Final word on Florida Motorbicycling laws.. Registration and Driver's License laws...

SANGESF said:

All
After it's all said and done...

You can NOT legally register a bicycle with a gas motor attached of ANY size, NOR may you ride it (under motor power) on public roads.
(This is, of course, unless you've already had it registered as a homemade moped, then I would guess you would be grandfathered in.)
For those already grandfathered in, you need a Class E driver's license to operate your moped on public roads.

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SANGESF said:

Actually, it was a "big secret" since we've all been having lively discussions about it.

I WANTED to use a gas motor..
HAD to make SURE I could, without a license or registration.
That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
I was HOPING to get a different answer, than I did.
Didn't turn out that way.
Every time I was told I didn't need one, I asked that person to send me an official, signed document stating as such.
When I DID finally receive a letter (actually two) from the people who stated I didn't need a license, the letter stating NOTHING about a gas motor or drivers license. When I asked for a letter with statements including gas and no license, I was told to email their supervisor for that..
That turned into going up the ladder at the DMV, little by little, until I broke down and just emailed the Executive Director. The Executive Director, sent my email to her direct subordinate who gave me the answers I posed an posted here.

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Electric Motorized Chopper - Electric Schwinn Stingray, Powered by Two 36v LiFePO4 20AH batteries and Two 36v 350w motors.
Total charge time from dead battery = 3.5 hrs.
Total distance capable = 80 miles (@20mph) or 117 miles (@16mph)

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SANGESF said:

All,

** This is the final word direct from the Executive Director at the Florida HSMV (DMV)...

Emails over a weeks time have gotten these answers...


Good Afternoon,
*
I will address your latest concerns . . . in red, below.
*
You stated . . .
Ms. Adams,
*
I am confused . . .
*
On one hand you state that adding a gas powered motor does not make a bike street legal, but in the next paragraph, you state that Florida Statutes permit a person to operate a bicycle that cannot propel faster than 20mph, without a DL.
*
Response: *Ms. Adams/Ms. Lambert stated:
*
“Bicycles are not manufactured for use on highways. *Adding a gas powered motor does not make a bicycle street legal, as there are other requirements that must be met, such as frame assembly and safety features. *Bicycles are not titled or registered.
*
Florida Statutes permits a person to operate a bicycle that cannot propel faster than 20 miles per hour, without a regular Class E driver license.”
*
To elaborate, Florida Statutes permits a person, if at least 16 years old, to operate a bicycle with an electric helper-motor (not gas powered because gas powered bicycles are not street legal and cannot be ridden on the streets) not capable of propelling the bicycle faster than 20 mph on level ground (322.03(1), 322.01(26) and 316.003(2), Florida Statutes).
*
Can you see where I’m confused?
A gas powered motor (incapable of greater than 20mph) does not make it street legal, but the statutes say an electric bicycle with the same stipulations does make it street legal.
*
Response: *Again, gas powered bicycles are not street legal and are therefore, not legally allowed on the roads/streets.
*
As you can see, there seems to be confusion when asking specifically about gas powered motors on bicycles.
*
The assumption I have is that if you add a gas powered motor to a bicycle, it’s not street legal, but if you add an electric motor, it is. *(According to 316.003(2))
*
Response: *Yes.
*
I have asked specific questions and as of yet, no one has been able to give me specific answers . . .
*
If you can, please provide specific answers to each of the below questions . . . .
The following questions are still unclear . . .
*
1. * * * What size gas powered engine is allowed on a bicycle.

Answer: *None, legally.

1a. *If a bicycle has a 49cc engine, is there a Class E drivers license required?
Answer: *Gas powered bicycles are not legally allowed on the road.

2. * * * Is there any situation that would allow the use of a gas powered engine on a bicycle without the need for a Class E DL?

Answer: *See answer to 1a, above.

3. * * * If a bicycle with an electric helper motor that allows it to be capable of greater than 20mph need a Class E drivers license?

Answer: *Yes.

*
If you have additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me directly at 850.617.2528, or the FRTP Program Manager, Kip Bickford, at 863.419.3420 (ext. 2).
*
*
BE SAFE, HAVE FUN – ENJOY THE RIDE!!
FLORIDA RIDER TRAINING PROGRAM
Bureau of Motorist Compliance
2900 Apalachee Parkway
Room A201, Mail Station #88
Tallahassee, Florida *32399
(850) 617-2528
Fax. 850-617-5172
Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles - Florida Rider Training Program
*
*
The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles is committed to Service, Integrity, Courtesy, Professionalism, Innovation and Excellence in all we do. Please let us know how we are doing via our online customer service survey at Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
*


After it's all said and done...

You can NOT legally register a bicycle with a gas motor attached of ANY size, NOR may you ride it (under motor power) on public roads.
(This is, of course, unless you've already had it registered as a homemade moped, then I would guess you would be grandfathered in.)
For those already grandfathered in, you need a Class E driver's license to operate your moped on public roads.

Click to expand...

SANGESF said:

Actually, it was a "big secret" since we've all been having lively discussions about it.

I WANTED to use a gas motor..
HAD to make SURE I could, without a license or registration.
That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
I was HOPING to get a different answer, than I did.
Didn't turn out that way.
Every time I was told I didn't need one, I asked that person to send me an official, signed document stating as such.
When I DID finally receive a letter (actually two) from the people who stated I didn't need a license, the letter stating NOTHING about a gas motor or drivers license. When I asked for a letter with statements including gas and no license, I was told to email their supervisor for that..
That turned into going up the ladder at the DMV, little by little, until I broke down and just emailed the Executive Director. The Executive Director, sent my email to her direct subordinate who gave me the answers I posed an posted here.

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SANGESF said:

The problem stems from this...
1. Someone says.. Here are the Florida statutes.. This is what the statutes say.. (insert whatever statute you want). Someone else says... Well, forget the statutes.. The statutes don't say anything about a gas powered bicycle, it matters what the DMV says..

2. Someone says... Okay, here is what the DMV says..(insert DMV info). Someone else says.. It doesn't matter what the DMV says, it's what the statutes say...

People tend to want to take a small part from one thing and small part from another thing and a small part from something else altogether, to fit into what they want to be the "truth".

There have been anecdotal stories about many court decisions. Once the actual facts come out, they tend to go against registration and licensing of gas powered bicycles.
I personally have NOT seen ONE court decision that has stated clearly that you are allowed to ride a gas powered bicycle (under power) on public roads and/or operate it without a license. The DMV powers that be, have confirmed this with their correspondence with me.

Anyone else can take away whatever they want from all this discussion or ask their own questions and contact the DMV or state legislature themselves and get their own answers OR don't be bothered with any of it and just do whatever you want to do and reap whatever consequences, if there are any.

ON A PERSONAL NOTE:
I don't understand the problem...
Why are people so "angry"? Don't you want to know what the law is? Isn't that the point? Everyone keeps complaining like little babies. The laws are written, there are some "grey" areas, people had some conjecture as to what the law is. Some people posted letters from DMV officials stating things, I emailed those same people and got the same responses. I asked for documentation stating as such and got something different. I WAS ASKED to dig deeper and contact the HEAD of the DMV. I got the answers and posted here. If you don't like the answers, go find out for yourself, instead of taking other people's word. Get DOCUMENTATION, and USE that documentation for your own needs.
It seems that people think I have an agenda...
CORRECT!! My "agenda" was to find out for myself EXACTLY what the law is, what the facts are, and get documentation.
Now, it seems to me, that there are 2 other kinds of people here with these agendas...
1.) Gas motor sellers... They dont care what the laws are, they only want to sell their product.
2.) Some without licenses... Want to skirt around the law by using conjecture and not fact.


There is NO current STATUTE about registration of a gas powered bicycle. NONE.
So you either have to reference the Moped STATUTE (which would require registration and license) OR the Bicycle STATUTE (which would limit CAPABLE speed to 20mph)
If you are going to use neither, you must reference what the HSMV states. The (current) PDF from the HSMV asks a question about gas motors, yet answers with a statement referencing bicycles with ELECTRIC motors. Another poster posted an email from an HSMV employee stating no license needed, so I asked for documentation from that person and got nothing about gas motors or licensing requirements. When I asked for a document with a statement about gas motors and licensing, that employee forwarded me to her supervisor to get that documentation. Didn't work out the way I wanted (or for that matter, most other people here) so we are where we are today.

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Florida Statutes permits

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