49cc/52cc Scooter Engine with Electric Start - EPA Certified
More of the "pocketbike" type engines, new, without the bike.
More of the "pocketbike" type engines, new, without the bike.
The Pocket Bike Engine and Your Opinion...
- Thread starter conradcliff
- Start date
Latest Update
I know this thread is as old as the hills, but here's an update:
Pocketbike "Cag" engines share the same clutch and bellhousing bolt pattern as most of the 49cc and below engines available.
Therefore, they will bolt onto all the engine drive kits on the market with 78mm clutch drums. If you remove the 3:1 chainbox, this engine isn't so wide anymore, even with the 5:1 gearbox bolted onto it.
Some pocketbike engines come with 5:1 transmissions. The trannies cost less than $30 and will bolt onto all other engines with 78mm clutch drums. Be advised that drums on this gearboxes might have different depths. The wrong drum will bottom out on the engine and lock it up. Drums with slight interference depth can be shimmed with washers on the engine bolts.
A 5:1 trans allows for excellent gear ratios, especially with 8-speed cassette and a shift kit. This allows for granny gear 1st gear and 14.32:1 overdrive/high speed gears.
I have a few pocketbike engines I've considered using. However, I've favored Tanaka 47R and the GP460 Chun Yang engines in my builds. This 46cc engine looks more like a motorcycle engine than the Tanaka. It has very good gas mileage for 5+hp, and revs past 12,000rpm if allowed to do so. The $65 Happy Time expansion chamber will bolt directly onto the CY engine with excellent power increase.
Maybe one day I'll frame-mount the pocketbike engine, using the Scooterguy mount and SBP shift kit. Then I can compare this Cag with Tanaka 47R and GP460 engines. All three of these aren't as powerful as the Morini, but the Cag and the 460 are relatively cheap and bolt right onto the available engine drive systems, like Staton, BMP, GEBE, Scooterguy, etc.
I know this thread is as old as the hills, but here's an update:
Pocketbike "Cag" engines share the same clutch and bellhousing bolt pattern as most of the 49cc and below engines available.
Therefore, they will bolt onto all the engine drive kits on the market with 78mm clutch drums. If you remove the 3:1 chainbox, this engine isn't so wide anymore, even with the 5:1 gearbox bolted onto it.
Some pocketbike engines come with 5:1 transmissions. The trannies cost less than $30 and will bolt onto all other engines with 78mm clutch drums. Be advised that drums on this gearboxes might have different depths. The wrong drum will bottom out on the engine and lock it up. Drums with slight interference depth can be shimmed with washers on the engine bolts.
A 5:1 trans allows for excellent gear ratios, especially with 8-speed cassette and a shift kit. This allows for granny gear 1st gear and 14.32:1 overdrive/high speed gears.
I have a few pocketbike engines I've considered using. However, I've favored Tanaka 47R and the GP460 Chun Yang engines in my builds. This 46cc engine looks more like a motorcycle engine than the Tanaka. It has very good gas mileage for 5+hp, and revs past 12,000rpm if allowed to do so. The $65 Happy Time expansion chamber will bolt directly onto the CY engine with excellent power increase.
Maybe one day I'll frame-mount the pocketbike engine, using the Scooterguy mount and SBP shift kit. Then I can compare this Cag with Tanaka 47R and GP460 engines. All three of these aren't as powerful as the Morini, but the Cag and the 460 are relatively cheap and bolt right onto the available engine drive systems, like Staton, BMP, GEBE, Scooterguy, etc.
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well this thread my be as old as the hills but i just read it and found it interesting i gues the real problem is the large size of thes motors mounting and gearing also creates a problem but there are some cheap motors out there
Contrary to popular opinion, these Cag pocketbike engines aren't that wide. You have to remove the chain-driven 3:1 transmission , then it'll bolt onto any engine drive system. I had one mounted on my Staton front friction drive and my BMP rear friction drive. They didn't stick out like a Honda GX50 would.
Lemme go look for my pocketbike engine. I'll measure it and compare it with my GP460 engine and Mitsubishi TLE43cc engine.
Lemme go look for my pocketbike engine. I'll measure it and compare it with my GP460 engine and Mitsubishi TLE43cc engine.
Interesting thread. I'll be watching for the actual dimensions of the engine. Mostly length and width.
SB
SB
wonder if the starting wires act as a generator when the motor is running?
According to info available, the Honda GX50 is 10.8" long, 7.7" wide(pullstarter to bellhousing) and 13.9" tall. It weighs 12.1 lbs.
My Mitsubishi TLE43cc engine is 9.625" long, 6.75" wide and 10.25" tall. According to my bathroom scale, it weighs 9.4 lbs.
My GP460 engine is 7.25" long from carb to exhaust port, 7.25" wide and 8.25" tall. It weighs less than 7 lbs(estimated).
My pocketbike engine is 9" long, 6.75" WIDE and 4.75" TALL!!! It weighs 7.8 lbs.
The 460 and pocketbike engines are even smaller in mass/dimensions than Honda/Mits engines. This is because H/M engines are boxy; pocketbike/460 engines lack massive plastic carb and exhaust covers.
Pocketbike engine is VERY short. You could stack TWO Cag engines in the space of a Mits engine, and almost THREE pocketbike engines in the space of a Honda GX50 engine!!!
So the misconception of wide pocketbike engines are grossly untrue!
The 3:1 pocketbike transmission which widens the engine is not needed, when used in conventional engine drives. If frame-mounting the pocketbike engine with this 3:1 gearbox, a 9:1 jackshaft will be needed to transport power to the cassette/shift kit.
The 5:1 pocketbike gearbox can be utilized, placing the engine sprocket in correct position, without using jackshafts. A 28.6:1 gear ratio is easily attained by using 11-tooth gearbox sprocket and 63t drivering sprocket.
JMO, mounting a pocketbike engine with a Scooterguy mount and a mix of pocketbike sprockets and SBP components would be a compact and powerful combination.
I might do that.
My Mitsubishi TLE43cc engine is 9.625" long, 6.75" wide and 10.25" tall. According to my bathroom scale, it weighs 9.4 lbs.
My GP460 engine is 7.25" long from carb to exhaust port, 7.25" wide and 8.25" tall. It weighs less than 7 lbs(estimated).
My pocketbike engine is 9" long, 6.75" WIDE and 4.75" TALL!!! It weighs 7.8 lbs.
The 460 and pocketbike engines are even smaller in mass/dimensions than Honda/Mits engines. This is because H/M engines are boxy; pocketbike/460 engines lack massive plastic carb and exhaust covers.
Pocketbike engine is VERY short. You could stack TWO Cag engines in the space of a Mits engine, and almost THREE pocketbike engines in the space of a Honda GX50 engine!!!
So the misconception of wide pocketbike engines are grossly untrue!
The 3:1 pocketbike transmission which widens the engine is not needed, when used in conventional engine drives. If frame-mounting the pocketbike engine with this 3:1 gearbox, a 9:1 jackshaft will be needed to transport power to the cassette/shift kit.
The 5:1 pocketbike gearbox can be utilized, placing the engine sprocket in correct position, without using jackshafts. A 28.6:1 gear ratio is easily attained by using 11-tooth gearbox sprocket and 63t drivering sprocket.
JMO, mounting a pocketbike engine with a Scooterguy mount and a mix of pocketbike sprockets and SBP components would be a compact and powerful combination.
I might do that.
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Easiest mounting suggestions:
Any Staton drive system...direct bolt-on.....
BMP friction drive.....direct bolt-on.....
Dimension Edge friction drive.....direct bolt-on.....
Scooterguy chain drive/shift kit frame-mount.....bolt on the 5:1 tranny, then direct bolt-on.....
Very cool 5-7Heaven, thank you. I too thought they were wider. Got my next project in mind now.According to info available, the Honda GX50 is 10.8" long, 7.7" wide(pullstarter to bellhousing) and 13.9" tall. It weighs 12.1 lbs.
My Mitsubishi TLE43cc engine is 9.625" long, 6.75" wide and 10.25" tall. According to my bathroom scale, it weighs 9.4 lbs.
My GP460 engine is 7.25" long from carb to exhaust port, 7.25" wide and 8.25" tall. It weighs less than 7 lbs(estimated).
My pocketbike engine is 9" long, 6.75" WIDE and 4.75" TALL!!! It weighs 7.8 lbs.
The 460 and pocketbike engines are even smaller in mass/dimensions than Honda/Mits engines. This is because H/M engines are boxy; pocketbike/460 engines lack massive plastic carb and exhaust covers.
Pocketbike engine is VERY short. You could stack TWO Cag engines in the space of a Mits engine, and almost THREE pocketbike engines in the space of a Honda GX50 engine!!!
So the misconception of wide pocketbike engines are grossly untrue!
The 3:1 pocketbike transmission which widens the engine is not needed, when used in conventional engine drives. If frame-mounting the pocketbike engine with this 3:1 gearbox, a 9:1 jackshaft will be needed to transport power to the cassette/shift kit.
The 5:1 pocketbike gearbox can be utilized, placing the engine sprocket in correct position, without using jackshafts. A 28.6:1 gear ratio is easily attained by using 11-tooth gearbox sprocket and 63t drivering sprocket.
JMO, mounting a pocketbike engine with a Scooterguy mount and a mix of pocketbike sprockets and SBP components would be a compact and powerful combination.
I might do that.
hi !
my 26" mountainbike with home made rear rack & rear rack mounted 47cc cag engine is atm waiting for exhaust to arrive from UK. i have some messages regarding it on other topic: "front mounted minimoto engine" that is relatively silent but with man named Jose with lill simular set-up on rear rack with Youtube video on the topic..
This bicycle of mine has all the original gears in function and usable by human power pedalling..
btw, does any1 happen to have 4sale the plastic part and pressure spring that sits in middle and inside the PullStart Cog/pawl ? These mentioned 2 parts seems to be uber difficult to find, Ebay's are useless etc.
only upgrades to engine parts so far are Dellorto PHBG19ds copy carb + manifold and exhaust will be this kinda http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/bikes/mini moto/IMG_3508.JPG
Also i will try a longer sparg plug to gain some compression and smaller head volume.
Later i shall "dremel" do some transfer/canal to the std 47cc cylinder, like 49cc ones have...
Does some1 happen to know if the 1st curve pipeing goes further inside the Chamber ? ive heard that some do...Mine is exactly same exhaust model as in the piccy exept that the visible straight pipe b4 chamber on mine is like 5cm shorter or summink.
Mostly im doing this bike project from Scrap yard/Recycling center parts.
for example Throttle grip i will try and make from a bicycles gear change grip, this kinda idea of part to use: http://www.shreekumar.in/pics/viper/frontgripshift.jpg
bye
m
my 26" mountainbike with home made rear rack & rear rack mounted 47cc cag engine is atm waiting for exhaust to arrive from UK. i have some messages regarding it on other topic: "front mounted minimoto engine" that is relatively silent but with man named Jose with lill simular set-up on rear rack with Youtube video on the topic..
This bicycle of mine has all the original gears in function and usable by human power pedalling..
btw, does any1 happen to have 4sale the plastic part and pressure spring that sits in middle and inside the PullStart Cog/pawl ? These mentioned 2 parts seems to be uber difficult to find, Ebay's are useless etc.
only upgrades to engine parts so far are Dellorto PHBG19ds copy carb + manifold and exhaust will be this kinda http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/bikes/mini moto/IMG_3508.JPG
Also i will try a longer sparg plug to gain some compression and smaller head volume.
Later i shall "dremel" do some transfer/canal to the std 47cc cylinder, like 49cc ones have...
Does some1 happen to know if the 1st curve pipeing goes further inside the Chamber ? ive heard that some do...Mine is exactly same exhaust model as in the piccy exept that the visible straight pipe b4 chamber on mine is like 5cm shorter or summink.
Mostly im doing this bike project from Scrap yard/Recycling center parts.
for example Throttle grip i will try and make from a bicycles gear change grip, this kinda idea of part to use: http://www.shreekumar.in/pics/viper/frontgripshift.jpg
bye
m
Good engine, yes?hi !
my 26" mountainbike with home made rear rack & rear rack mounted 47cc cag engine is atm waiting for exhaust to arrive from UK. i have some messages regarding it on other topic: "front mounted minimoto engine" that is relatively silent but with man named Jose with lill simular set-up on rear rack with Youtube video on the topic..
This bicycle of mine has all the original gears in function and usable by human power pedalling..
btw, does any1 happen to have 4sale the plastic part and pressure spring that sits in middle and inside the PullStart Cog/pawl ? These mentioned 2 parts seems to be uber difficult to find, Ebay's are useless etc.
only upgrades to engine parts so far are Dellorto PHBG19ds copy carb + manifold and exhaust will be this kinda http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/bikes/mini moto/IMG_3508.JPG
Also i will try a longer sparg plug to gain some compression and smaller head volume.
Later i shall "dremel" do some transfer/canal to the std 47cc cylinder, like 49cc ones have...
Does some1 happen to know if the 1st curve pipeing goes further inside the Chamber ? ive heard that some do...Mine is exactly same exhaust model as in the piccy exept that the visible straight pipe b4 chamber on mine is like 5cm shorter or summink.
Mostly im doing this bike project from Scrap yard/Recycling center parts.
for example Throttle grip i will try and make from a bicycles gear change grip, this kinda idea of part to use: http://www.shreekumar.in/pics/viper/frontgripshift.jpg
bye
m
I put front and rear brake cable on the right-side brake lever.
Then I used the left-side brake lever for a throttle grip. The cable fit right into place.
Do you have a pic of these parts? Does the pullstarter have the white plastic bow-tie config? I may have what your looking for.hi !
btw, does any1 happen to have 4sale the plastic part and pressure spring that sits in middle and inside the PullStart Cog/pawl ? These mentioned 2 parts seems to be uber difficult to find, Ebay's are useless etc.
bye
m
Re: Gripshift as throttle input. It can work easily enough. Carefully remove the rubber stationary grip (air compressor or rubbing alcohol and twist off). Loosen the gripshift retaining screw (small allen bolt under the grip).
Slide the gripshift off the bike. On the outer end of the shifter will be a plastic ring cap held on by 2 or 4 plastic tabs. Carefully lever them loose with a flat screwdriver, so the two shifter halves come apart (stationary part and rotating part covered in rubber grip).
A small S shaped metal spring will fall out. Retain this if you wish to use it as a gripshifter ever again, or have notched throttle control (use the 8 speed side, not 3).
Lubricate and re assemlbe the shifter without the s-shaped spring. You will need a heavy return spring at the other end of the throttle cable. It has to keep constant tension on the shifter cable or the cable end will pop out of the shfiter housing, possibly causing a loss of throttle control. Good luck.
Slide the gripshift off the bike. On the outer end of the shifter will be a plastic ring cap held on by 2 or 4 plastic tabs. Carefully lever them loose with a flat screwdriver, so the two shifter halves come apart (stationary part and rotating part covered in rubber grip).
A small S shaped metal spring will fall out. Retain this if you wish to use it as a gripshifter ever again, or have notched throttle control (use the 8 speed side, not 3).
Lubricate and re assemlbe the shifter without the s-shaped spring. You will need a heavy return spring at the other end of the throttle cable. It has to keep constant tension on the shifter cable or the cable end will pop out of the shfiter housing, possibly causing a loss of throttle control. Good luck.
edit: just saw the last post by lowracer (sllow computer)
Has anyone used a cheap pocketbike/cag engine on a friction drive? I think it has been done. Yes, there are some really racy motors and parts, but I think the average 50cc stock engine is about $150 and common.
I think it would work great on a dax but like someone said, might have the powerband at a high RPM.
I had a pocketbike for a little bit (someone stole mine). I got it for fixing another one my friend bougth at a yardsale as a pair. The electric starter was cheap crap and was broken. The brakes worked but were mushy. The engine had a very obvious RPM range it liked (near to and upper RPM limit, no guts till then).
I was going to put stingray style bars on it and make it look like a moped so I could ride it around the rural roads. That is how I ended up on this site, looking for info.
xPostech, you might be able to find a hub-driven electric bike kit (wheel plus controller and battery etc), and put it on a gas bike (front wheel electric, rear wheel china kit or rack drive). Then you'd surely have some way to get far and speed up quick. Your bike would be heavy though!
Has anyone used a cheap pocketbike/cag engine on a friction drive? I think it has been done. Yes, there are some really racy motors and parts, but I think the average 50cc stock engine is about $150 and common.
I think it would work great on a dax but like someone said, might have the powerband at a high RPM.
I had a pocketbike for a little bit (someone stole mine). I got it for fixing another one my friend bougth at a yardsale as a pair. The electric starter was cheap crap and was broken. The brakes worked but were mushy. The engine had a very obvious RPM range it liked (near to and upper RPM limit, no guts till then).
I was going to put stingray style bars on it and make it look like a moped so I could ride it around the rural roads. That is how I ended up on this site, looking for info.
xPostech, you might be able to find a hub-driven electric bike kit (wheel plus controller and battery etc), and put it on a gas bike (front wheel electric, rear wheel china kit or rack drive). Then you'd surely have some way to get far and speed up quick. Your bike would be heavy though!
Do y'all use those gizmos that generate while braking? I guess with one of those you could go forever if it was downhill all the way.
Seriously though,
Is ICE a gas engine/alternator to battery to motor drive? Do you use a fairing on your bike? The other aero stuff?
Has anyone down there tried making their own wheel motors/alternators using (if you can get enough) rare earth magnets scavenged from dead computer hard disks?
Dang I'm out of coffee.
Ted
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Happycheapskate,
I almost put one of my 2 Cags onto my BMP rear friction drive bike just to see what it would be like. I will do it sooner or later for test purposes.
I got a Subaru Robin 35cc on the BMP kit now & its nice, but the lighter more powerful cag should really wake things up. I like the DAX drive unit especially since BMP is RIP.
Running the Cag w/v-belt drive like I got it now gets me over 50 mph but when I dont ride like a lunatic, I can get 150 mpg's (tested this a few weeks ago). I am really happy with the Stage 2 Cags. Its a great powerplant for a bicycle application for those with the need for speed & fuel economy on a budget. I paid $129 w/free shipping on eBay from Zero-Pulse USA. I am using a single gear drive ratio of 15.6:1...It has plenty of pull from a dead stop & builds speed very quickly. Once it gets 'on the pipe' which is about @ 30 mph (the same point my Subaru Robin Eh035 runs out of steam), it pulls even harder to redline @ over 50 mph. I added a $15 fuel tank, $40 expansion chamber pipe, $25 flex pipe, $5 car spark plug wire, $3 new NGK plug, $2 Copper base head gasket, Premium ethanol free gas, & Yamalube 2R @ 32:1
I really like the fact that you can mount it using either the std clutch side 4 bolt holes (bolts right up to the 76-78mm BMP, Dax or Staton friction kits) or use the bottom bolt holes & mount it onto a flat surface (I mounted both this way onto 1/4" angle aluminum & 1/4" flat stock on one bike & slightly thinner steel stock on the other bike).
-Lowracer-
I almost put one of my 2 Cags onto my BMP rear friction drive bike just to see what it would be like. I will do it sooner or later for test purposes.
I got a Subaru Robin 35cc on the BMP kit now & its nice, but the lighter more powerful cag should really wake things up. I like the DAX drive unit especially since BMP is RIP.
Running the Cag w/v-belt drive like I got it now gets me over 50 mph but when I dont ride like a lunatic, I can get 150 mpg's (tested this a few weeks ago). I am really happy with the Stage 2 Cags. Its a great powerplant for a bicycle application for those with the need for speed & fuel economy on a budget. I paid $129 w/free shipping on eBay from Zero-Pulse USA. I am using a single gear drive ratio of 15.6:1...It has plenty of pull from a dead stop & builds speed very quickly. Once it gets 'on the pipe' which is about @ 30 mph (the same point my Subaru Robin Eh035 runs out of steam), it pulls even harder to redline @ over 50 mph. I added a $15 fuel tank, $40 expansion chamber pipe, $25 flex pipe, $5 car spark plug wire, $3 new NGK plug, $2 Copper base head gasket, Premium ethanol free gas, & Yamalube 2R @ 32:1
I really like the fact that you can mount it using either the std clutch side 4 bolt holes (bolts right up to the 76-78mm BMP, Dax or Staton friction kits) or use the bottom bolt holes & mount it onto a flat surface (I mounted both this way onto 1/4" angle aluminum & 1/4" flat stock on one bike & slightly thinner steel stock on the other bike).
-Lowracer-
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Great. I liked the sound of the pocketbike that I fixed. It looked a little "cheesy" but started ok and seemed to have enough guts for a bicycle motor, esp something I am putting on a 700c "cyclocross" bike. 40 is plenty fast!
I want to keep the total price (dax box and motor and tank) to $300, $400 tops!!! I like the happytime ok, but it doesn't work that great as a regular bicycle. I think with a dax and small engine, I will be able to use the regular gears for some scenic paths and no-engine paths, without too much extra work.
I want to keep the total price (dax box and motor and tank) to $300, $400 tops!!! I like the happytime ok, but it doesn't work that great as a regular bicycle. I think with a dax and small engine, I will be able to use the regular gears for some scenic paths and no-engine paths, without too much extra work.
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