E-85 gas???

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Venice Motor Bikes

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
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Los Angeles, CA.
One of the guys that I work with, just blew up the 2-stroke engine in his bass boat......
The guy who's rebuilding the engine for him said it blew because he used gas from Washington state that has a higher ethanol content than California gas!

He said it has something to do with the fact that ethanol burns at a different temp than gasoline, & ethanol also holds water in it...

Anyone else here know anything about it?

As far as the Mystery oil goes... I wouldn't do it!
I use "standard issue" Valvoline 2-stroke oil. I've never had a problem with it.
 
MB-Monkey

MB-Monkey

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Nov 19, 2008
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Wow that motor really didn't sound all that healthy. another thing to think about is the amout of Lead in the gas. Regular gas, before "unleaded" which is a misnomer because it too has lead content, had a higher lead content in it and that helped lubricate the head and other metallic parts. Then with the reduced lead content of modern fuels heads would fail from lack of lubrication. So again with the addition of "new" fuel technology, as many of know our grandfathers used to run corn whiskey in their cars as a boost so new is a relative term, again it will reduce the lead content in gasoline with mechanical failures sure to follow. The newer flex fuel cars and trucks can handle the removal of the "Octane" for the fuel but older cars before the late 90's it may spelled a sure fire death. So as far as using it in a "Made in China" motor i may think twice before jumping on the band wagon.... but what do monkeys know...... <splat>
 
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matt167

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if you run a higher ethanol content than 10%, you'll need to rejet ( richer ) the carb accordingly.. so if the boat was running 20-30%, and wasn't tuned for it.. that was the problem.... as far as lead in todays gasoline.. not as much as a trace of lead anymore.. lead did not provide lubrication. it provided a 'cushion' for the valve seats ( this is b4 hardened valve seats ).. and even with the new gas in the old engines, it's not a problem.. they will overtime get valve ressession, but there never run hard enough for it to happen quick.. most of the engine work I do, is on engines from pre 1970, because I deal mostly in classic cars
 
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matt167

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Cabinfever1977 said:
just get some regualar gas at the gas station. these arnt no racing boat motors.
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in some parts of the country E-85 is a lot cheaper than regular gas.. even if you knock off the 20% for fuel economy loss, figuring $1.90 per gallon which I belive around what it is midwest.. these engines would likely run cheaper.. E-85 also burns cooler so in proper tune- less wear
 
Cabinfever1977

Cabinfever1977

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Mar 23, 2009
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i pay 75cents for a liter which is what i put in my tank and im getting 180-200mpg.
how much cheaper does one need to get?

It would cost me around $50 in gas plus $5 in oil to go from NY to California.
 
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matt167

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figuring todays cost of gas, is 1.00 more than E-85 in some parts of the country.. that figuring, you would pay about 30 cents ( I'm not doing any math, but I know it's close ) and go 130 miles.. I know we don't have E-85 readily available in Ny as, last I heard there were 2 stations in Albany and 1 in NYC and that was it
 
noobtard

noobtard

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I plan to try it at some point, just figured there were 0 posts about it on here and if it's do-able.. could be worth it... closest E-95 station from me is 21 miles... $1.89/gallon
P.S. that noob-tube video is pretty darn bad quality...
 
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unior

unior

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Jun 18, 2009
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Someone mentioned something about the "removal" of octane. This is totally incorrect. E-85 has an octance rating of ~105. Its the best thing ever for a turbo powered car.

The thing people don't understand though is the higher the octane the less power! Unless you increase compression, advance timing, or increase your boost level your only gonna go slower and use more fuel.
 
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matt167

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what the higher octane does, is keep the A/F mix from preigniting ( detonation ), and only ignite with the spark. ( higher heat/ compression needs it to maintain it's stabillity ).. it doesn't make it any weaker, but it also doesn't make it any stronger.. you will use more E-85 than gas because the thermal efficiency of alcohol is a little less than gas... main thing is, if your going to run E-85, you have to check the plug regularly and tune accordingly.. if you have 1 , use a pyrometer or non contact thermometer, and take EGT's, make sure they don't run too hot... E-85 could burn the engine up, if it's tuned incorrectly, but tuned correctly, just like anything, should run just fine.. I'm a hotrodder by nature, so taking the road less travled is what I do..
 
Junster

Junster

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I agree higher octane is to slow the burn of the gas. Stops the pinging in a high compression motor. But high alcohol gas makes a hotter burn. Will also rust the inside of the tank so make sure your using a filter. Richer mix will make it work. Marvel Mystery Oil? Uh I don't think so, it's a mix of oil and kerosene from what I've read. I know that I broke my motor in with Valvoline 2 stoke for air cooled. After the first 3 gallons I switched to synthetic and went to 32:1 mix and my bike is faster and runs better. I pulled my jug to replace the base gasket and the bottom end is lubing really nicely. I have over 1000 miles on it now.
 
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xlite

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Junster said:
Marvel Mystery Oil? Uh I don't think so, it's a mix of oil and kerosene from what I've read.
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Junster, I would like to know where you read that. MMO is actually pure naphtha with small amount of wintergreen oil to mask the fact that it's naphtha which is about 1/3 price in the paint dept.. One quick wiff will tell you. It is used to clean out carbon and does a pretty good job.

As far as that video I've run with no oil at all for longer than that in a junk engine just to win a bet. Never did seize or blow up.

Ethanol has been studied extensively in aircraft engines and found, contrary to popular belief, to do no harm. They were saying it corroded cylinders, made Bing diaphragm brittle, etc., all baloney. What it does do is waste tax dollars because in fact it's considerably more expensive to produce than gas, now and in the near future. Lobbyists for big farm (corn) interests are the real the reason it's there.
 
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Junster

Junster

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Thanks for the heads up on the marvel mystery oil. Like I said alcohol can rust the inside of the tank. Alcohol collects water. That's why it's added to your gas tank if you have water in it. It will absorb the water and allow the injectors if you have them to pass it thru. The problem with corn for alcohol production is the low sugar content. About a 5% return. Products like sugar beets however go much higher. Every car sold since 1986 in Brazil can run on pure alcohol. Alcohol there is about half the cost of gas. Alcohol burning engines also do not acidify the oil in 4 stroke motors. Gasoline blowby acidify's motor oil breaking down the viscosity. Thats why it's important to have a good thermostat. To get your oil up to a high enough temp to boil the acid off and send it out the tailpipe via the pcv valve. Running a 2 cycle engine without oil mixed in the gas will kill and seize the motor if you run it long enough. A well broken in motor will run for a while but it is wearing it out very quickly. If MMO is naptha then using cigarette lighter fluid as mix is going to be a poor form of lubrication.
 
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xlite

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Jun 18, 2009
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Junster said:
Thanks for the heads up on the marvel mystery oil. Like I said alcohol can rust the inside of the tank. Alcohol collects water. That's why it's added to your gas tank if you have water in it. It will absorb the water and allow the injectors if you have them to pass it thru. The problem with corn for alcohol production is the low sugar content. About a 5% return. Products like sugar beets however go much higher. Every car sold since 1986 in Brazil can run on pure alcohol. Alcohol there is about half the cost of gas. Alcohol burning engines also do not acidify the oil in 4 stroke motors. Gasoline blowby acidify's motor oil breaking down the viscosity. Thats why it's important to have a good thermostat. To get your oil up to a high enough temp to boil the acid off and send it out the tailpipe via the pcv valve. Running a 2 cycle engine without oil mixed in the gas will kill and seize the motor if you run it long enough. A well broken in motor will run for a while but it is wearing it out very quickly. If MMO is naptha then using cigarette lighter fluid as mix is going to be a poor form of lubrication.
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All true. I wonder how long the engine in that video will actually last.
 
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