Inner ring as full float wrist pin bearing?

GoldenMotor.com

Wrist pin bearing preference? Choose one.

  • Inner ring for needle bearings, oil holed, full float.

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Stick to caged needle bearings.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Cageless Needle bearings, drawn cup

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stick to cast bronze bushings

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Technocyclist

Motorized Bicycle Senior Technologist
Jul 7, 2008
462
0
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Asia
Has anybody here ever tried to use the inner ring of needle bearings to work as a full float wrist pin bearing? it fits seamlessly with the pin and the connecting rod. The size would be 10 x 14 x (14 or 16 with piston modification to fit). Some apprehensions are that it might shatter and might be too brittle for this purpose. It might seize at high temperatures or high rpm...

On the good side, it might extend engine life... probably less catastrophic than needle bearings when it get between the piston and the cylinder.

For those who are not familiar...
 

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rogergendron1

New Member
Sep 18, 2013
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woburn ma
i have been looking to replace my cheap needle bearings with a nice brass bushing but something like this wouls be ideal ... plz post more pics, parts, ideas, and your results if you are using this setup .
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
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SoCal Baby!!!
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i have been looking to replace my cheap needle bearings with a nice brass bushing.
You gotta be kidding us right?

A decent Chinese needle bearing is superior to a "nice" brass bushing.

The Chinese needle bearings in my new motors are good quality and do not fail partly because they are well lubricated through the 3 oiling holes in the connecting rod end.
 

Technocyclist

Motorized Bicycle Senior Technologist
Jul 7, 2008
462
0
0
Asia
There has been quite a debate between needle bearings and bushings.

http://juicemotoparts.com/bearvsbushing

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,27783

It seems that this set up is usually used for 4 stroke engines.

I've tested hooking up the wrist pin to a power drill and spin it on the connecting rod with the inner ring, and the connecting rod. It seems there is not much friction heat, so i heated it up with a small torch to see if it would seize, but still seems to be ok... (tested with a infrared gun)

In terms of thermal capacity, steel retains more heat than bronze.

In terms of thermal expansion, bronze expands more than steel.

If you haven't experienced needle bearings getting disintegrated in an engine. Those little needle bearings are a real pain.

If you have been riding for more than 3,000 kms or so with the engine on, then maybe you need to check those needle bearings. Because, it's usually at this point they start to disintegrate. It would feel as if the engine has more power, then starts to stall. It would still start but would not sustain an idling rpm. If you're experiencing some of these symptoms, maybe you should check those wrist pin bearings.

There are 2 manufacturers for this inner rings, INA and KOYO. INA is a German company, while KOYO is Japanese. The ratings are not really specified because it depends highly on the type of lubrication.

When using Bronze bushings, make sure it is cast bronze coz it's rated to work 500 deg Celsius, powder bronze is rated only at 120 deg Celsius. There are also Oil less bushing designs. Most needle bearings are also rated to perform at 120 deg Celsius.

I'll try to post some pics and possibly a video of the comparison. I'm haven't reassembled my engines yet...
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
Has anybody here ever tried to use the inner ring of needle bearings to work as a full float wrist pin bearing? it fits seamlessly with the pin and the connecting rod. The size would be 10 x 14 x (14 or 16 with piston modification to fit). Some apprehensions are that it might shatter and might be too brittle for this purpose. It might seize at high temperatures or high rpm...

On the good side, it might extend engine life... probably less catastrophic than needle bearings when it get between the piston and the cylinder.

For those who are not familiar...
Please give a link to the manufacturers web site with all the specs.
What rpm is the bearing rated for?
Applications?

Looks like it might not be lubricated properly installed in a connecting rod.

Do any engines use this type of bearing?
If they aren't used in small motorcycle engines there are probably good reasons.
 
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rogergendron1

New Member
Sep 18, 2013
882
2
0
42
woburn ma
You gotta be kidding us right?

A decent Chinese needle bearing is superior to a "nice" brass bushing.

The Chinese needle bearings in my new motors are good quality and do not fail partly because they are well lubricated through the 3 oiling holes in the connecting rod end.
lol my bad....... bronze bushing ... my dad raced tractors at the fair doing tractor pulls with a few cub cadet tractors he built with tech flat head motors. those things turned srs rpms and had unreal horse power ! the tires would shoot mud 12 feet in the air when they spun out pulling the 1,000lb sled !!!

they all had machined bronze bushings or strait up wrist pins. never did he have a failure at the wrist pin even at rediculus rpms under extreem load.
 

rogergendron1

New Member
Sep 18, 2013
882
2
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woburn ma
any one know if this will fit ??? custom motored bikes .com has them in stock !

BRASS BUSHING,older motors came with a brass bushing for wrist pin at piston. Some people say that these motors were faster and if the brass bushing failed it did not rip up the inside of the motors like the needle bearing cage would.10.1mm inner diameter,14mm outer diameter,10mm wide.$7.00
 

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sublunacy

New Member
Sep 12, 2013
90
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ontario
the only thing wrong is the piston pin is only 10mm od. brass bushings are great when oiled such as 4 strokes. people w diplomas will say the same as i have my diploma :)
sell that....cant cause its stock......more money than brains.....
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
The early brass bushing engines were the best fastest engines I had when I think about it. When I tore them down it was a wore out jug. Jugs are another week point IMHO. My brass Bushings are still cherry!
 

Theon

New Member
Jan 20, 2014
1,440
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FNQ Australia
I've got a crank with a big end brass bush but needle roller wrist pin, are they OK?
My GT5 crank is **** so was thinking of giving the bushed crank a run.
But won't be trying to get 3000 miles out of it, would like to be able to get good revs though.
Someone told me to chuck it away, but I got a feeling it's going to be a better crank than the GT5 and it takes a standard piston which is a bonus.