WHEELS for velocars, velomobiles and other multi-wheelers

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curtisfox

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Dec 29, 2008
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minesota
Yes that's true, and on the replica car site the change the bearing and seems to make a differance.........Curt
 

moto-klasika

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[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Hello Zoran
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Kai,[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]
My 50 cents
[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Your comments and advices are worth $$$, Euros or £££, not cents![/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Front wheels[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]:
The [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]trike front wheels[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif] I'm recently using on my Velocar have a 12mm Axles of high grade steel. (12.9).[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Where you bought them and what was the prices, if it isn't impolite to ask?[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]
Never had problems with side-ward stability, even with 24" wheels. The strength of the wheel/kingpin connection depends also on the outer diameter of the washers, which are stacked between the backing plate of the drum and the kingpin mount. If the axle bolt is properly tightened, the bolt itself is only stressed with tension, no bending forces at all. The backing plate, the washer and the kingpin mount are forming a virtual tube around the bolt and taking up the pressure.
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Do you have some sketch for that? Any modification needed or installation is simple?[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Rear wheels[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]:
I would use [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]BMX wheels,[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif] but mostly no disc mount on these wheels, so I have a brake problem. I'm toying with the idea of using [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Tuff Wheels[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif], maybe a version with disc mount is now available. A follower of Paul Elkins used such wheels.
Klick for a YT-video of his car
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I saw video-clip – wonderful machine![/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Visited web-site for wheels:[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]http://www.skywaywheels.com/products_003.htm [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Excellent wheels, but only “[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]plastic[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]” … I shouldn't have anything against them – a little of nostalgia – my son had BMX with blue “[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]plastic[/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]” wheels, some 3 decades ago... Wheels look strong to me, some with 14 mm axle, but there are no prices and they are in USA! (there is distributor in Germany – for Swiss... - with notice: “[/FONT]You do not have permission to view the prices[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]")[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Cassette wheels[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif] are a bad choice, because of the asymmetrical spokes and the spoke flanges very close together. Although I used such wheels on my Velocar for two years without problems (always cornered very carefully) I won't recommend such wheels.

On the other hand, look at all these [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]old Mochets[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif], with seemingly [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]normal wheels, sometimes 26"[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif].
Seems to be rigid enough.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I will know more after finishing my quadricycle, just some tuning (a day-two), but weather is too bad and too cold to work on it (at garden)... We shall see – there is empty parking place, without people wandering around – so I could press it hard to see what shall happened... [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]
Another solution would be [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]self constructed hubs[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]. With 3D-CAD you can design your own hubs. A lot of businesses around here with CNC milling machines, who are able to produce such things from a data file. You even don't have to leave the house for this. Send the file via E-mail and wait until the mail man delivers the parcel is all you have to do.
OK, I don't talk about the [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]money issue[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif] …[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Nice way, but I have to think about money – old and boring story.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Still time to think, still searching for “[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]ideal[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]” solution – we shall see...[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]Ciao, Zoran[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]

Kai[/QUOTE][/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

moto-klasika

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Hello there,
Maybe starting of this thread would lead us nowhere, or could be useful for somebody else, but gave me some joy in those cold days... (I can't work on our garden-house or HPV-quadricycle) ... Maybe I should find something good for me too, with refreshing my memory about what I know until now...


From some other forum, I found web-link for French-made (or just French selling) dirt-bike wheels. One Frenchman used them for his Cycle-Kart (scaled-down replicas of vintage GP racers), and they look strong and nice. There are dimensions from 10” to 17”, with axles of 10-15 mm and bearings of 35 mm OD... Front wheels are bigger and the biggest are of 17”, rear wheels up to 14”. Dimensions are for rim, as for cars, not outside size of tyre as for bicycles...


There are a lot of parts, too.


Here is the link:


http://www.mxunity.com/106-Jantes-Roues-completes-dirt-bike-pit-bike


Some photos are attached for illustration...
Ciao, Zoran
 

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plycar

Member
Aug 11, 2014
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Thuringia, Germany
Hello Zoran

Sources for wheels:
Trike front wheels you can purchase for example from Pedalkraft or Gingko.
The first dealer delivers reasonably priced wheels with all additional pieces.
It's IMHO the cheap and easy way.

Wheels from Gingko are more lightweight, more sophisticated, fine tuned and much more expensive.
Even the necessary backing plates needs an extra order (and of course extra costs), axles also.
But You can order Titan axles from Gingko.

Sketch:
Sorry, no sketch for explaination.
But a 12mm axle is very rigid, you wil destroy your rim before the axle will give up.

Tuff Wheels:
Yes, it's not vintage style.
I found a lot of these wheels on ebay.
Some of these seems to be just cheap reproductions.

Self made hubs:
Some people made their own hubs with just an old lathe and a drill.
I haven't done it yet, still searching for a lathe and have to learn the skills if I found one.

Regards, Kai
 

moto-klasika

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Hello Kai,
Thank you on all information!
For the start, part of text from Pedalkraft web-site
( http://www.pedalkraft.de/trike_selbstbau.htm ):
translation from German to English:

completely spoked wheels with Sturmey Archer drum brake:
bullet hub shell
bullet left and right brake disks (mirrored) 70 mm diameter
bullet 12x130 mm axle with nut
bullet suitable spacer
bullet Bremszugsteller
bullet Bremszugklemmung
bullet completely spoked with stainless steel spokes Sapim Leader 2.0 mm incl. Einspeicharbeit
bullet Rim Tape
bullet Rigida AS 32 wheel, 20 inch, silver, wide, well suited with nipple holes pecked
bullet tires not here yet

EUR 219, - / pair

Charge Sapim Strong 2.34 / 1.0 ED spoke EUR 10, -

New: 90 mm version for heavy cases with slightly increased stopping power and a much higher stability. More weight 200 grams / wheel

EUR 235, - / pair

Charge Sapim Strong 2.34 / 1.0 ED spoke EUR 10, -

only hubs, brakes and accessories without rim and Lacing:
70 mm Design EUR 119, - / pair.
90 mm Design EUR 135, - / pair

Attention velomobile: The conversion of 70 to 90 mm version is possible with some skill. The hole for the torque support is in the brake 90 mm 6 mm further from the center. Therefore, a change from 70 to 90 needs adjustment. The center hole of the brake disk can be honing accordingly (ovalized) are. Or you drill an additional hole next to it. Or modifying the steering knuckle.

Beside wheels, there is some other interesting parts to consider!
As you said, Ginko is wonderful but too expensive!
Ciao, Zoran
P.S.: As I wrote before, there are original and quality wheels for multi-wheel vehicles (now thank to you - found in Europe too), but, but....
 

moto-klasika

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Hello Zoran
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Kai,[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]And thank you on new useful information![/FONT]
Sources for wheels:
Trike front wheels you can purchase for example from Pedalkraft or Gingko. The first dealer (PedalKraft) delivers reasonably priced wheels with all additional pieces. It's IMHO the cheap and easy way. Wheels from Gingko are more lightweight, more sophisticated, fine tuned and much more expensive. Even the necessary backing plates needs an extra order (and of course extra costs), axles also. But You can order Titan axles from Gingko.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]PedalKraft could be acceptable, but for Gingko isn't for me, even if I had moeny for them...[/FONT]
Sketch:
Sorry, no sketch for explaination.
But a 12mm axle is very rigid, you will destroy your rim before the axle will give up.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]This information could return my mind toward moped TOMOS 18“ wheels with 12 mm axles, if used on quite light velocar... or, i could install ball-bearings with bigger inside diameter if vehicle is heavier... - without supporting wheels on both sides of axles, in bicycle or moped style.[/FONT]
Tuff Wheels:
Yes, it's not vintage style.
I found a lot of these wheels on ebay.
Some of these seems to be just cheap reproductions.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Original should be good but expensive and copies cheaper but of unknown quality... Style could be improved by some paint or additiona light disk over spokes...[/FONT]
Self made hubs:
Some people made their own hubs with just an old lathe and a drill.
I haven't done it yet, still searching for a lathe and have to learn the skills if I found one.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]In Belgrade I could make my own hubs of steel, if just bring simple sketch and proper bearing to a few small workshops... then to buy strong wire-spokes and good rims... I do not know to work with CAD, but in Belgrade I could find somebody who knows and who could built hubs on CNC machine...The first variant is simpler. Some hubs could be made without lathe, just by cutting and welding some tubes and flanges... That was shown at Atomic Zombi Forum - sketches and photos are attached, I hope that they will not mind.[/FONT]Regards, Kai

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Regards, Zoran[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, serif]__________________
www.plycar.blogspot.com
[/FONT]
 

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plycar

Member
Aug 11, 2014
60
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Thuringia, Germany
If you build such hubs, it may be possible to build the rear wheel also one side attached.
That means no need to demount the wheels in case of a flat tire, very practical.
Then you can weld the flanges directly to the axle tube which sticks out to one side and place both bearings there.
If you build two half axles, they can be driven via double freewheels.
A good supplier of bearings, sprockets and ball joints here in Germany is Maedler

Kai
 

moto-klasika

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Thank you, Kai!
Wonderful resource for many parts interesting for building of velocar, even heavier motored quadricycle! Prices looks to me higher a lot than in Belgrade (for ball-bearings and pillow-blocks), but who knows what quality are they there. Other parts never saw there. Here in Swiss, everything is even more expensive than in Germany... A lot of time to shall be spent for searching and calculating!
--- ---
Good ideas about rear wheels hubs/flanges - welded to axle, with bearings on it. Probably necessary to have half-shafts, with free-wheels, if not using differential (and, I should not).

Ciao, Zoran
 

Ludwig II

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Jul 17, 2012
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I spoke to Doug Pinkerton earlier, although he has a great amount of vintage bicycle spares stock, he has nothing suitable for velocars. It was worth asking though.
 

moto-klasika

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Hello Ludwig,
This Doug Pinkerton?
From Internet:


"He was almost born into cycling. His dad John ensured that bikes were the shared family hobby - no choice!
In his early 70's he, in effect, commuted from England to Australia. He rode high bikes there and track events on conventional machines. Modesty prevents him from saying that he won 5 Australian track championships and then won some more titles in the UK.
Doug launched his own restoration business in 1984 under the government Enterprise scheme. He will restore anything, high bikes to childs' trikes. All challenges are equally challenging. There is probably nobody with more intimate knowledge of the "triangulation gone mad" Dursley Pederson. He has even restored one for a Dane!

He started the Jumbles at Kidderminster in 1989 when there were only four venues.
When his dad died, his friends formed the John Pinkerton Memorial Fund. Tragically Doug's brother Dave was killed and became another focus of the Fund. One of the aims of the fund is to publish rare uncommercial cycling material. Volume 2 of Cycling Catalgues is up for reprint already.
"

A lot of information, here and there...
Ciao,
Zoran
 

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Ludwig II

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Jul 17, 2012
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That's the man. 5 World Ordinary Bicycle Championships as well. With his family, he's made a replica 16" wheel aluminium monocoque Moulton, with independent suspension at both ends that turns it into a magic carpet (I rode it half a mile). There was a front wheel drive recumbent, where the steering movement was aided by drive train flex, there were all sorts.

And he's a very nice bloke.
 

moto-klasika

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Hello,


Here is attached document with copied correspondence between Steve (FastEddy) and me, about wheels for light motorised vehicles, at our Yahoo Group Midget-Motto-Classic... There is some useful infiormation about his engine, transmission and brakes, too.

I suppose that all that could be useful here...

Ciao,


Zoran
 

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moto-klasika

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[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Curt,[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I do not like that car too much (being classic-type fan), but wheels are wonderful! [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I always thought how could I make something like that? [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hubs wide as possible, constructed in AtomicZombi style, but what for so long wire-spokes?[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]When I was a child, in our big building there was "house master" with wonderful workshop in basement. He could repair or build everything of metal and we liked to seat and watch him working... He used acetylene generator for gas stick-welding (making gas of carbide and later used big bottles). He used sticks long around one meter and thick around 3 mm ~ 1/8"... They looked as bronze or copper, but probably was some alloy. I was wondering could they (if still could be found) be used for wire-spokes? Rims with solid tyres shouldn't be problem if be legal on road...[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]
Food for brain during this long winter nights, after a lot of good food and booze...[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ciao, [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Zoran [/FONT]
 

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curtisfox

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2008
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Hi Ciao
Yes i don't like that car eather just poseted it as good idea for the wheels,would use some heavier rubber tire though. I know that Schwinn west coast choppers with the fat tires has a nice wide center in them. And they are starting to show up at swap meats fairly cheep. I maybe see what i can find instead of building Atomic Zombie's. I do have a torch setup and that is the first welder and the only one for years. Now have a mig welder also. Thanks for the pictures as it gave me a idea for the cutting tip with the wheel guide for cutting ..............Curt
 

moto-klasika

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... cute sytem for good cutting of metal plates? I enjoy to watch a few masters rolling that small "car" over plates!

I found on interent some interesting long sticks (in Serbia), of various materials including inox, dimensions from 2.5 to 3.5 mm (around 1/8", more or less)... Prices are per kilogram, so I could check when visit Belgrade this Spring. (if still have interest in that way of building wheels). With wide hubs, they could be really big? Tyres stronger, of course!

Zoran
 
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