Shot out to anyone who has tried this mid drive. I'm working on building my Cargo-Bike and I have wanted to try something electric for a while now. I've done 2 stroke and 4 stroke... now its time for electric.
Bafang BBS02 48V 750W Mid Drive Kit
- Thread starter Bohemian_Lady
- Start date
i have not tried it hopefully someone can give you some feedback, i will say once you go electric you will never go back, something about cruising around and it being quite is really 
ful and relaxing. i believe you will be really happy
ful and relaxing. i believe you will be really happyThanks, like I said I've tried a little bit of everything... I'm not a fan of the 2 strokes, they take so much maintenance! Or maybe they just hate me. I'm having a love hate relationship with our 4 stroke at the moment. I love it, when the ****ing belts not broken...
I figure I'm putting together a cargo bike anyway, so this time I'm going to try electric... the entry level mid drives are more expensive than the hub motors but I need that hauling power. If I was just puuting to get the mail or go to work then yeah a hub would be perfect... but I'm going to be hauling trash, water, more than a weeks worth of groceries.
I figure I'm putting together a cargo bike anyway, so this time I'm going to try electric... the entry level mid drives are more expensive than the hub motors but I need that hauling power. If I was just puuting to get the mail or go to work then yeah a hub would be perfect... but I'm going to be hauling trash, water, more than a weeks worth of groceries.
Need to define "cargo bike" a little more.
Hauling a week's worth of groceries or 10 gallons of water usually means a trike or a trailer.
I can haul loads like that in my sidecar, and the GX120 will pull it just fine.
I have an 800w 48v hub motor. I only rode it in a bicycle, and it is currently sitting in the corner of the shop.
I don't know that I would have wanted to try to drag 10 gallons of water in a trailer with that bike - unless you want a workout.
I got that hub in non-functional condition - it had become wet, and the circuit boards were not well sealed. I was able to repair it. I would be concerned with the climate in HI and electric bike parts. If you do go electric, consider waterproofing everything before you install it. Yes, I know there are parts of HI that are fairly dry - but this one got wet in NV.
The biggest issue is the cost of range / weight penalty. You can use SLA batteries, but they get heavy - you give up range or load capacity. Or you can use a lithium system of some sort - lighter, good power density - and very costly.
So fill us in on the proposed bike (trike?) layout, and terrain / grade / load the powertrain faces.
Also, what are the MB rules like in your part of HI? Are you limited to a displacement? Speed?
B
Hauling a week's worth of groceries or 10 gallons of water usually means a trike or a trailer.
I can haul loads like that in my sidecar, and the GX120 will pull it just fine.
I have an 800w 48v hub motor. I only rode it in a bicycle, and it is currently sitting in the corner of the shop.
I don't know that I would have wanted to try to drag 10 gallons of water in a trailer with that bike - unless you want a workout.
I got that hub in non-functional condition - it had become wet, and the circuit boards were not well sealed. I was able to repair it. I would be concerned with the climate in HI and electric bike parts. If you do go electric, consider waterproofing everything before you install it. Yes, I know there are parts of HI that are fairly dry - but this one got wet in NV.
The biggest issue is the cost of range / weight penalty. You can use SLA batteries, but they get heavy - you give up range or load capacity. Or you can use a lithium system of some sort - lighter, good power density - and very costly.
So fill us in on the proposed bike (trike?) layout, and terrain / grade / load the powertrain faces.
Also, what are the MB rules like in your part of HI? Are you limited to a displacement? Speed?
B
Cargo bike. I thought a bout a long tail like this but like you said, hauling water with that would be a hassle. Something like the bullitt would work but I'm leery of putting large loads like that in the front. There's also the problem of our road, its almost a 4x4 trail. Anything with a long profile is gonna have a bad time. Also any trike is going to be incredibly unstable on our road. If I lived on a nice paved road I'd go for the trike, even if they drive like a Semi!
Anyway, I have pretty much settled on a Truck style bike something akin to the old Schwinn Cycle-truck, with a trailer for water.
As for grade and terrain, there's only one big hill (a mile long with about 15% grade) and lots of little hills (a hundred feet at most with 10% at most.) On top of that there's about a mile of unpaved road, .8 miles of that is almost 4x4 track.
MB rules here are pretty well defined by a proposed bit of legislature. No ones really sure if it was enacted or not. I've spoken with a number of police officers about it and they have told me that pretty much as long as I'm not interfering with traffic and following at a minimum Bike laws I'm in the clear.
It boils down to this, as long as the motorized device does not exceed 25 MPH (for ebikes the Federal limit is 750watts) it is legal to drive. With the mid drive I propose to get I can regulate its speed with the controller. Though I seriously doubt I will be doing anywhere near 25mph with a load. I'm a little paranoid.
Now as for climate... I live in Puna, it's wet pretty much all the time. I am going to get high temp silicone sealant and make the thing as water proof as I possibly can. I too am concerned about it getting wet, that's the only reason I have avoided getting an electric thus far.
Distance wise, the dump is the farthest thing away. About 15 miles round trip, but trash bags aren't exactly heavy. The water is the thing I really worry about. The water station is about 8 miles round trip and I'd probably only take one of our 5 gallons but water is damned heavy.
And batteries... {sigh} I'm thinking I have to go with something lithium I just don't see myself getting the range or load capacity that I'm looking for with out it. On the upside if I take my charger with me the Rooster and I can hang out at the park after getting water while I give the bike a power boost.
Anyway, I have pretty much settled on a Truck style bike something akin to the old Schwinn Cycle-truck, with a trailer for water.
As for grade and terrain, there's only one big hill (a mile long with about 15% grade) and lots of little hills (a hundred feet at most with 10% at most.) On top of that there's about a mile of unpaved road, .8 miles of that is almost 4x4 track.
MB rules here are pretty well defined by a proposed bit of legislature. No ones really sure if it was enacted or not. I've spoken with a number of police officers about it and they have told me that pretty much as long as I'm not interfering with traffic and following at a minimum Bike laws I'm in the clear.
It boils down to this, as long as the motorized device does not exceed 25 MPH (for ebikes the Federal limit is 750watts) it is legal to drive. With the mid drive I propose to get I can regulate its speed with the controller. Though I seriously doubt I will be doing anywhere near 25mph with a load. I'm a little paranoid.
Now as for climate... I live in Puna, it's wet pretty much all the time. I am going to get high temp silicone sealant and make the thing as water proof as I possibly can. I too am concerned about it getting wet, that's the only reason I have avoided getting an electric thus far.
Distance wise, the dump is the farthest thing away. About 15 miles round trip, but trash bags aren't exactly heavy. The water is the thing I really worry about. The water station is about 8 miles round trip and I'd probably only take one of our 5 gallons but water is damned heavy.
And batteries... {sigh} I'm thinking I have to go with something lithium I just don't see myself getting the range or load capacity that I'm looking for with out it. On the upside if I take my charger with me the Rooster and I can hang out at the park after getting water while I give the bike a power boost.
Ok. Actually all you had to say was "Puna". For the rest of the readers, it is wet jungle that climbs to 4,000 feet from the ocean. There are about 200 miles of pavement in the whole district... which is about 500 square miles.
So you need a singletrack capable truck. Electric is not out of the question, and may offer some advantage with the roads. Sealing circuit boards is simply a case of spraying a conformal coating. Planning ahead before failure rather than chasing repairs to find the failure point.
I had the hub motor in the front of a 21 speed MTB. The FWD aspect did make it nice with reduced traction.
For your particular application I would consider a pair of hub motors for better traction.
I would not rule out SLA batteries, if you can put them low in the assembly - perhaps in the trailer. Your range requirements of 8 miles at max load are not beyond reason. A 35Ah 48v bank is about 96 pounds. That is enough power to run a pair of 750w hub motors wide open for half an hour, with plenty of reserve.
To be fair, a 212cc engine from Harbor Freight & a CVT will weigh less & have longer range - as well as lower cost.
B
So you need a singletrack capable truck. Electric is not out of the question, and may offer some advantage with the roads. Sealing circuit boards is simply a case of spraying a conformal coating. Planning ahead before failure rather than chasing repairs to find the failure point.
I had the hub motor in the front of a 21 speed MTB. The FWD aspect did make it nice with reduced traction.
For your particular application I would consider a pair of hub motors for better traction.
I would not rule out SLA batteries, if you can put them low in the assembly - perhaps in the trailer. Your range requirements of 8 miles at max load are not beyond reason. A 35Ah 48v bank is about 96 pounds. That is enough power to run a pair of 750w hub motors wide open for half an hour, with plenty of reserve.
To be fair, a 212cc engine from Harbor Freight & a CVT will weigh less & have longer range - as well as lower cost.
B
All the reading I've done suggests that hub motors aren't the best for hauling, everything points to mid drives... And which would be more cost effective? 2 hub motors or one mid drive? I'm not totally dedicated to the mid drive idea... I just want the most pull for my money. I know hub motors tend to be more reliable... but mid drives have more torque. {sigh} so much to consider...
Well,yes... and no.
Hub motors are all polyphase volts/HZ drives. They have limited torque at low speed, but if you run two of them things are 100% better. Some people are doing impressive things with dual drives.
I first met Corbin at the Willow Springs racetrack. He rode this bike there from Los Angeles, then spent the day racing it. He has no car, just this insane bike:
Corbin's dual hub motor bike
But back to torque for a moment. If you want starting torque, nothing beats a DC series motor. For a mid drive I would consider series or PMDC motors in your climate & terrain. Simple motors, easy to maintain. The opposite of a complex dual hub setup. You need a sturdy drive system. But the controller for series or PMDC motors is a simple beast.
4hp is possible on as little as 24v, but this kind of electric drive is not something you will shake out of a box as a kit.
.
Hub motors are all polyphase volts/HZ drives. They have limited torque at low speed, but if you run two of them things are 100% better. Some people are doing impressive things with dual drives.
I first met Corbin at the Willow Springs racetrack. He rode this bike there from Los Angeles, then spent the day racing it. He has no car, just this insane bike:
Corbin's dual hub motor bike
But back to torque for a moment. If you want starting torque, nothing beats a DC series motor. For a mid drive I would consider series or PMDC motors in your climate & terrain. Simple motors, easy to maintain. The opposite of a complex dual hub setup. You need a sturdy drive system. But the controller for series or PMDC motors is a simple beast.
4hp is possible on as little as 24v, but this kind of electric drive is not something you will shake out of a box as a kit.
.
Yeah I'm familiar with the bob trailers, but do I really want to spend 200-400 on something that I can't reasonably pull. That was unfair, I can get one on Walmart's site for $100, but the problem stands.
The Honda could do it if I can solve this blasted belt problem, but the Yak trailers all attach to the axle in such a way that I would risk miss aligning the belt and getting stuck 4 miles from home with 5-10 gallons of water and no way to get back to the house. Since my escapades with the belt are all too frequent I'm avoiding this.
The 49cc china girl... is slower than cold molasses, okay I'm exaggerating. But she has had more than 4000 miles put on her, while being a little brat about it the whole way. I'm expecting her to seize any day now just to spite me.
The Honda could do it if I can solve this blasted belt problem, but the Yak trailers all attach to the axle in such a way that I would risk miss aligning the belt and getting stuck 4 miles from home with 5-10 gallons of water and no way to get back to the house. Since my escapades with the belt are all too frequent I'm avoiding this.
The 49cc china girl... is slower than cold molasses, okay I'm exaggerating. But she has had more than 4000 miles put on her, while being a little brat about it the whole way. I'm expecting her to seize any day now just to spite me.
Here is a picture of my first motorbicycle. I'm glad I no longer own a china girl anymore. The trailer I made out of conduit you can get from a Home Depot.
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It was constructed out of conduit and they yellow tub that I found behind a business that went out of business. I constructed it for a trip. I filled it with about 60lbs of stuff. It would hold more than that but that is all I needed to carry for the trip. I pulled it behind the china girl for about 250miles on a trip going 28mph. The BOB trailers are better constructed though and are safer to pull because they only have the one wheel. I was concerned when I was pulling it along the shoulder of the road that someone was going to clip the trailer. You might also want to check into an X-tra Cycle. It makes a bicycle into a cargo bike.
I believe I have posted this before, but here is a pic of my xtracycle loaded for a job. Its not super heavily loaded probably around a hundred lbs(there are a lot of tools in the bags). It would easily carry more. The hub motor will easily pull off from stop if you are gentle on the throttle. I do ride in ideal conditions with paved flat roads, but this bike has no problem taking every thing I have thrown at it. Pulling the trailer puts the xrtacycle to the test, but so far so good. The trailer is robust and heavy, but also cheap. The wheels come off in about 30sec for storage. I normally pull the rig at 15mph or less, but being hot and tired after the job I some time find my speed over 20 on the way home.
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Albula vulpes:
I am familiar with the X-tra Cycles, again expensive. When I ask how your trailer was constructed I meant did you weld it, braze it, ductape, etc. Yeah someone clipping a two wheel the trailer is a huge concern of mine. I did consider converting the rear end of an old bike into a BOB style trailer, but I would have to learn to weld first...
Cannonball:
I'm going to be dealing with some pretty nasty hills, with lots of rain. Ideal conditions these are not and that's a fact that has to be dealt with. I don't have $400 just laying around to experiment with. This project has to be carefully budgeted and carried out in small stages.
I am familiar with the X-tra Cycles, again expensive. When I ask how your trailer was constructed I meant did you weld it, braze it, ductape, etc. Yeah someone clipping a two wheel the trailer is a huge concern of mine. I did consider converting the rear end of an old bike into a BOB style trailer, but I would have to learn to weld first...
Cannonball:
I'm going to be dealing with some pretty nasty hills, with lots of rain. Ideal conditions these are not and that's a fact that has to be dealt with. I don't have $400 just laying around to experiment with. This project has to be carefully budgeted and carried out in small stages.
One thing you said about the local terrain sticks out
A single wheel arrangement can go anywhere the bike goes, and with the proper articulation it is not hard to handle. Something like the old Drag N Fly:
http://dragnfly.org/
.
This can make pulling a conventional 2 wheel trailer difficult.
A single wheel arrangement can go anywhere the bike goes, and with the proper articulation it is not hard to handle. Something like the old Drag N Fly:
http://dragnfly.org/
.
