threads. So. Whats the best way? Also, is ordering a new air filter from SBP worth it? Does it make any difference?
Best way to screw in the head studs
- Thread starter geoldr
- Start date
The most common way is to tighten 2 nuts against eachother on the stud and then screw the stud in.
Double nutting is the only viable way to screw those studs in correctly. The cylinder head will need to be removed to have enough threads for two nuts. If the cylinder is also removed then you have all the room you'll need. Torque them to about 100 to 120 inch pounds if you're replacing 8mm studs. Don't overtighten them! If you don't have a torque wrench, buy, borrow or rent one. They are a very good tool to have around.
Tom
Tom
With the cylinder head off and out of the way. I often use nice needle nose Vise Grips down low where a nut will never ever thread to. This is where the cylinder will later rest.
Sorry, but this is probably the worst thing you can possibly do. Not only do you uselessly mar the surface of the stud, you actually compromise it's integrity by doing this. No matter how careful (or 'good') at such an act you are knocking tiny lil metal shavings loose. AND you cannot torque a head stud in such a matter.
Seriously, GH? Seriously?
Seriously, GH? Seriously?
First thing you do is put a rage over any motor automotive or what ever when you have the innerds exposed NO MATTER WHAT.. Even with your Nuts plan.Sorry, but this is probably the worst thing you can possibly do. Not only do you uselessly mar the surface of the stud, you actually compromise it's integrity by doing this. No matter how careful (or 'good') at such an act you are knocking tiny lil metal shavings loose. AND you cannot torque a head stud in such a matter.
Seriously, GH? Seriously?
Those ubber cool upgraded studs can take way more abuse then you worded it for... My instructions never implied in any way wut so ever to mare his threads where the installation nuts go...
I can do it been turning wrenches professionally for a living for many years. Could do this when I was a child that is when I got started wrenching if I wanted my stuff to work I had to learn. . I don't normally suggest anything I cannot do. I also red loctite them in as I will not be taking them out ether. I am confident enough not to damage any thing and can leave them installed.
You are prolly right in one thought how ever on these cheap motors that proper torque should be endeared at every aspect. As perhaps somebody could tighten there studs unevenly. Which in turn over a few heat cycles could settle the jug and casing different? Was going to happen with two nuts no doubt any way.
Last how about clumsily loosening the nuts and having loose studs again didja forget about that one with only 100 or so inch pounds to hold things still?
I also should have said more clearly that Chinese tools like their Vice grips are also junk. I use USA ones. No I don't get these metal shavings you are claiming ever ether. It obviously takes some competence to use any tools properly.
I use Copper Koat head gasket dressing star washer lock washers and ditch the acorn nuts as they tend to bottom out on some installs before tightening the head. I avoid a loose hanging rattling oscillating exhaust pipe. Everybody over looks that one. This leads to the why do I have to keep re torquing my cylinder head ditty and if not it just is not friendly to the thought of harmony.
Not to mention the vibration felt through the bike from the occliations.
Guess what these do? 1/2" Drive Stud Extractor
This is used on a regular basis in professional wrenching and yes the stud gets reused. Talking about some ubber foot pound torque more than a china takes for assembly and some mean torque even Vise Grips cannot usually do.
The little ol china only needs about 100 to 120 inch pounds.. A nice pair of Vise Grips properly used will never ever slip in any way at all and are more than capable of handling this task.
http://www.cj-3a.com/DSC01942.JPG
Just like bad Vise grips there are bad ones of these as well.... http://www.cj-3a.com/DSC01942.JPG
Really
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I don't know any "professional wrench turner" who uses vice-grips to install studs. Every shop owner I know would fire someone for doing such. Just sayin.
How do you think those tools I showed work? Bet you never seen them before.
Um I don't strip or damage any threads the way I do this.
Vise grips and ''pliers'' are to different things all together. If the motor is off the bike put the studs on then the jug and cylinder.
The tools I linked are for pulling out studs and putting them back in. The way those tools work is when you apply more pressure they grip the work better even as more pressure is applied. Yes they leave a tiny set of knurl marks when used correctly.
When true Vise Grips are used correctly they work the same way. Used correctly leaves tiny Knurl marks as well. I use nice German Made stud puller sockets when I do intake plenum's etc. I don't have time to be double nutting everything when commercially wrenching
Never said the double nutting thing was a bad idea at all! It is a swell way to do it. Just said how I do it. Don't hate me because it works. lol.
http://www.ehow.com/info_8052287_visegrip-tools.html
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4911302_vise-grip-work.html
Just like mine lol the very kind I use. http://youtu.be/TVi1zki1R2A
I have this attachment too on a great big heavy slide hammer. http://youtu.be/mTpNAVPsz7Y
All tools have their place have to use good judgment is all.
http://youtu.be/Ojxi2EMke4c
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Sorry goat - gonna hafta agree w/the others on this 'un... not only should "vice-grips" be used as a last resort on parts you're gonna replace anyway due to the damage they cause... they are "pliers" as well, just locking ones (quote from your link);
No offense, but in "commercial wrenching" it's often true such shortcuts are commonplace - precisely because there isn't the time to do it properly
I'd have left it be if it weren't for the fact vice-grips can & will cause damage, not just "knurl marks" but distortion as well, even when used "properly" - a notable example is squashing fasteners, which if then reused may no longer grip the threads uniformly, even damaging the threads if attempted.
No offense, but in "commercial wrenching" it's often true such shortcuts are commonplace - precisely because there isn't the time to do it properly
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1. I'm a a guy that will remove the head and cylinder. That way you can check for broken rings.
2. Cover the internal cavity with a rag.
3. I use vice grips to remove the old studs as I'm going to trash them.
4. Make sure the the holes are taped to the bottom.
5. I use RED locktite, I don't expect to have to remove them either, and if I did, I'd use heat.
6. Add 2 oz of oil to the crankcase.
7. Double nut to install then. Only use Metric 8.8 hardware (USS Grade 5)
8. Use only a flat washer, I trash the lock washer.
9. Secure head on with locking nuts either nylock or all metal.
10. I torque 8mm lock nuts to 150 INCH pounds. (MAX is 204 inch pounds that these cast aluminum can handle).
Using these methods...
Never had a stud pull.
Never has a stud strip.
Never had to re-torque.
Never had a blown gasket.
Other ways will work, but I only want to do this ONE time.
2. Cover the internal cavity with a rag.
3. I use vice grips to remove the old studs as I'm going to trash them.
4. Make sure the the holes are taped to the bottom.
5. I use RED locktite, I don't expect to have to remove them either, and if I did, I'd use heat.
6. Add 2 oz of oil to the crankcase.
7. Double nut to install then. Only use Metric 8.8 hardware (USS Grade 5)
8. Use only a flat washer, I trash the lock washer.
9. Secure head on with locking nuts either nylock or all metal.
10. I torque 8mm lock nuts to 150 INCH pounds. (MAX is 204 inch pounds that these cast aluminum can handle).
Using these methods...
Never had a stud pull.
Never has a stud strip.
Never had to re-torque.
Never had a blown gasket.
Other ways will work, but I only want to do this ONE time.
Double nutting is indeed the best way to do it. That being said, I installed my studs using a vice grips just out of convenience. I have an un-threaded area on my studs, and it worked fine. I see absolutley no harm in doing that, as any "structural damage" to the stud is EXTREMELY minimal. Sure, it's not good to recommend vice grips to a newbie for installs, but you guys are being a little critical.
I'm not getting into the vice-grip verses nut controversy, however;
As I stated above I believe double nutting is the best way to install a stud BUT, an inexperienced (limited mechanical skill) builder/mechanic can damage threads by overtightening the back to back nuts. Like every other threaded fastener on the engine damage can occure when too much force is applied. Using excessive force (torque) on a fastener accounts for a huge percentage of the problems we see reported by new/inexperienced builders.
When two nuts are over tightened against each other the thread integrity can be compromised.
Just saying.
Tom
As I stated above I believe double nutting is the best way to install a stud BUT, an inexperienced (limited mechanical skill) builder/mechanic can damage threads by overtightening the back to back nuts. Like every other threaded fastener on the engine damage can occure when too much force is applied. Using excessive force (torque) on a fastener accounts for a huge percentage of the problems we see reported by new/inexperienced builders.
When two nuts are over tightened against each other the thread integrity can be compromised.
Just saying.
Tom
me entire tool collection consists of vice grips, duct tape and jb weld, so far i have found nothing i cant fix!!
When I am working in a shop and ask for a tool I rarely ask or am asked for by a generic term pliers. I will say Dykes ''wire cutters'' or Channel Locks etc.
Man I gotta be careful with my big honking table vise. No telling what kind of damage I can do with that sucker. If I spent an entire day doing it I bet I could make a bolt look like chewing gum if I just kept cramming it in there over and over and over
''''''Yeah OK on a serious note sure just double nut it its only 120 inch pounds.''''''
If a guy is really doubting his skill put all 4 nutz on there. lol.
Take the jug off and fill the all tread completely up with nutz.
Man I gotta be careful with my big honking table vise. No telling what kind of damage I can do with that sucker. If I spent an entire day doing it I bet I could make a bolt look like chewing gum if I just kept cramming it in there over and over and over
''''''Yeah OK on a serious note sure just double nut it its only 120 inch pounds.''''''
If a guy is really doubting his skill put all 4 nutz on there. lol.
Take the jug off and fill the all tread completely up with nutz.
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Geoldr... I humbly apologize for the distractive mayhem I may have added to your original question.
Naw stick with the double nut deal. DON'T TAKE YOUR JUG OFF. Unless you feel competent about understanding parts and there relevance to each other?
The can of worms is:
1. prolly gonna tear the lower jug gasket? If its a new motor never been ran then it will mebbe not tear?
If you do while you are there take a look to see if the gasket is partially blocking any ports at the bottom of the jug? I think the manufactures are making cleaner cut gaskets now. If so just delicately neatly trim it with a razer blade. Care not to damage your gasket.
2. You stand a good chance at breaking a piston ring if not paying attention. The piston rings line up with a pin slot in the piston. This in turn keeps the rings in perfect check and alignment with the jug ports. The rings need to be compressed to slide the jug back on. The rings will not compress unless lined up to their perspective slots. NOT DOING THIS RIGHT WILL BREAK A RING. I do this one ring at a time with just my finger nails my self. Also with a coat of oil on things.
They make a ring compressor tool for this I myself never officially used one on these tiny motors..
Also breaking a ring will no doubt fall into the motor. Leading to double jeopardy.
''''''Pretty much to the letter like the first two posts said just double nut it and leave everything else well enough alone.'''''''
Geolder this no doubt will be the best most harmless way to tell a new be to put these in.
I have actually had great luck with the stock studs myself by the way.
Naw stick with the double nut deal. DON'T TAKE YOUR JUG OFF. Unless you feel competent about understanding parts and there relevance to each other?
The can of worms is:
1. prolly gonna tear the lower jug gasket? If its a new motor never been ran then it will mebbe not tear?
If you do while you are there take a look to see if the gasket is partially blocking any ports at the bottom of the jug? I think the manufactures are making cleaner cut gaskets now. If so just delicately neatly trim it with a razer blade. Care not to damage your gasket.
2. You stand a good chance at breaking a piston ring if not paying attention. The piston rings line up with a pin slot in the piston. This in turn keeps the rings in perfect check and alignment with the jug ports. The rings need to be compressed to slide the jug back on. The rings will not compress unless lined up to their perspective slots. NOT DOING THIS RIGHT WILL BREAK A RING. I do this one ring at a time with just my finger nails my self. Also with a coat of oil on things.
They make a ring compressor tool for this I myself never officially used one on these tiny motors..
Also breaking a ring will no doubt fall into the motor. Leading to double jeopardy.
''''''Pretty much to the letter like the first two posts said just double nut it and leave everything else well enough alone.'''''''
Geolder this no doubt will be the best most harmless way to tell a new be to put these in.
I have actually had great luck with the stock studs myself by the way.
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Good post, Goat. Thanks.
Like you, I've never had an occasion/need to replace the stock studs. Once properly torqued they'll work just fine. I currently have five HT engines, some with high milage and overall I've built ten HT powered bikes. Never replaced a cylinder stud, never had to. I have chased the top threads where those stupid chrome acorn nuts bottomed out and mushroomed the top end but that didn't require replacing them.
Oh, and I have found a use for the acorn nuts. They make great ammunition for my sling shot. They're not very aerodynamic but they're heavy and fly a long way when launched.
Tom
Like you, I've never had an occasion/need to replace the stock studs. Once properly torqued they'll work just fine. I currently have five HT engines, some with high milage and overall I've built ten HT powered bikes. Never replaced a cylinder stud, never had to. I have chased the top threads where those stupid chrome acorn nuts bottomed out and mushroomed the top end but that didn't require replacing them.
Oh, and I have found a use for the acorn nuts. They make great ammunition for my sling shot. They're not very aerodynamic but they're heavy and fly a long way when launched.
Tom
Hey guys, sorry to bring back on old thread. I don't understand the double nut method? Whenever I do two nuts, the just start spinning together like one big nut. Am I doing something wrong?
Turn one nut turn clock wise and the other nut counter cock wise. This in turn done with two wrenches will jam the nuts against each other tightly. Then the out side nut on top put a wrench on it and that stud will move and tighten up.
Be careful not to move the stud and loosen it when unjamming the nuts.
Be careful not to move the stud and loosen it when unjamming the nuts.
