Bike Berry Flying Horse First Timer build

Risingsunn · Dec 4, 2012

I am definitely getting my moneys worth out of this investment. I have to say that I am enjoying working on it as much, if not more, than riding. Though I really need to pay attention to tightening things after every ride more. So far I have lost a gear cover screw, an air filter cover screw and vibrated in carb off twice.
Now that I am a bit more familiar with the setup I am going dismount the engine and perhaps do a more extensive breakdown of the engine and check the seals and other areas that Biknut suggested.
The cork/rubber gasket is falling apart around the intake manifold, and I am not certain how well it's holding up on the jug. So I am going to get some paper gasket material and redo them both.
The engine still seems a bit louder than what it should be. I noticed when I was assembling the exhaust the first time that where the pipe connects to the exhaust wasn't flat so I am going to see if I can do something to smooth it out.
Currently I have a small piece of rubber house between the back frame and the engine block. I am thinking about getting rid of it to help the vibrations and to help with chain tension, the problem is that my air filter barely fits now, if I remove the padding I may not be able to get my air filter on at all. Any ideas on that?
I have to say that I am very glad that I found this forum BEFORE I found the retail sites. Had I not known what I was getting into when I bought a China girl, I would be very upset at the quality of the product that is being sold. I understand that they don't make the equipment they just sell it, but they should give a disclaimer that additional parts and lots of TLC would be needed to get the engine to a decent level of quality. Though that is the very thing that interested me in the hobby.

And also on a personal note. We found a mobile mechanic who came over and checked out our van. It seems the timing chain is shot, but that it is repairable. He is willing to do the work for a couple of hundred dollars so I am incredibly happy about that.

biknut · Dec 5, 2012

Risingsunn said:
I am definitely getting my moneys worth out of this investment. I have to say that I am enjoying working on it as much, if not more, than riding. Though I really need to pay attention to tightening things after every ride more. So far I have lost a gear cover screw, an air filter cover screw and vibrated in carb off twice.
Now that I am a bit more familiar with the setup I am going dismount the engine and perhaps do a more extensive breakdown of the engine and check the seals and other areas that Biknut suggested.
The cork/rubber gasket is falling apart around the intake manifold, and I am not certain how well it's holding up on the jug. So I am going to get some paper gasket material and redo them both.
The engine still seems a bit louder than what it should be. I noticed when I was assembling the exhaust the first time that where the pipe connects to the exhaust wasn't flat so I am going to see if I can do something to smooth it out.
Currently I have a small piece of rubber house between the back frame and the engine block. I am thinking about getting rid of it to help the vibrations and to help with chain tension, the problem is that my air filter barely fits now, if I remove the padding I may not be able to get my air filter on at all. Any ideas on that?
I have to say that I am very glad that I found this forum BEFORE I found the retail sites. Had I not known what I was getting into when I bought a China girl, I would be very upset at the quality of the product that is being sold. I understand that they don't make the equipment they just sell it, but they should give a disclaimer that additional parts and lots of TLC would be needed to get the engine to a decent level of quality. Though that is the very thing that interested me in the hobby.

And also on a personal note. We found a mobile mechanic who came over and checked out our van. It seems the timing chain is shot, but that it is repairable. He is willing to do the work for a couple of hundred dollars so I am incredibly happy about that.

This is how I make the intake and exhaust flanges flat. I do this to all my new motors. I usually wait till the motor installed before starting
I stuff cotton into the port to keep metal dust out of the engine.

I remove the studs from the head, on both the intake, and exhaust flanges .

I have a piece of aluminum plate that's 2" x 3 1/2" x 1/4" . I wrap a piece of fine grit sandpaper around it, and use it to sand the flanges flat. It's very easy to do, and takes less than 5 minutes each flange. It's east to tell by looking, when you've got the flange flat.

You can also do this the intake manifold flange, and the muffler flange.

crassius · Dec 5, 2012

a piece of PVC pipe or a piece of an old hard leather belt will make the best shim for the engine mounts

Risingsunn · Dec 6, 2012

So I don't have to worry about the exhaust flange for now. Somehow the baffles broke lose in the muffler and are rattling around inside now. So I emailed BikeBerry and they want me to send it back to them for inspection, repair, replacement, etc. Kinda bummed, I have a 5 day weekend this week and was hoping to get some good riding done. Hopefully they will replace the exhaust gasket too, it got kinda mangled taking it off the engine.

maniac57 · Dec 6, 2012

Risingsunn said:
I am definitely getting my moneys worth out of this investment. I have to say that I am enjoying working on it as much, if not more, than riding. Though I really need to pay attention to tightening things after every ride more. So far I have lost a gear cover screw, an air filter cover screw and vibrated in carb off twice.
Now that I am a bit more familiar with the setup I am going dismount the engine and perhaps do a more extensive breakdown of the engine and check the seals and other areas that Biknut suggested.
The cork/rubber gasket is falling apart around the intake manifold, and I am not certain how well it's holding up on the jug. So I am going to get some paper gasket material and redo them both.
The engine still seems a bit louder than what it should be. I noticed when I was assembling the exhaust the first time that where the pipe connects to the exhaust wasn't flat so I am going to see if I can do something to smooth it out.
Currently I have a small piece of rubber house between the back frame and the engine block. I am thinking about getting rid of it to help the vibrations and to help with chain tension, the problem is that my air filter barely fits now, if I remove the padding I may not be able to get my air filter on at all. Any ideas on that?
I have to say that I am very glad that I found this forum BEFORE I found the retail sites. Had I not known what I was getting into when I bought a China girl, I would be very upset at the quality of the product that is being sold. I understand that they don't make the equipment they just sell it, but they should give a disclaimer that additional parts and lots of TLC would be needed to get the engine to a decent level of quality. Though that is the very thing that interested me in the hobby.

And also on a personal note. We found a mobile mechanic who came over and checked out our van. It seems the timing chain is shot, but that it is repairable. He is willing to do the work for a couple of hundred dollars so I am incredibly happy about that.

It is NEVER a good idea to place rubber under the engine mounts. Get rid if it asap. More movement=more breakage.

Risingsunn · Dec 17, 2012

Good afternoon all,
Sorry about the lack of posts for a while, been busy around here. The bike is running quite well. I still haven't returned the muffler for RMA yet but have ridden it a bit.
And YES, I have gotten rid of the rubber under the engine mounts. And YES it does run smoother with less vibration.
Last week I decided to take the bike to work to show my coworkers but never made it all the way in. Though I had replaced the cheap mounting studs with some grade 8.8 bolts from Lowe's hardware, but still I managed to snap one off on the ride. Luckily I was close enough to pedal the rest of the way in and got a ride home. With my Dremel tool I cut a notch in the broken bolt and it came right out. Lowe's didn't have anything stronger but they recommended McFaden Dale Hardware and I found some grade 12.2 Hex head bolts. I now carry a spare set just in case, along with all the tools I need when I go riding longer than a mile.
I would say I have a good 60-70 miles on her now and she is getting smoother and smoother. Noting else has vibrated out or broken off. The longest ride I have gone on so far was about 20 miles. Though I ended up pedaling 5 of it or so due to the fact I forgot to gas up before I left and ran out of gas! It was still a fun ride though. (See pict Red Rock Las Vegas NV).
My next trip is going to be around 30 miles or so I think, near the same area. I have gotten her up to 30 MPH on some stretches and love it.
I am picking up a new spark plug today so that will help. I was thinking about possibly porting things out just a bit for a little better performance. Also I was thinking about a 36 tooth sprocket to. Not looking for racing speed but so I run the engine at a little less RPMs and a little quieter. I was thinking also once I get my muffler replaced of putting a silencer on it to help with the noise. Also it seems to be running a bit rich though I have the clip on the leanest setting. I am thinking that a better air filter should help things with that.
Where can I find other jets for the stock NT carb or a better, cheap airfilter say on ebay?
Any other ideas of what I could do to make things smoother?
Is my silencer idea feasible?
Has it been discussed in the forum how to replace the spark plug wire from the CDI?
I was thinking about the BikeBerry Speed Demon muffler eventually, but haven't seen anything decisive whether it actually helps or not, any opinions on that?
And I just want to say thank you again to all the great people here that have gotten me hooked on this hobby.

Risingsunn · Dec 20, 2012

I replaced the plug with a NGK B6HS, the local motorcycle shop didn't have a 7HS and bummed a used spark plug wire off a local auto shop. Took out for a bit of spin but didn't notice a performance gain. Low end was kind of lagging but high end worked pretty well. Can't make any assessments yet since I only took it out on one ride. Though now that I read up on copper core vs resistance wire, I am not sure that I will stick with the wire I have. Perhaps time to go back to motorcycle shop for a new wire.
The weather here in Vegas has finally dropped and it's a bit too cold (for me) to do any good riding, though I have been doing quite a bit of reading. I was thinking about upgrading for some performance but it just seems that so much with these little things are hit and miss. IE, the simple carb mod. Drill a little hole and things idle and run better, right? Well....maybe. Or it could screw things up all together. Same with rejetting your carb, maybe or maybe not. I envy the people on here with entire workshops of tools and time on your hands. But hey, I will do the little things I can to make things run at least what stock SHOULD be. Now I just have to get over the Christmas hump and have a few bucks for the 36t sprocket and a gear puller to be able to dig a little deeper and learn some more.
So here is my current shopping list:
Expansion chamber/silencer: $50 BikeBerry/?
36t rear sprocket: $15 ThatsDax/$23 Bikeberry
Sparkplug wire: $7 SBP/?
Nicer throttle handle: $8 ThatsDax
Better fuel line/filter: $5 ebay / $6 ThatsDax

Risingsunn · Dec 20, 2012

So the automotive spark plug wire I got was resistive and I noticed that the engine was four stroking more than it was when I was running the stock wire and plug. I thought it was because the engine was cold so I warmed it up a bit. Nope! The engine still ran fairly bad. I had already replaced the plug with a better unit so I didn't thinki it could be that. So just for sh*ts and giggles I went over to the Home Depot across the street and got some AWG 6 house wire. That is some heavy duty stuff there, let me tell you.. Managed to thread it into the CDI and the old stock boot. The top cap on the spark plug unscrewed nicely and I attached the wire to the bike. Low and behold, things are running very nicely now, no more four stroking, and it runs well. Now me not being an electrician or mechanic, I just wonder, is there a down side to running such heavy gauge wire on this? I am just curious. Thanks!

crassius · Dec 20, 2012

should be OK if the engine vibration doesn't cause it to crack something - maybe put a plastic hanger in the middle if it seems too long/heavy

maniac57 · Dec 22, 2012

Risingsunn said:
So the automotive spark plug wire I got was resistive and I noticed that the engine was four stroking more than it was when I was running the stock wire and plug. I thought it was because the engine was cold so I warmed it up a bit. Nope! The engine still ran fairly bad. I had already replaced the plug with a better unit so I didn't thinki it could be that. So just for sh*ts and giggles I went over to the Home Depot across the street and got some AWG 6 house wire. That is some heavy duty stuff there, let me tell you.. Managed to thread it into the CDI and the old stock boot. The top cap on the spark plug unscrewed nicely and I attached the wire to the bike. Low and behold, things are running very nicely now, no more four stroking, and it runs well. Now me not being an electrician or mechanic, I just wonder, is there a down side to running such heavy gauge wire on this? I am just curious. Thanks!

Just don't bend it too much because it will work harden and break. I get my wires from the junkyard free, along with all the plugs I could ever want! If you are still running the stock chain, I'd carry a spare until you get it upgraded. The chain is the part that has broken on every single kit I've used it on. (I don't even bother trying anymore. )

Risingsunn · Dec 23, 2012

The wire is no thicker than standard spark plug wire, however there is a hellofa lot more copper inside and it is rather stiff with no shielding. There is really no need to brace it as it holds its shape nicely.
I finally sent my muffler in for RMA from Bikeberry. I know it's going to be a couple of weeks before I get it back, so I am doing some research on what I want to upgrade. First I wanted a Speed-Demon pipe/silencer from BikeBerry now I am leaning toward an Arrow Torquer II. Then I was looking at an NT Speed Carb Gen 2 from Speeddemon.ca now I am considering a DAX RT. I am definitely getting a 36 tooth sprocket though, even if I don't get anything else.
It's rather interesting reading about the wide variety of experiences people have with every type of upgrade, some have excellent results, others not so much. From carb to pipes, and even simple mods, there never seems to be a solid consensus of whether an upgrade is a good one.
So I think for now, I will just wait for my muffler, enjoy breaking in my engine, and see if I really want anything more than what I have now.
If and when I do decided to upgrade, which should I do first, pipes or carb?

Hey BikNut, at what point (if any) did you upgrade the stock chain on your Flying Horse? Anyone have a good chain recommendation?

Scott.D.Lang · Jan 2, 2013

First off I want to say I like reading about this build as I will be starting one myself in about 2 months. Ive gotten a lot of very good info that I will be using myself from your post.
The reason I post now though is the wire you are using yes it will work wonderfully but don't trust it. I have done the exact same thing on a turbo charged Toyota just to make a couple runs down the track. The mistake I made was not changing it back to a good wire a few nights later on my way home from work the car started missing when I poped the hood it looked like a chrismass tree because the heat had made the wire crack in several places.
So that said if any heat at all can get to the wire change it soon or it will fail at the worse time you can think of.

Risingsunn · Jan 2, 2013

Good morning Scott. Thank you for reading my post. You may also want to look
Into Biknut's post on his Flying Horse build. He is a wealth of information on these particular engines.

I know using the that particular wire may not have been the best choice for this application but would it fail on a motorbike? I wouldn't think that they would carry as much current as a car but I am not sure. I didn't know that thick copper wire could get so fragile. Thanks for the heads up though.

Risingsunn · Jan 5, 2013

Today has been a good day. Yesterday I got my 36t sprocket, handgrips, fuel line and filter and new clutch cable from DAX and my speed carb from BGF. And today I got my replacement muffler. I am so psyched!
Got everything but my homemade clutch cable pulley installed. Wow my original pipe must have been trashed from the start, because this new one really much quieter. The original was the newer type with the end cap recessed into the pipe, the replacement is the standard muffler and looks and sounds MUCH better, I can actually hear the intake noise over the exhaust now, very nice.
I've only gone around the block once this evening and everything seems to run nice. So far no four stroking but I think the engine is running a bit warm. I can feel the heat radiating about a foot above the engine. I have the needle on the default position, one notch down from the leanest.
Also the Speed Carb seems to have a bit smaller air filter than the stock NT, it doesn't sit right against the frame.
I have about a gallon more of break in and I think the only major changes I am going to make now are a new chain and tuned jets, when the time comes. Perhaps a better pipe down the road. For now I am going to be content with what I have.
dance1

Risingsunn · Jan 6, 2013

Took the bike out for about a 7 mile ride today. Ran into an interesting issue. When run at higher RPMs generally downhill after about 20-30 seconds the engine starts stuttering. At first I would slow down and it would mellow out. The second or third time I moved the clip on the needle down to the middle position to make it run richer. That made it worse. So I moved the clip up to second to leanest and that helped a bit.
The last time I didn't let off on the gas and the engine finally died, it wouldn't turn over right away while coasting but after letting it sit for a couple of minutes it fired back up and ran fine. I tried a couple more times to duplicate the issue but couldn't after that. \

Any ideas?

I might swap back to the NT carb and see if I have the same issue. It does seem too that it's still running hot. Though I am enjoying the additional speed at lower RPMs from the 36t sprocket.

crassius · Jan 6, 2013

sounds like the angle that your carb sits at is draining your bowl (or not filling it), but it may also be the angle of your tank - look at both with the rear tire on a block at about a downhill angle

vachon644 · Jan 8, 2013

I would doublecheck fuel flow. It could be the gas cap not venting creating a vacuum in the tank preventing the fuel from flowing or a clogged fuel filter (there may be one in the tank at the tip of the petcock). I think you engine seized from what I can understand. Next time you remove your exhaust take a good look at the piston exhaust side and sometimes on the intake cylinder wall; I bet you'll find scorches of lean seizing.

Risingsunn · Jan 8, 2013

Thank you for the ideas. I will check into both areas. I don't think it's the gas cap as I drilled it for ventilation shortly after I got it because of that very issue. I hope my engine isn't seizing, I haven't even finished breaking it in yet!
I took it out for another ride last night. Pushed it up to 35 on the downhill and it died, but only because the carb vibrated off.

Then it was back to a comfortable 25 at about half throttle.
When I got back I did notice that the chain bounced quite a bit so I took off and remounted my rag joint, which cleared that up.
Above three quarters throttle though there is really no speed gain, it just tops off. I am still wondering what jet set, (50-60 or 60-70) to get from Pirate when order, I am getting a new chain from them too and want to get my order in soon. Any ideas anyone?

crassius · Jan 8, 2013

main jets have been a real PITA for me this year - kits are coming with no numbers on the jets and jets are getting larger & larger - motors are all 4-stroking all thru the throttle range with needle set at leanest setting

can't afford to order a bunch of jets for testing, but lately all are a bit of a loose fit on a .026'' drill bit - soldered one & drilled to .025". but waiting now for health to improve a bit to test that

Risingsunn · Jan 8, 2013

On Pirates site, he sells
"these jets in packs of 5 and in the range of the numbers shown odd or even.. If you order a 50's jet pack you will either get all the odd or all the even numbers in that jet range. 1 jet hardly makes a difference so we split em up into 2's to widen your variety of jets. For instance in a 50's range you will recieve #50,52,54,56,58 and/or 51,53,55,57,59,."
From what have read here, the Speed carbs take 5mm jets and that the stock jet is about 70. So I am going off of that. I don't want to order a set then not have them be right for my engine/altitude and have to get another set. I'd prefer NOT to have to solder and drill if I have a choice.

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