Friction Drive VS Chain... which one is better?

happyvalley · May 29, 2011

miamiRiding said:
pic of the bike... i think i want to get a longer u bracket so that the engine sits more level... any thoughts on that being worth my trouble

Definitely get the longer bracket or the extensions. Not sure how handy you want to be but you can fab extensions pretty easily yourself with flat stock from a hardware store and use a cross bolt to firm it up..
These EHO35s don't have an oil pump so they are not really all position engines but best used fairly level.

dtj6ppc · May 30, 2011

happyvalley said:
Definitely get the longer bracket or the extensions. Not sure how handy you want to be but you can fab extensions pretty easily yourself with flat stock from a hardware store and use a cross bolt to firm it up..
These EHO35s don't have an oil pump so they are not really all position engines but best used fairly level.

Wonder how the oil gets from the crankcase to the head rocker arm area?...............Don

moonshiner · May 30, 2011

yeah level is good , but i was told that the Subaru Robin and Honda 25 to 35 cc motors have a pressurized lubrication system , roller bearings and are used for weed whackers , that are run in various positions , the thing you really have to be careful about is getting too much oil in it , fill it up with oil when its level , if you overfill it , it will vomit oil into your carb and cause it to stall ..

Keith
cvlt1

Mike B · May 30, 2011

If it's not somewhat level, how will you ever know how much oil is in it?

gobigkahuna · May 30, 2011

The Robin EH035 is designed to be operated at any angle (from the service manual available on the Subaru Robin website):

Lubrication inside the cylinder is carried out with a sufficient volume of oil, irrespective of the position of the engine, and there is no risk of engine seizure, wear and other similar problems caused by improper lubrication. The oil volume supplied into the cam gear compartment and into the rocker arm compart- ment is limited to an appropriate amount, to minimize the oil consumption.

But as Mike B suggests you'll only be able to top off the fuel and oil levels if the engine is level.

wayne z · May 30, 2011

miamiRiding said:
-kerf: thanks! i definitely agree

-bigkahuna: i went w the 1 3/8 inch roller, i live in miami so there are NO hills and i plan on pedaling to get her started each time so it works... you prbbly went w a good roller for what u need

-wayne: would you suggest to change out the synthetic for some conventional then? or would it just take longer to break in?

Read this:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.html

happyvalley · May 30, 2011

happyvalley said:
These EHO35s don't have an oil pump so they are not really all position engines but best used fairly level.

dtj6ppc said:
Wonder how the oil gets from the crankcase to the head rocker arm area?...............Don

The oil is held in a separate compartment then circulated via a valved oil pick-up line and distributed throughout the engine by pressure variations in the crankcase created by the piston stroke.

gobigkahuna said:
The Robin EH035 is designed to be operated at any angle (from the service manual available on the Subaru Robin website):

Heh, of course they state that but they also used to state the EHO series had a cast iron cylinder liner up until about a year and a half ago when I pressed an engine tech support guy on it repeatedly after tearing down a couple of engines with pics and then they changed that to read chromed cylinder shortly after. Actually they've been quite good after I found one guy who really knows these mini engines, we've exchanged dozens of emails.

These are some of my favorite engines so don't get me wrong but note the service manual says:

4-STROKE ENGINE ALLOWING OPERATION IN THE TILTED POSITION, REQUIRED IN BRUSH CUTTING WORK AND OTHER SIMILAR APPLICATIONS

Brush cutting or similar applications has implied use of swinging and returning to a near level position periodically and regularly on intermittent use. This is not meant to be a knock or suggest they are misleading but think of the inherent motions of that application. My comments are meant for users to get max life and enjoyment from the engine and for sustained and fairly hard continual duty applications like on a motorized bike, my considered opinion is to keep the engine mounting as level as possible.

These are good quality engines but they have a couple few quirks:....piston carbonizing, air filter flow, hidden fuel filter in the carb, removing all oil when changing, spark arrester in muffler, etc....There are remedies to these quirks I've encountered after extended use and disassemby and that attention and maintenance can defer. I'll look for spots on threads to write about those when it comes up. Until recently there hasn't been a whole lot of discussion concerning these engines on this board.

virginian · May 30, 2011

I have a GEBE system with a 32 Tanaka engine. I love it.

It has been totally reliable. I have ridden it for over 4000 miles and it has never broken down or left me stranded. (I did buy their heavy duty rear wheel.)

It is fast - 30 mph on the flats.

It was easy to assemble. It runs relatively quietly.

It is expensive, but it is good quality if you can afford it.

NEAT TIMES · May 30, 2011

Hi fellow mab`ers

Also have several different drive type builds.

Was pleasantly impressed by my diy axle mount drive performace.

My intention was to assemble a cost effective dependable low maintanence mab. Do believe I accomplished my goal.

Used a 49cc 2 stroke pull start scooter type motor with the 5:1 mini gear box that bolts to many different current motors, both 2 & 4 stroke. Have one of the 5:1 trannys on my titan 4 stroke shifter bike (a well made unit with the 78mm clutch drum).

Has a 18:1 final drive ratio. Clocked it @ 35 mph with 180# driver on level blk top road during first 10 minutes of operation.

It was a very easy build. Bought a used electric cartridge motor axle drive bicycle for $50. Removed the electric 24 volt motor.

Drilled 4 holes to fit the tranny bolts and attached motor and tranny. Bolted a 48 tooth sprocket to the 22 tooth left hand freewheel sprocket that came on the bicycle and added longer chain, throttle and kill switch.

The axle mount looks a bit different at first, it grows on a person after a ride.

Can`t re-post pics here, already posted else where in this forum.

No matter the type of build, enjoy a great hobbie/sport! Ron . cvlt1

spad4me · May 30, 2011

Friction drive --Do you live in a place with flat DRY roads.
Chain drive -- good anywhere.
Gebe too expensive too fragile for me. You need his rear wheel,axle spoke setup , with the flimsy drive ring epoxied on by him.
The belt will wear out often, And require constant adjustments to lessen the wear.
Experimental setup with engine mounted to the rear axle and one stay ????????????????????????????????????

I use a scooterguy type setup I have $700.00 total in the bike, engine front and rear grocery baskets good rims and tires, nice seat and very good 55 watt headlight with led tail light.
No peddling at all .
It will easy do the legal limit, As well as keep up with traffic if I want to.

NEAT TIMES · May 31, 2011

spad

if you are dissing my axle mount you are way out of line. if i state that something is solid and works good, then that is a fact.

i have never tried too sell any of my builds or parts. not tried to sell anything to anybody.

last week some guys were posting how they could not find a morini motor anywhere, i posted that i might sell mine. they got as quiet as mice.

raced late model stock car for 25 years. won my share of races. built and drove my own cars. built my own 700 hp big block fords. Dick Trickle called for answers, a good friend. built my own cars, did all the chassis set up. my last car was what is currently being run on the short tracks all over the country. small block chevy, coil over suspension all all 4 corners. light weight chassis with aluminum body all my cars were set up on my 4 scales with diagonal settings, front to rear weigh percentages, left side to right side percentages. left and right front wheel weight percentages. left and right rear wheel weight percentages. diagonal wedge left rear to right front wheel. negative and positive camber and caster in left wheel.

of all the scooter guy type mounts mine is bar far the most trouble free functional of many of them. mine don`t look like an erector set build. i did not clean up the engine plate for looks, but it is basic and stable. my clamps don`t mare or damage the frame. the mount clamps and motor plate cost me less than $20. and nobody has a mount to beat it for function, durability. and cost. my cvt mount build is as clean and functional as any i have seen.

what do i see here a green eyed monster? put a bunch of question marks about my build, forget you. why are you such an expert all of a sudden. the axle mount worked with out one adjustment since the motor was started. need a line of question marks after you!!!!!!!!!!!! what do you think about when you don`t know anything!

anything i post is to share or show options for builds and what i feel is a decent option.

Ron posted pictures so they don`t remain "unproven"?????????????????????? JEEEESSSSSH

scotto- · May 31, 2011

Question: Friction Drive VS Chain... which one is better?

Answer: Chain Drive....period!

dnut

kerf · May 31, 2011

scotto- said:
Question: Friction Drive VS Chain... which one is better?

Answer: Chain Drive....period!

[/QUOTE

I have built three FD bikes and three CD bikes (none of them China Girl) and don't share your cut and dried conclusion. Yes the chain drive has many good attributes, such as efficiency and positive drive but they come at a cost. That cost is more weight, more complexity, more cost and more noise. My current bike is running a CVT chain drive through a freewheel, powered by an 11,000 rpm, 4.2 hp two stroke. Operates pretty much like any factory moped, I like it. My wife won't ride it, she loves her Staton FD. She says that my bike is too big, too heavy and too noisy.

Different strokes for different folks!

NEAT TIMES · May 31, 2011

neat times said:
spad

if you are dissing my axle mount you are way out of line. If i state that something is solid and works good, then that is a fact.

I have never tried too sell any of my builds or parts. Not tried to sell anything to anybody.

Last week some guys were posting how they could not find a morini motor anywhere, i posted that i might sell mine. They got as quiet as mice.

Raced late model stock car for 25 years. Won my share of races. Built and drove my own cars. Built my own 700 hp big block fords. Dick trickle called for answers, a good friend. Built my own cars, did all the chassis set up. My last car was what is currently being run on the short tracks all over the country. Small block chevy, coil over suspension all all 4 corners. Light weight chassis with aluminum body all my cars were set up on my 4 scales with diagonal settings, front to rear weigh percentages, left side to right side percentages. Left and right front wheel weight percentages. Left and right rear wheel weight percentages. Diagonal wedge left rear to right front wheel. Negative and positive camber and caster in left wheel.

Of all the scooter guy type mounts mine is bar far the most trouble free functional of many of them. Mine don`t look like an erector set build. I did not clean up the engine plate for looks, but it is basic and stable. My clamps don`t mare or damage the frame. The mount clamps and motor plate cost me less than $20. And nobody has a mount to beat it for function, durability. And cost. My cvt mount build is as clean and functional as any i have seen.

What do i see here a green eyed monster? Put a bunch of question marks about my build, forget you. Why are you such an expert all of a sudden. The axle mount worked with out one adjustment since the motor was started. Need a line of question marks after you!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you think about when you don`t know anything!

Anything i post is to share or show options for builds and what i feel is a decent option.

Ron posted pictures so they don`t remain "unproven"?????????????????????? Jeeeesssssh

my first try with the quote thingy, don`t want my statements to go "unproven" jeeeesssh!

MORE PICS IN POST 31, APOLOGIZE FOR THE RANT, DON`T LIKE BEING CALLED "UNPROVEN"

kerf · May 31, 2011

NEAT TIMES said:
my first try with the quote thingy, don`t want my statements to go "unproven" jeeeesssh!

MORE PICS IN POST 31, APOLOGIZE FOR THE RANT, DON`T LIKE BEING CALLED "UNPROVEN"

You're certainly not unproven to me, I've seen your work and we've collaborated on mine. You are certainly not limited to kit building, as much if not all of your work I've seen, has been totally custom fabricated, fine work too. Lets see, I believe frigging genius fit just about right.

NEAT TIMES · May 31, 2011

HEY kerf,

Thanks for the kind words. Funny how things go sometines. May be taking a trip up north and was thinking of stopping by to say hi to you!! Now i need to be sure i do, it will be a few month`s yet. my curser is not moving with my texting, going to restart pc.

NOW IT HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM "UNPROVEN" TO "EXPERIMENTAL" ?????????????????
THAT WOULD NOT MAKE MY MOTHER PROUD!! THAT IS ALSO A FACT.

RON

Mike B · May 31, 2011

I love my flea power friction drive. It's quiet and smooth.

And it can go faster than I can pedal in 3rd gear on a 3 speed hub.

Which is just as fast as I want to go on a bicycle -

My happy time has more power and I like that I can pop the clutch, give it the gas and it just takes off. It can go way faster than 25, but it shakes so much that I don't want to go there.

My friction drive comes up to speed much more slowly and it can just go 25 flat out. But it is so smooth and quiet and devoid of mechanical noise that I could easily go faster.

This stuff is a lot of fun to play with.

NEAT TIMES · May 31, 2011

Mike b

be careful, it is addictive. Now there is about 65 bicycles and 40 plus motors for mab builds at my "bicycle farm" as my friend calls it.. I spent most my money on bikes and motors, the rest i just wasted!

Fd or chain drive ?? Nothing wrong with two of each !! Lol. Did you notice my avatar?? it is a good copy of my cvt build, made for me by hiker. Hiker made many of the imoticons we have. a lot of hours invested for our fun.

scotto- · Jun 1, 2011

Wonder what your wife would say about this? YouTube - ‪Sound of 5hp.wmv‬&rlm; Three chains to be....any question?

kerf said:
scotto- said:

Question: Friction Drive VS Chain... which one is better?

Answer: Chain Drive....period!

[/QUOTE

I have built three FD bikes and three CD bikes (none of them China Girl) and don't share your cut and dried conclusion. Yes the chain drive has many good attributes, such as efficiency and positive drive but they come at a cost. That cost is more weight, more complexity, more cost and more noise. My current bike is running a CVT chain drive through a freewheel, powered by an 11,000 rpm, 4.2 hp two stroke. Operates pretty much like any factory moped, I like it. My wife won't ride it, she loves her Staton FD. She says that my bike is too big, too heavy and too noisy.

Different strokes for different folks!

Click to expand...

Yes, to each their own.....was just simply answering the question. As much as I hate chains, the chain drive is superior in every way and until a good drive-shaft (not friction) system gets invented thats worthy, it's chains and belts for me, no FD thanks. Friction drives won't and don't win races and that's a fact.

And my 2-strokes 13,000-20,000rpm w/5+hp.....watch here: YouTube - ‪Tuned Exhaust on a 2-Stroke VTS_01_1.VOB‬&rlm;

thatsdax · Jun 1, 2011

The Math supports my Testing. Using a 1.25 inch roller and a Titan XC50, I can cruise 24-26 mph and my top speed will be around 32mph. With the 2 stroke and same size roller, I can hit 36-38 mph. But of course.. The 2 stroke can scream compared to the 4 stroke. Cruise on the 2 stroke is 32-34 mph all day... Using the rear mount chain drive, you can do what ever gearing you like. Since the Chain is more efficent, you can get more speed and power. The Friction Drive is more solid and more connected. I use police tires From Kenda, normally I would get 1,300 miles from a tire. With friction drive rollers I use, I will get 1000 miles or so. So the rollers we use do cut down on miles but not a whole lot. I have never experienced any tire shredding that others have in here but then again, I have only used the rollers I have made and use and these work well wet or dry. Chances are, your tire will slip on the pavement before they will slip against my roller. Also. The Friction Drive is the easist to install by far, requiring only a few tools and 45min to an hour and then you are flying !! And the connection between rider, bike and road is superior !! It is the best feeling of any setup I have ever ridden. Precise, tight, and confidence inspired. The chain drive is harder to install, requires chain maintenance and also install savvay to align. But.. The chain drive is much more efficent and for those that have a need for speed the way to go. Chain drive also works well in cruddy areas where mud, snow, and other elements are in the way and need to be driven through without concern. The rear mount chain drive is much eaiser to install than any In frame mount and requires only a couple of hours to install. Both chain and friction have superior attributes. For novices and experts alike, the Friction Drive is a great way to go !! The rear mount chain drive is a great way to go for those wanting the most speed and power. Also. The chain drive is all that can work for some bikes like recumbents and other where the frame will not allow for a Press Roller Fitting. Enjoy the ride...

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