2-stroke oil vs Automatic Transmission Fluid

Fabian · Mar 11, 2010

G'day all

I've got a question for the oil tech-heads, and i know it may be a very stupid question.

Today, i was pouring out some 2-stroke oil and also some ATF into smaller containers.
They both seemed to have a zero weight viscosity and felt very similar rubbing between forefinger and thumb.

I've heard some people use ATF as a diesel fuel lubricant and others have run diesel engines on straight ATF with the engine not suffereing any ill effects.

Ok, can some knowledgeable person enlighten me as to the technical differences between ATF and 2-stroke oil and if you could substitute one for the other without reducing engine life or could you mix ATF and 2-stroke oil if that's your only option.

Fabian

camlifter · Mar 11, 2010

i know thats an old trick to sell a worn out 2 stroke, mix the fuel with atf. most atf has additives to help clutch disks grip better which can seal up a worn cylinder long enough to sell a clunker.
i use atf in the gear box of my gasgas trials bike, but i change it a lot.

Venice Motor Bikes · Mar 11, 2010

2 cycle oil is specially made to lubricate 2 cycle engines & has all the good stuff in it to protect a running engine from burning up.
ATF is basically just a fancy hydraulic fluid & has none of the good stuff that will protect a internal combustion engine from wear!

bairdco · Mar 11, 2010

if you wanna have some fun, add a few drops of ATF into the throat of your carb. you can play "spyhunter" and blow a smoke screen down the whole block.

i used to put a 1/2quart of ATF into my honda racecar's oil before changing it. let it warm up and it helps drain all the oil and gunk out (some people would argue that, but it worked great for me.) so i don't think it'd help lubricate a 2 stroke that well.

also, as far as it "feeling" the same, so does vegetable oil, baby oil, wd40, etc... i wouldn't put any of those in my engine.

Bikeguy Joe · Mar 11, 2010

Do NOT use ATF in place of two stroke oil!

chrisme · Mar 17, 2010

ATF is 3 things in one, a lubricant, hydraulic oil, and coolant for an automatic transmission.
Using it in a 2-stroke engine would completely ignore the 3 things it was meant to do, and try and make it do something completely different.
Just the same as I wouldn't run 2-stroke oil in an automatic transmission. But automatic transmissions are for sissies anyway

KDB · Jul 31, 2011

bairdco said:
also, as far as it "feeling" the same, so does vegetable oil, baby oil, wd40, etc... i wouldn't put any of those in my engine.

The hobbyists who build engines from scratch sometimes use a mix of gas and WD-40 in their engines.
Elsmore's Hit and Miss Engine Pages - Step-by-Step Construction
BTW: All the stuff they turn out is far to heavy for our proposes.

I think anything that would lubricate and burn at the right temprature would work in an emergency. When I have a few engines I don't mind losing I might experement with corn oil or something.
Until then, I suggest sticking with the tried and proven.

ferball · Jul 31, 2011

I have read on this forum more than once that a 10w30 mix would work in these engines. I know when I was in the army reserves that we used 10w30 for everything from hydralic fluid to its intended use as a lubricant. I think ATF fluid might work, but because lots of ATFs tend to be synthetic blends with detergents and stuff in them I do not think that it would offer the best "lubricating" option for two strokes.

Drewd · Aug 2, 2011

Do not use ATF for 2 strokes and don't put any in the tank of any modern diesel engine or you'll do many thousands of dollars in damage to modern diesel injection and emission systems-a diesel particulate filter is about 2 grand.

impression · Aug 2, 2011

Drewd said:
Do not use ATF for 2 strokes and don't put any in the tank of any modern diesel engine or you'll do many thousands of dollars in damage to modern diesel injection and emission systems-a diesel particulate filter is about 2 grand.

and this is why modern diesels are ****

get me an old mechanically injected diesel that will do over 500,000 miles between rebuilds.

oh wait i have one

dmb · Aug 2, 2011

back in the 70's a 1693 duel overhead cam cat inline six would run 1,000,000 miles put some new rings in it [not pistons & liners] rod bearings and go another 500,000mi at 450hp [more than most] they about drove cat out of the truck engine busness. they would not break and everybody know's peterbilts last almost forever! 5x4 duel countershafts!

Drewd · Aug 2, 2011

impression said:
and this is why modern diesels are ****

get me an old mechanically injected diesel that will do over 500,000 miles between rebuilds.

oh wait i have one

I'll take my modern one. Its so quiet that I have to tell people it is a diesel, I can stick my finger in the exhaust and it will wipe cleaner than any of my gas engines exhaust, when I step on the accelerator pedal there NEVER is a visible black cloud of death in my wake, I never have to worry about cold weather hard starts even at -22 deg F provided the fuel is winterized properly.
I don't know how long it'll last but at 103k miles, its still averaging 550 psi in each cylinder

KDB · Oct 4, 2011

Back on the topic of 2 stroke oil substitutes:

Everything always goes wrong when I have to work late.
When I went to take my bike home I noticed that the fuel line had come loose. Tank was dry. My emergency oil had about a teaspoon in it: good synthetic 2stroke oil.
The gas station had 1,000 kinds of chips but no oil.
Looking around work I found some machine lubricating oil it looked a little thick. I added the tiny bit of synthetic oil I had and mixed it well at about 24:1.
I treated it like a brand new engine( kept it slow and didn't let it get to hot) and it survived the 10 mile ride. I changed gas before starting it again.
It is now hard to start but I think some carb cleaner may fix that.

Question: if I take the carb apart to clean it what should I use?

GearNut · Oct 4, 2011

Carburetor cleaner.
I like Gunk brand. Berrymans seems to have gotten weak after the EPA forced them to change the formula.

Pilotgeek · Oct 5, 2011

Drewd said:
I'll take my modern one. Its so quiet that I have to tell people it is a diesel, I can stick my finger in the exhaust and it will wipe cleaner than any of my gas engines exhaust, when I step on the accelerator pedal there NEVER is a visible black cloud of death in my wake, I never have to worry about cold weather hard starts even at -22 deg F provided the fuel is winterized properly.
I don't know how long it'll last but at 103k miles, its still averaging 550 psi in each cylinder

And you get less fuel mileage, and pay in higher maintenance costs. A clean diesel? Where's the fun in that? A diesel is supposed to make noise and smoke. If you want something quiet and clean burning, go get a propane engine.

On topic, I would only use ATF if I had nothing else, and really needed to be somewhere.

2door · Oct 5, 2011

We used to inject ATF into the exhaust of model airplane engines to make smoke for air shows. Never tried it in the fuel tank; never occured to me to try it.

Tom

linnix13 · Nov 7, 2011

Drewd said:
I'll take my modern one. Its so quiet that I have to tell people it is a diesel, I can stick my finger in the exhaust and it will wipe cleaner than any of my gas engines exhaust, when I step on the accelerator pedal there NEVER is a visible black cloud of death in my wake, I never have to worry about cold weather hard starts even at -22 deg F provided the fuel is winterized properly.
I don't know how long it'll last but at 103k miles, its still averaging 550 psi in each cylinder

thats so lame though, the best part about a big diesel is the huge smoke cloud. i hate modern crap. even modern cars, its all plastic garbage designed to break

maintenancenazi · Nov 7, 2011

2door said:
We used to inject ATF into the exhaust of model airplane engines to make smoke for air shows. Never tried it in the fuel tank; never occured to me to try it.
Tom

Oh yea I remember those days 2door! Some of our members in our RC club would also install this on warbirds. Very cool to simulate a dogfight with, and looking like you've been " hit "!!

Mozenrath · Nov 7, 2011

GearNut said:
Carburetor cleaner.
I like Gunk brand. Berrymans seems to have gotten weak after the EPA forced them to change the formula.

Is this different from B-12 Chemtool? I didn't think Berryman made anything else.

GearNut · Nov 8, 2011

Yes, Berryman's B12 Chemtool. It used to be the best carburetor cleaner I ever had the pleasure of cleaning with. Then Kaliforgnia made them re-formulate it for environmental reasons and now it is much weaker. I have found that Gunk ( they never had to re-formulate) is alot stronger. Before the forced re-formulation of B12, it used to be the other way around.

Berrymans makes alot of industrial chemicals.
The B9 chemdip is amazing for soaking carburetors and other parts.
Berryman Products - Chemtool Products - Fuel Injector and Carburetor Cleaner - Fuel Treatment - Fuel Additives

2-stroke oil vs Automatic Transmission Fluid

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