what is an acceptable compression of a stock motor

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Peter16

New Member
Jun 24, 2012
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Australia
I hope this is the correct area.

I have just run in my china girl and thought i would do a compression test.

The reading came back as 130PSI. It sounds about right but i have limited experience with motorcycle engines. I know its an acceptable reading for an outboard.

cheers
 

donphantasmo

Member
Oct 3, 2010
372
11
18
Middleburg, FL
Harbor Freight Cylinder Compression Tool.Try these. They're the same LittleTinMan has, but they're just a lot cheaper. You're not going to use it on a daily bases, so you can go cheap.

You plug it in where the spark plug goes, then you turn the engine with the clutch out. You're probably going to have to pedal it and just pop the clutch or something. Anything over 110-120 is pretty good...
 

Peter16

New Member
Jun 24, 2012
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Australia
its a good idea to disconnect the ignition system or at least hold in the kill switch. with out the plug earthed out it blocks up the flow of electricity and can do damage. Or you will do what i did and reach down to look at the gauge and get a very nasty electric shock!
 

cmanns

New Member
Jul 1, 2012
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Santa Cruz, California
You should maybe make sure it's warmed up a bit and properly lubed I guess. Not 100% sure but if anybody gets low values or feel their low...

Not sure if your manuals say good compression rating but there is cold and hot ratings. It can indicate different thing with cars, not sure with these 2 strokes. In general decent compression is nice though.
 
Sep 4, 2009
980
4
18
62
Texas
my 50 cc HT had 80 psi brand new out of the box
my 66 cc HT had 130 psi out of the box
I'd be interested to know if the psi changes much after the breakin period of a few gallons of fuel. I did notice a huge change in one kit I had in power after breakin. Kinda makes me wonder if maybe some factories test run these and others just throw em together and never even fire em up?
 

Ibedayank

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
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Columbia Tennessee
Graham Motzing said:
Despite the fact that it contains no valves, and could basically be replaced with a flat slab of aluminum, the cylinder head in a two stroke engine has had an incredible amount of research done on it. The head geometry controls of the major factors influencing efficiency (power) of the engine: combustion pressure, and combustion geometry. The burning of fuel and air in the cylinder is basically a very fast chemical reaction. The laws governing speed of a reaction, imply a faster and more thorough burning of the fuel + air in the head, with a) more air velocity and b) more pressure=temperature=decrease in volume.

Quite simply put, the compression ratio creates a higher pressure in the cylinder when the spark plug fires, causing the flame to 'explode' with a lot more force, pushing down on the piston. This creates higher torque because of more force pushing on piston, but also requires more force to push the piston back up and compress the fuel air mix.

We calculate CR by taking the total volume (displacement plus head) and dividing that by the head volume alone. For a 70cc kit with a 7 cc head (stock 50cc) + gaskets ( 1-2 cc) it works out like (70+8)/8= 9.75:1.

PSI can be an indicator of compression ratio, but requires much tricker math to actually figure out CR. Other factors like ring sealing, port dimensions, pipes, intakes, etc, effect the PSI reading.

The 'squish band' affects the 'v' or velocity part of the equation. Air moving quickly has more energy and explodes faster. Imagine having a bowl of vinegar and dumping in baking soda. If you stir the heck out of it, it will fizz up much more violently. That is what is happening as the piston approaches the squish band. The quick decrease in volume will blast all the gasses into the hemispherical chamber around the spark plug at the same time, the violence of moving air speeds the reaction. Jennings and Bell reccomend the 40% of area- 7 deg taper method of sizing a squish band.

Because of the 'faster' flame in a high compression setup, ignition timing will have to be retarded. The ignition triggers and begins igniting the fumes before top dead center, to account for the time it takes to burn the air. When the everything burns faster, the max intensity of the explosion is at the wrong time and pushes the piston down as it comes up (knocking or pinging). This is exacerbated by a pipe, (or supercharger) which increases the pressure in the cylinder.

Sometimes the compression is just too high, the fuel ignightes without any spark, this is also problematic. Going to a higher octane fuel (only necessary in this condiditon) will allow you to continue to run the higher CR and pipe, otherwise you have to drop CR or go to a different pipe.

The 2 stroke gets more complicated also, because there is a huge hole (exhaust port) in the side of the cylinder. So even though on paper the compression ratio for identical 70cc cylinders, with different exhaust timings, will be the same, the holes in the side, and efficiency of exhaust porting will make their actual combustion pressure drastically different.

Finally, what are you looking for with your bike? The mods that mostly effect the final combustion pressure are: More aggressive intake porting= higher compression, more aggressive exhaust porting = lower compression, more radical pipe= higher compression at high rpm's when pipe hits.

If you switch to a higher compression head, and think you are detonating (sounds like rocks rattling in a can... and isn't your crankshaft) try to retard your timing a bit, see if your power improves. Some kits require so many base gaskets to clear a stock head, or small HC, that by the time all that gets put on there they actually have crummy compression, or a lack of bottom end from having all the ports shifted up. When the compression comes back, a bike that was tuned for different setup, can get thrown off. The detonating sound will be nastiest when you are really cramming on the pipe hard. If the timing doesn't fix it, and you're jetted correctly, and running premium gas and synthetic oil, then try putting in more head gaskets to drop compression a bit.

The cylinders that i've already made a lot of heads for (DR hobbit, MK65, and Polini) the compression ratios are just about figured out, but there is a lot of improvement for specific setups. Knowing what to look for makes it a lot easier to fine tune compression with head gaskets, and play with squishin' dynamics.
http://outofcontrolmopeds.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html
 
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Ibedayank

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
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Columbia Tennessee
To figure out effective compression ratio, assuming the gauge is accurate and no leakage (huge assumptions) add 14.7 to the reading to get total pressure, then divide by 14.7 to get your pressure ratio. Raise this result to the power of .71 to get volume ratio, or effective compression ratio.

((155+14.7)/14.7)^0.71 = 5.7:1 give or take. I don't know what a KL is supposed to be, but this measure will almost always be less than the physical compression ratio based on bore stroke and head volume
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
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Dallas
I fixing to take a reading on the Atomic BB. It's a Flying Horse 48cc with about 2000 miles on it. It runs about the same as stock, so I expect some kind of normal reading. I've never had it apart.

I'm waiting for it to cool off a little.
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
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Dallas
I fixing to take a reading on the Atomic BB. It's a Flying Horse 48cc with about 2000 miles on it. It runs about the same as stock, so I expect some kind of normal reading. I've never had it apart.

I'm waiting for it to cool off a little.
With the motor at about 120 degrees I get a reading of 55 psi
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
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Dallas
how did you take that reading
can you explain how you did the test
I was using a harbor freight compression tester. I screwed the tester into the head. The hose was long enough that, I was able to wire tie the guage to the handle bars. The head temperature was about 130 degrees when I started.

I peddled up to speed, keeping the kill switch pushed in the whole time.

I opened the throttle all the way.

I let out the clutch.

I peddled harder.

The highest the pressure got up to was 55 psi.

I got tired and stopped trying to get the pressure higher by peddling harder.
 

Ibedayank

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,171
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Columbia Tennessee
I take it you where having problems with this motor?
On all the motors I have tested under 100psi it was rebuild time.
last motor was a 100cc hodaka dualsport it tested 105 psi and the boss says... rebuild it