use and charge battery at the same time?

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jolfstn

jolfstn

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Oct 30, 2011
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Seattle, WA
I did search and did not find this question posed exactly this way, but if I didn't search well enough forgive me. I am building my own lighting system (hi/low beams, turn signal, brake light, running lights) plus horn, planning on using 12v SLA to power the system and ebay white wire charger. I have yet to have found a straight answer as to whether a battery can be charged and used at the same time. If I hook the white wire charger eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices directly to the battery and my lighting system to the battery, would not the light/horn system wind up bypassing the battery and drawing from the magneto wire, most likely drawing too much current and messing up my spark? My goal is to have the charger charge the battery and while it's being charged, the battery to run my lights/horn. I was considering a 2 battery system whereas 1 battery is hooked to the charger and the other, previously charged battery is hooked up to lights/horn, and when that gets depleted, to switch depleted battery to charger and previously charging battery to lights. This is not my 1st choice due to expense of batteries, plus added space used and weight. They do make fairly small, inexpensive SLAs but if it could be done with 1 battery that would be ideal. Do any of you have experience with this? Thanks in advance for any insight. Obviously I have none but the most basic understanding of circuitry but one way or another I'm sure I can make it work.
 
thegnu

thegnu

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Sep 15, 2011
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I also have seen many posts on this , the way you are describing is very similar to my existing set up , as far as the white wire goes , I built a bridge rectifier an I am now in the process of figuring out some kind of voltage regulator , which as I have been told is the key to making this work , I have also been told to watch how much load you put on that white wire so you do not over draw an rob power from your magneto .
the most logical Idea I have seen yet uses a brushless motor found at hobby an r/c shops they can run as a generator . but I am no electrical engineer an preety much learning all this on the fly like you . good luck .
 
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Kahlas

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Nov 27, 2011
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I have no idea but after reading the forums I decided along time ago to not even try to rob spark from my motor to power my lights. I've got a post in this forum that has to deal with the same setup you're talking about but with a generator from a Kabuto lawn tractor. Someone pointed it out for me it's 12 volt 14 amps which is overkill for what I need. I know the price is a bit steep but I'm figuring it should last a few years for me, probably outlast the frame honestly.
As a mechanic for 12 years and current Mechanical Engineering Student I can't see how robbing just a bit of juice from the plug won't cause some sort of change in the way your compression stroke happens. Whether it will be too cold, too hot, too early, or too slow. I cannot imagine the engine is going to work exactly as intended. I don't like finding out I caused premature wear so I said screw it and decided on going the genny route.
 
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diceman2004

diceman2004

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Aug 26, 2009
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Think of electricity as the same way that plumbing works .
Many of the principals are the same ... amps = water preasure ... volts = pipe diameter ... watts = flow

Lets just say that your ( happytime ) is your house ...
in this case ... i,de probably be pretty safe to say that we live in the poorer end of town , where the water preasure ain't that great to begin with .

OK , that being said ..
Think of the black and blue wires as your hot and cold water for the shower .
And think of the white wire as the water to the toilet .

We all know what happens when the old lady flushes the toilet when we're in the shower . right ?

So , she gets slapped , calls the cops , baby is crying , blah blah blah .
Cops show up and say ( why you here when your on parole and have a restraining order ... madam is that baby ok ? )
( NO no no .. its ok .. old lady flushed the toilet , got herself slapped , and she was too busy callin you guys to give the kid juice )

Kinda the same as when theres not enough current for the spark plug .

Old lady = magneto
Baby = spark plug

No but seriously you shouldn"t have a problem if you use LED's and just want to keep a battery charged ( LED's don't draw a lot of current ) you'll need a batery isolator of some kind . make oe or buy one ( can't see why a 12v RV battery isolator would,t work on 6 volts )
 
robbomberbomyea

robbomberbomyea

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Dec 10, 2011
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found just what your looking for on ebay.not sure how to post the link.but the store on ebay is" wonderful creations".the magneto charger works off the white wire.or you can upgrade to 12 volt system.complete packages or seperate.item number on ebay for use of stock wire is:400109389682.hope this works im getting one.
 
jolfstn

jolfstn

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Oct 30, 2011
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Seattle, WA
Robbomberbomyea: have you gotten your light kit yet? did it work? I'm thinking about it but it's more than I care to spend.
 
robbomberbomyea

robbomberbomyea

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Dec 10, 2011
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prob wont buy it till mid jan.due to bills,but soon as i do ill start a thread about the install.i cant wait.think ill try the cheap 6 volt system that works off the stock white wire,then if im not happy iil try the 12volt system with the mini gen.
 
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Bobbah90

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Nov 8, 2012
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robbomberbomyea said:
prob wont buy it till mid jan.due to bills,but soon as i do ill start a thread about the install.i cant wait.think ill try the cheap 6 volt system that works off the stock white wire,then if im not happy iil try the 12volt system with the mini gen.
Click to expand...
Did anyone ever run that 12 volt coil? I want to know if its worth the crazy price the ebay guy is charging or not.
 
mew905

mew905

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Sep 24, 2012
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Moose Jaw
I bookmarked it because I want one as well http://stores.ebay.com/WONDERFUL-CREATIONS-STORE?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

The reason thegnu needs a voltage regulator is because the output voltage varies wildly with the revs, the white wire (if I recall) outputs 6-9v AC, logically these mini gens will do the same thing, and because its a rotating magneto WITHOUT brushes, these mini gen's are AC current as well (they actually mention that on the page too, just search the page [CTRL+F] for "DC" and you'll find that it says the generators output AC), so you'll still need a rectifier (to make DC), and a voltage regulator depending on what batteries you're charging, which is why their battery chargers are more expensive than their mini gens.

Because it is an entirely different coil using an entirely different wiring setup, the mini gen charging a battery/light set up should not affect your spark plug at all, however the rotating magnet has additional resistance now from the second coil [its the resistance that produces energy], it will rob a TINY amount of horsepower, those of you who are worried about this, dont, its a tiny magnet and a tiny coil, you wont even feel a difference
 
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bigbutterbean

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Jan 31, 2011
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cant use a 6v charger to charge a 12v battery. You will never get a full charge to begin with, You will always be using more juice than the battery is getting, and you will drastically reduce the life of the battery by doing this.
 
mew905

mew905

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Sep 24, 2012
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bigbutterbean said:
cant use a 6v charger to charge a 12v battery. You will never get a full charge to begin with, You will always be using more juice than the battery is getting, and you will drastically reduce the life of the battery by doing this.
Click to expand...
They have 12v mini gens too, still need a rectifier though, their battery chage kits just charge three AA NiMH batteries, which would be more than enough to power some LEDs for a while (though i think thats used in conjunction with the 6v generator kit)
 
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bigbutterbean

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I know, but he linked to the 6v charger. If its being marketed and sold as a battery charger, then it OUGHT to have a rectifier built in. I stress ought to, because we all know that not everything sold in this hobby is what it ought to be, lol. Also, NiMH batteries charge differently than Nicads, and if its made specifically to charge NiMH, it will explode a nicad or sla, at least according to what I have been told.
 
mew905

mew905

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Sep 24, 2012
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bigbutterbean said:
I know, but he linked to the 6v charger. If its being marketed and sold as a battery charger, then it OUGHT to have a rectifier built in. I stress ought to, because we all know that not everything sold in this hobby is what it ought to be, lol. Also, NiMH batteries charge differently than Nicads, and if its made specifically to charge NiMH, it will explode a nicad or sla, at least according to what I have been told.
Click to expand...
I havent read up much on NiMH vs NiCaD or SLA, all I know is LiIon are the batteries that love to explode if improperly charged or even get warm, apple stopped using LiIon for that reason (people's iPods were exploding in their pockets). NiMH as far as I know are pretty forgiving.
 
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bigbutterbean

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Jan 31, 2011
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No, what I meant was that I was told if you charge a nicad on a NiMH charger, the nicad would explode. I dont know if its true. My wife's brother in law gave me a 7.2v nicad and a charger that charges both nicads and NiMH. he said if I accidentally switched it to NiMH to charge a nicad and left it that way too long, it would explode. Perhaps NiMH charge faster than nicads and that could be the reason? I'm not sure, just going by what he told me and charging the nicad on the nicad setting.
 
mew905

mew905

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Sep 24, 2012
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could be, most batteries if improperly charged will be damaged in some way, thats why you're supposed to condition cell phone batteries to start. I know alkaline batteries will leak if you charge them, LiIons (Lithium ION) will explode unless you essentially trickle charge them, NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride) were rated pretty safe last I heard, and NiCAD (Nickel Cadmium) I actually havent seen in a long time. turns out my cell phone's battery (built in 2011) is LiION though, and the thing gets hot alot thanks to it's dual core processor... scary...
 
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