China Girl will not run unless choke on

GoldenMotor.com

Buzzing Bicycles

New Member
Jan 31, 2014
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Ireland
Hi Guys,

Ok basically I have a new China Girl installed on a standard mens bike.

Engine will start and idle with choke fully on. However, when I push the choke lever down fully the engine dies. If I push it down 1/8 of the way she will run up to about 10mph but with Zero pulling power.

I have spark, perfectly clean carb, ok idle screw and no air issues. Jet is fine and doesn't need to be drilled.

(I know I have no issues as I transferred a running engine + carb + exhaust onto this particular bike and when it was on this bike it would not run anymore)

I am toying with the idea that the engine head is too flat and I'm not getting enough fuel into the intake when I lower the choke.

Any advice out there for an engine that will not run unless choke is on?

Also I tried it with the fuel cap open and no joy...

*scratches head...

Cheers guys,
Colm
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
You have a massive air (vacuum) leak somewhere. Either the carburetor to intake manifold or the manifold to cylinder gasket would be my first guesses.

If those areas have been sealed then start looking at your crankshaft seals. There are two; one behind the magneto rotor, the other behind the small, primary gear on the right side of the engine.
Anytime there is excess air entering downstream of the carburetor you will have the symptoms you describe.

What carburetor are you using and how did you seal it to the intake manifold?

Tom
 

mrfubs

Member
Jun 13, 2013
306
12
18
michigan
2 door could be right. If you are sucking air through the crank seals you are loosing cranking vacuum that way so when you take choke off it doesnt have enough vacuum to make up for morevcarb volume or you simply need to rejet. What elevation are you at?
 

Buzzing Bicycles

New Member
Jan 31, 2014
2
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0
Ireland
@mrfubs @kioshk and @2door,
Thanks for the replies!
What happened was I installed a new China Girl and had this problem on the blue bike in the pictures. I then decided to take a perfectly running engine, exhaust, manifold, CDI and carb from the Black engine-less beach cruiser to see if that would continue running.
But when I installed the perfectly running engine onto the blue bike it also had the same problem.

There was not massive vacuum while this engine was on the previous beach cruiser so I am puzzled as to why when I put it on the Blue bike it had the same problem.

The only things that were the same both times are:
Fuel
Fuel Tank
Fuel Line
Throttle Cable
Angle of installation.


I just bored out my jet (possibly a bit too much!!) and will try that tonight.

Any ideas other than air vacuum?

Cheers, Colm :)
 

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2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
Buzz,
Think of it this way: If the engine runs with the choke closed, lever up on the NT carb, then the engine is getting air from somewhere. There isn't sufficient air passing through that little hole in the choke plate to allow the engine to run. The engine dies when you open the choke because you're getting too much air to fuel, an extremely lean condition.

Now the challenge is to find out where that air is getting in. If the carburetor isn't sealed to the intake manifold by some method, sealant or an 'O' ring, it might well be there. If the intake manifold was installed with the kit supplied gasket that also is a common source of a leak. The kit gaskets are notorious for premature failure.

It appears that you have the chrome/steel intake manifold. They are almost without exception, warped from the welding process where the flange attaches to the tubular portion. That flange needs to be filed/ground/sanded flat to achieve a good gasket sealing surface. You might also want to closely inspect the intake manifold. Although I have only seen one, I found a bad weld on the flange and an opening that was a leak, albeit a small one.

Remove the left side magneto cover and inspect for evidence of oil residue. That would indicate a bad crankshaft seal. Not uncommon. On the right side, behind the small primary gear is another crank seal. Again, evidence of oil in this area would tell you the seal behind the gear is defective.

Tom
 
Last edited:

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
first thing is to move the engine back to the bike it was working well on - if problem goes away, that should make it easier to find what's different between the two

if problem is still there, then you broke something in the move
 

rogergendron1

New Member
Sep 18, 2013
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woburn ma
if you have the cns or any of its variants the choke is an enrichmant circut and adds fuel ! its backwards compared to other carbs

so if you have a cns carb and it runs with the choke on but not with it off then you are starving for fuel and are getting to mutch air, but with a nt or speed carb you are getting too mutch fuel and not enough air and turnning on the choke leans out the mix enough to let it run
 

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
11
38
San Diego, Kaliforgnia
Huh?
You have the CNS "choke" described correctly.
The NT choke is a plate with a pinhole in the center of it that when in the on position, it restricts the incoming air into the carburetor's air inlet. Restricting the incoming airflow enrichens the fuel to air ratio.
 

mapbike

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2010
5,502
109
63
Central Area of Texas
You have a massive air leak just as Tom/2door has said, check everything like he spoke of and you will find what your problem is, no need to make this a long drawn out post at all, if engine isn't getting air it needs through the carb it is getting it from around a gasket area or through a bad crank seal plain and simple......

Best wishes and hope you get it fixed asap

Map
dnut
 

SuperDave

Member
Sep 24, 2011
179
0
16
Panama City Beach, Fl. USA
I chewed up my carb o-ring removing & reinstalling the carb(caused a leak), & I never liked how loose the plastic shim spacer was(carb would work loose after 20 minutes of riding), so I replaced both with a half inch of 5/8" automotive heater hose. No more leaks, and the carb doesn't budge at all, sealed up tight.

Might be worth a shot for you to try, just make sure the hose is trimmed up straight where it seats into the carb or it may still leak.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
if you have the cns or any of its variants the choke is an enrichmant circut and adds fuel ! its backwards compared to other carbs

so if you have a cns carb and it runs with the choke on but not with it off then you are starving for fuel and are getting to mutch air, but with a nt or speed carb you are getting too mutch fuel and not enough air and turnning on the choke leans out the mix enough to let it run
Because the OP has described his choke lever we'll have to conclude that he has an NT or NT Speed.

If you close the choke plate, lever up, you restrict the inlet air thereby causing a fuel rich condition. If the engine runs with the choke closed it must be getting air from another place other than through the carburetor inlet.

As said, relying on the clamp and a metal to metal connection between the NT carb and the intake manifold is asking for a vacuum leak. Even using an 'O' ring doesn't guarantee an air tight fit because the factory sometimes machines the slots in the carb outlet side too deep and leaves a space where the 'O' ring can't seal. I've seen this on two seperate carburetors. A gasoline compatible sealant is the best way to assure a good seal.
The problem with the 'O' ring method is getting and keeping the carburetor tight enough against it for it to do its job.

Tom