White wire actually working?

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ckangaroo70

ckangaroo70

Active Member
May 13, 2011
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Central Illinois
On my last motorized bike I messed around with hooking up a 6v 3w light system to my bike and although the engine would start ok and the bike did run ok...it was obvious that the light system was robbing some juice from the CDI. I pretty much came to the same conclusion that most people have and that is the white wire was pretty useless.

My newest bike...for spits and giggles I decided to go ahead and try the 6V 3W light system on it. I was completely shocked that it has absolutely changed nothing. The bike starts as easy as ever and runs up over 30mph with no problem at all. Seems to have the same torque on climbing grades. I just can't see where anything has changed at all and the both the headlight and tail light are working just fine. They are not blinding bright or anything even close to that, but they are both lit up and having no ill effect on the engine running that I can tell.

I was so shocked that I removed the magneto cover to have a look in there and it has one of those newer style mags in there that only have the four holes instead of six. It also looks much more professionaly built then the ones I am used to seeing that have laquer globbed all over them with rust and cold solders. This one is clean looking, rust free and the solder jobs look much nicer. So what I wondering, is this magneto actually that much better then the old style? Has anyone else with this new style magneto experimented with using the white wire and come up with positvie results like I did, or is mine just a freak of nature? Like I said...it is not real bright, but I was just shocked that it even worked at all and was especially shocked to find it didn't affect the running any.
 
Powertool

Powertool

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Jul 8, 2012
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Bradford,TN.
Yes, I hooked up the white wire to a 6 volt head lamp I mounted to my bike. It works, like you had said not real bright but lets you be seen. safety is the key here ! would be nice if you could use it to see the road at night. maybe try L.E.D. in the near future .
 
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bigbutterbean

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Jan 31, 2011
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Lebanon, PA
I got a light on ebay from wonderful creations that is designed to run off the magneto. it is 6v 3w and has a built-in voltage regulator. it puts out about 270 lumen and its pretty bright. the engine wont start with the light on, but once running it works fine. I paid $22 for this light, they have since almost doubled the price on it.
 
ckangaroo70

ckangaroo70

Active Member
May 13, 2011
864
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Central Illinois
I will try to get some pics and maybe even take a video of mine because it really wasn't the fact that it works that suprised me. What really suprised me is that it seems to have no ill affect on the running. It starts just as easy as ever and runs just the same. I havn't even wired in a switch yet. I thought maybe I would have to have the lights off to start and then turn them on once running, but that proved to not be the case and it starts just fine with them on.

It was light raining at my house last night and it was pitch black out at around 9:00pm. So I went out and took the bike for a quick spin down the driveway to see how bright they were. The tail light is probably just as bright as the tail lights on my boat trailer and the head light was casting a beam out ahead of the bike. Maybe not quite as bright as I would like, but it is definately bright enough for oncomming traffic to see you good and it is also useable to help see . Kinda like riding around with the dims on in my old truck with bug covered head lights.LOL

I know there are 6 billion discussions regarding the white wire and 5.9 billion all saying that wire is useless. Got me to wondering how many of those 6 billion discussions envolved this newer style magneto and how many envolved the old 6 hole magneto's that looked llike they were put together by 6 year olds. Actually....I guess there is a chance that maybe they were. Anyhow...the newer 4 hole style that came in my China Girl looks 100X better and actually seems to put out enough auxilary juice to not rob from the iignition when running a 6v 3W light setup.
 
ckangaroo70

ckangaroo70

Active Member
May 13, 2011
864
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Central Illinois
Oh, and not sure if it matters much but I am running a E3.10 Spark Plug in my bike. I actually prefer it just slightly over the NGK B6HS I was using. The NGK plug was much better then the stock plug and I like them, but the engine always seemed to be a little too fat in the mid range. The E3.10 plug cleared that right up and it runs pretty smooth at all throttle positions with just a slight amount of 4 stroking when not under a load. Really nice in my opinion!
Anyhow...the effeciency of the plug might have something to do with having some extra ignition reserve, but don't know that for fact.
 
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bigbutterbean

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Jan 31, 2011
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Lebanon, PA
The reason my bike wont start with the light on is because the light has a built in regulator. its always trying to draw 6v, and the engine isnt putting out 6v until its fully turned over. it also has trouble when taking off with the light on. its not a problem though, because i wired in a momentary switch that sits right beside my clutch lever. it has to stay pushed in order for the light to come on. its not hard to push though. all i have to do is rest my thumb on it and the switch stays on. easy peasy.
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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If you are using regular bulbs in your light (not LED) the reason the motor doesn't like to start with the light on is because a cold bulb is electrically the same as a short circuit, until the bulb warms up and the filament develops some resistance. The white wire can be used for the kill switch, short it to ground and it shorts the magneto and will kill the engine. So, a cold light bulb can essentially be a permanent kill switch (until it warms). Once the motor is running it usually puts out enough power to get the bulb to glow (and increase its resistance) before the motor dies, once the bulb is warm all should be good. (within reason wattage wise) Lower wattage bulbs might allow the motor to start while they are on, and LED lights are much better in this regard because their resistance doesn't change with heat.
Last year I was running 3X 18LED flashlights as a headlight, they worked off the white wire fine and the motor would start with them on. I also added 6X AAA NiMH rechargeable batteries inside two of the flashlights and the motor kept them charged and lights glowing just fine. I added a simple circuit inside the third flashlight having a full wave rectifier, filter capacitor and some blocking diodes to keep the batteries from draining when I hit the kill switch. It worked great for me, and my motor never ran any different with this all connected (VS disconnected). I do have the new style magneto, fyi....
 
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bigbutterbean

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Jan 31, 2011
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Lebanon, PA
No, mine is LED. Its the voltage regulator that prevents the engine from starting with the light on. I just wired a killswitch to my CDI. I had a 50 LED flashlight that also ran on the white wire without a regulator, and the engine started fine with that light on.
 
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nightcruiser

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bigbutterbean said:
No, mine is LED. Its the voltage regulator that prevents the engine from starting with the light on. I just wired a killswitch to my CDI. I had a 50 LED flashlight that also ran on the white wire without a regulator, and the engine started fine with that light on.
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Does your light include an AC to DC converter as well as a voltage regulator? The voltage coming from the white wire is an extremely rough AC, without a rectifier and a filter capacitor the peaks in the AC voltage can be way up around 14V. If you rectify it without a filter cap the DC peaks spike up to about 14VDC as well, with a rectifier and a filter capacitor the DC voltage levels off to about 5-6VDC. Perhaps your voltage regulator is bleeding these rough peaks above the voltage rating of your light off to ground, which is acting like a kill switch (by shorting a good portion of the white wire output to ground)? If you are not converting the AC from the white wire to DC perhaps give it a try. It only takes 4 diodes and one capacitor, really cheap and easy. You should end up with a fairly stable 5-6VDC and the voltage regulator will bleed off much less power to ground, it should also help you deliver a bit more power to your light (because you are no longer throwing away the negative pulses and peaks of the AC output from the white wire) If you don't know how to wire this up just search the internet for "Full Wave Rectifier with Filter Capacitor" and you should find some diagrams. It might also be called a "Bridge Rectifier", fancy names for 4 diodes wired to invert the negative pulse from AC current to positive pulses. The diodes can all be general purpose diodes and the filter cap is a smallish electrolytic capacitor, very cheap and easy...
 
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bigbutterbean

Active Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Lebanon, PA
I am not that worried about it, really. I just dont start the bike with the light on. I dont even ride much at night. I wanted a light that could run off the white wire so that if I ever do ride at night, I dont have to worry about batteries going dead from sitting. The light was made by wonderful creations, a store on ebay that sells different lighting accessories for motorized bicycles. It shines plenty bright and doesnt blink at all, so I dont think AC is a problem for it. I am perfectly fine with the way it works now.
 
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nightcruiser

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Mar 25, 2011
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bigbutterbean said:
I am not that worried about it, really. I just dont start the bike with the light on. I dont even ride much at night. I wanted a light that could run off the white wire so that if I ever do ride at night, I dont have to worry about batteries going dead from sitting. The light was made by wonderful creations, a store on ebay that sells different lighting accessories for motorized bicycles. It shines plenty bright and doesnt blink at all, so I dont think AC is a problem for it. I am perfectly fine with the way it works now.
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It's all good, do whatever you feel is best.
However, if your bike wont start with the light on it is seems like it must be robbing some power from your ignition. Being an LED setup, the resistance will not rise up once the light is lit (like a regular bulb with a filament does) so it seems your light circuit would still be robbing some power from your ignition when you turn it on after the motor is running. If you ever start to notice your motor running funky when the light is on give the full wave rectifier with filter capacitor circuit a try....
 
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bigbutterbean

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Jan 31, 2011
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Lebanon, PA
In fact, coming to think of it, I dont think the AC has any effect on the situation at all. My previous headlight was a 50 led flashlight that ran on 4 AA batteries, so roughly 6v 3w. Batteries are DC, the white wire is AC, yet I never had any problems with that light other than the fact that a couple bulbs blew. I think the bulbs got overloaded because the voltage spiked in the coil. It could have also been from vibration, and I have no way of knowing for sure. All I know is, since I got the light with the built-in regulator, the bulbs have not blown. And as far as shorting the white wire to ground? The headlight is grounded to the frame through the mount. It has one wire to connect to a switch. The white wire is connected to the other terminal of the switch. I dont think anything is grounding out, as that doesn't even seem possible here. I think you are overcomplicating the situation. If you think about what I said a little more, it makes sense. The voltage regulator is ALWAYS trying to draw 6v. The mag isn't quite putting out 6v until the engine is fully turned over. So in essence, the voltage regulator is robbing all the spark when the engine is trying to start. Once the engine is fully turned over, it is putting out a full 6v, and the light works fine. If it were a current issue, I would have problems with the light all the time, which I do not.
 
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nightcruiser

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Unless its a switching mode regulator, which I doubt, your voltage regulator (discrete voltage regulator) is bleeding off to ground any voltage above its rated voltage. If you look at the voltage output of the white wire on an oscilloscope (which I have done) its a jagged AC with some pretty high narrow peaks. A discrete regulator will bleed all these peaks off to ground (and prevent your bulb from blowing due to over voltage). If you rectify the AC and apply a filter cap the peaks go away and the regulator will not be throwing off as much to ground...
Some people haven't had a problem with a load on the white wire effecting the way their motor runs, others have. I'm assuming you (and me both) are lucky enough not to have this problem (maybe due to new magneto style?). At any rate, I'm guessing guys that find a load on the white wire makes their motor run crappy might have more of an issue with your setup than you do, and might want to try installing the full wave rectifier and a filter cap in front of the regulator. It will set you back less than a dollar to do...
 
ckangaroo70

ckangaroo70

Active Member
May 13, 2011
864
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Central Illinois
Well I won't pretend to be that sharp with electronics, but all I know with my setup is that it works. The engine starts the same regardless if the lights are wired up or not and the engine runs the exact same at all throttle positions as well. Like bigbutterbean...I don't ride at night much, but nice to have them wired up just in case I am caught in the dark and not have to fool with batteries. All I did was take a 6v 3W Headlight/Tail light setup and wire it directly to the white wire with nothing else added. Not going to blind anyone for sure, but it does light up well enough to be seen easily...so I am pretty happy about that.
 
ckangaroo70

ckangaroo70

Active Member
May 13, 2011
864
126
43
Central Illinois
Here is a short little walk around video I took. This was taken on a very dark night. As you can see...the tail light shows up nicely. The headlight you can see is a bit dim, but I noticed that the video doesn't really do it justice as it is actually a bit brighter then what it appears to be in the video. I have a video camera that mounts on my hat that I use when I am flying my RC airplanes. Perhaps I will use it to take a video while I am riding the biike in the dark to give it a better perspective.
http://youtu.be/a8LiU-Pn4k0
 
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