Overlapping Bananas?

moronic_kaos · Jun 14, 2010

Decided to try my luck with a different rag-joint sprocket, as I hadn't bored out the middle (this one fits perfectly over my hub) and I figured it'd be easier to center that way. However, when I got the first three bolts on I realized the banana washers on the inside of the wheel slightly overlap. Is that OK?

Pulled the thing off to make sure, and aligned the banana washers together on top of the sprocket. You have to overlap the washers a little and still a few of them are slightly offset (visibility through like 3/4 of the hole). It's strange because I thought there was only 2 different sized rag joints, and this was all sealed together in an unopened package with the sprocket, rag joint, mounting hardware, and banana washers.

BTW: This is the larger size mounting setup. I can tell the difference between the two because my older one was a lot smaller.

Is this just something I should throw away?

rohmell · Jun 14, 2010

My bananas were overlapping, as well. I didn't like it so I took a grinder to the ends. I also had some offset, but I ran a 1/4" drill bit thru the holes to make everything easier to put together. I have about a 1/32" gap between my bananas now when everything is installed and tightened down.

moronic_kaos · Jun 14, 2010

Yea I took a round file to grind out the holes, but tomorrow I gotta get a new disc for my cutoff tool & some new hardware as most of my bolts are stripped.

Sucks it comes like that though. Bet that wasn't in those "instructions" you get with the kits, lol. Someone would've had a pretty bad day.

2door · Jun 14, 2010

There is no need to grind, cut or shorten the flat semi-circular metal parts. And if installed correctly they will not and should not overlap. Don't believe me? Before you mount the sprocket lay these parts on the sprocket and check. You'll find that the holes in the sprocket and the flat parts will line up without overlapping. So where is the problem? The rubber. The parts can be installed so there is no overlap. It takes some work and is probably the hardest part about the whole installation. I use a large pair of snap ring pliers to spread the bolts and flat plates after all of the bolts are installed. Spread them apart and tighten the bolt nearest the ends. Move on to the next junction and so forth until all nine bolts are snug and the plates lay flush. No, it ain't easy but its the correct way. Trimming the plates to fit will cause the bolts to be cocked and can promote a wobble in the sprocket.
Tom

rohmell · Jun 14, 2010

Before I mounted the sprocket, I laid the bananas on the sprocket and the holes in the sprocket and the flat parts did not line up and were overlapping.

2door · Jun 14, 2010

rohmell said:
Before I mounted the sprocket, I laid the bananas on the sprocket and the holes in the sprocket and the flat parts did not line up and were overlapping.

Not disputing your word, I've just never encountered that situation. Were the parts all from the same kit? Is it by any chance an aftermarket sprocket? There is always a chance for poor quality control from the factory but what you describe is rare. How does your sprocket run now? Is it flat and true?
Tom

corgi1 · Jun 14, 2010

? 2 Door,do you know if the sprokets that come with the 2 piece (banana) ring are the same size bolt pattern?

rohmell · Jun 15, 2010

Hi 2door,
All the parts were from the same kit.
The flat curved pieces (bananas) looked like floor sweepings some of them were not complete, it looked like 'bites' were taken out of them along the edges. I should have taken some pictures, but I will do so for my next build. When I laid them over the sprocket and lined them up in a circle with their ends touching, the holes from the bananas did not line up with the holes on the sprocket, the bolt pattern diameters were different, it is as if the holes in the sprocket were drilled too close to the center. If I passed the bolts through the plates and sprocket the difference in bolt pattern diameters would have caused the bolts to be at an angle and not be able to apply pressure to the rubber rag joints.
I had to grind the ends of the bananas so that all nine holes lined up.

It looked kinda like this:
sprocket = black
bananas = green
bolts = red

The sprocket now sits flat and true.

moronic_kaos · Jun 15, 2010

2door said:
There is no need to grind, cut or shorten the flat semi-circular metal parts. And if installed correctly they will not and should not overlap. Don't believe me? Before you mount the sprocket lay these parts on the sprocket and check. You'll find that the holes in the sprocket and the flat parts will line up without overlapping. So where is the problem? The rubber. The parts can be installed so there is no overlap. It takes some work and is probably the hardest part about the whole installation. I use a large pair of snap ring pliers to spread the bolts and flat plates after all of the bolts are installed. Spread them apart and tighten the bolt nearest the ends. Move on to the next junction and so forth until all nine bolts are snug and the plates lay flush. No, it ain't easy but its the correct way. Trimming the plates to fit will cause the bolts to be cocked and can promote a wobble in the sprocket.
Tom

I did that. Plates (I heard them reffered to as "banana washers" once) do not line up with the holes in the sprocket, even when placed on top of each other without rubber rag things.. The rubber pieces line up with the sprocket just fine. And they were sealed in a factory bag from whatever source they came from (got them in a trade for fixing a kid's bike)

I'll get a picture a little later.

EDIT: stuck it on photobucket so you can see it in better detail:

This is how they fit together with no overlap:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm125/moronic_kaos/P6150105.jpg

This is the best they fit together while overlapping:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm125/moronic_kaos/P6150106.jpg

Started filing out the one on the lower-right. It's fixable, yea, but I'd like to know the source of those with this particular defect so we can avoid them in the future. As I understand it, this sprocket came with the engine kit as was not ordered separately. I just don't know from where.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, I guess I could just file the holes down instead of inside to avoid having to shave off the ends of the bananas.

rohmell · Jun 15, 2010

You are lucky, it looks like have only one overlapping plate. On my kit from BGF, all three were too long on the ends and all had to be ground down.

moronic_kaos · Jun 15, 2010

Actually all 3 are overlapping by about 1/8" to 1/4" on each side, it's hard to tell from looking at a picture from a bird's eye view.

Whats funny is my BGF kit fit great. I don't know where this one came from but it's irritating.

2door · Jun 15, 2010

I'm waiting for some more feedback from some of the other experienced builders here. I won't say how many rag joints I've installed but I'll say that its more than a few and not one have displayed the misalignment you guys are saying you had. It sounds as if, either I've been very lucky or you have been unfortunate. In all honesty I've only dealt with kits from three different suppliers and I've yet to run across the flat plates, doublers, that didn't align with the sprocket bolt holes. If you have this condition then I would suggest using the sprocket as a guide and re-drillinmg the doublers to match. If that requires some trimming to avoid overlap, then do it, by all means. The doublers should lay flush against the rubber on the inside of the wheel without overlapping...whatever it takes.
Come on guys. Help me out here. How many of you have had this problem. Venice, Bairdco, Barely Awake, Fairracing, Silver Bear, Thatsdax ??? Speak up here, guys.
Tom

Dave31 · Jun 15, 2010

Sometimes I have luck by swapping the half moons and/or flipping them to get all the bolts holes to line up. If not, then the drill comes out...........

asianflava · Jun 16, 2010

I don't know if this is the correct stack up, but mine is like this:
Sprocket - outer rubber ring - spokes - inner rubber ring - 2pc plates - 3pc plates

When I put the 2pc plates on, they overlapped after staggering the joints with the 3pc plates, it spreads the 2 pc plates to where they lay flat. I had to pry it a little with a screwdriver but it does lay flat.

corgi1 · Jun 16, 2010

Mine sliped into a flat position w/a slight pry on the ends as the bolts tighten down,there is a thread on this a while back

drhofferber · Jun 16, 2010

i have had this problem with a BGF kit...i had xtra parts from other kits and corrected the problem...just like i do with the stock carbs...everything varies alittle in these kits...just make it happen...experiment and things work there way the good way....I HOPE...alot...ha...theres my 2 cents...Dennis..i should add..never a 1/4 in off...

Dave31 · Jun 16, 2010

I'm sorry I never read the whole thread, are we talking about the half moons overlapping, or the bolt holes on the half moons and sprocket overlapping?

corgi1 · Jun 16, 2010

I went back and looked at the pic's of the holes ligning up,I'm sure mine looked similar to the first pic,I did it anyway and pried the ends as bolts tightened and the plate ends slid into place w/a slight pry as the bolts were tightened

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Overlapping Bananas?

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