taking a look at battery systems my way

GoldenMotor.com

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
First of all I have to decide what is the real max range I need on a ebike. I am not riding the bike to the next town for lunch so lets get real. I want the bike to give me a certain level of independence. They don't let me drive cars anymore because of a medical condition. Ebikes require no license insurance or registration at the moment. So it is the ideal compromise. The bike I built is in all ways satisfactory see the avatar. I also have one with a battery trailer which I am completing now.

Which also is a part of the battery equation. If you haul around three 20ah sla batteries you need an acceptable way to carry them. On the bicycle is a lousy option for me because I have had balance. I need a small bike so I don't fall mounting or dismounting. The faux trike or bike with trailer is my only option for SLA batteries. The sheer weight of them would cause the bike to fall over while I mounted or dismounted. I know this for a fact, been there done that.

So for me at least there is the expense of building a trailer. I can build a low cost trailer using the wheels from a thrift store 12" kids bike. Bike cost under ten bucks, metal about ten more. So proportion a share of the trailer cost over the life of the
 
Last edited:

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I put a request for information on the Visforvolt forum. If I am going to spend that kind of money on a battery system, I think I want to explore the possibility of building a generator from a 36 volt scooter motor and a pocket bike gasoline engine.

If I run the scooter motor from the gasoline engine it should create somewhere near the watts of the scooter motor, I think. I hope I can run the bike from that current alone. I am going to see what the electric gurus have to say. I might also so some google research as well.
 

Blakenstein

Member
Sep 15, 2009
561
2
16
Alta. Canada.
First of all I have to decide what is the real max range I need on a ebike. I am not riding the bike to the next town for lunch so lets get real. I want the bike to give me a certain level of independence. They don't let me drive cars anymore because of a medical condition. Ebikes require no license insurance or registration at the moment. So it is the ideal compromise. The bike I built is in all ways satisfactory see the avatar. I also have one with a battery trailer which I am completing now.

Which also is a part of the battery equation. If you haul around three 20ah sla batteries you need an acceptable way to carry them. On the bicycle is a lousy option for me because I have had balance. I need a small bike so I don't fall mounting or dismounting. The faux trike or bike with trailer is my only option for SLA batteries. The sheer weight of them would cause the bike to fall over while I mounted or dismounted. I know this for a fact, been there done that.

So for me at least there is the expense of building a trailer. I can build a low cost trailer using the wheels from a thrift store 12" kids bike. Bike cost under ten bucks, metal about ten more. So proportion a share of the trailer cost over the life of the
Hello dude have you ever heard of these? There are different sizes and their highest end is illegal in every state outside California.These are made in Canada.The dealer up here used to deal the made in China ebikes but those broke down alot so now he deals these....... The Bionx electric motor and battery electric bike conversion kit
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
I really prefer to build my own bike to be honest. I don't really care for expensive kits. My bike is perfectly satisfactory for me and cost me under 75 dollars to build. The problem is in the batteries, not the motor or the bike.

I'm not really an authority or ebikes. or gasoline bikes. or even plain bikes for that matter. I just like to experiment with things.
 

Blakenstein

Member
Sep 15, 2009
561
2
16
Alta. Canada.
I really prefer to build my own bike to be honest. I don't really care for expensive kits. My bike is perfectly satisfactory for me and cost me under 75 dollars to build. The problem is in the batteries, not the motor or the bike.

I'm not really an authority or ebikes. or gasoline bikes. or even plain bikes for that matter. I just like to experiment with things.
I've had lots of diffrent ideas from car starters to magnetic I even made a card board mock up where I turned my spokes into turbine blades and made intake shroud and outake to force incoming wind through blades to turn wheels; I called it the "fan bike" hahahah I know it will work but I need materials. :):) I know that those BionX are way too pricey. Their 5oo wat 37V lith.mag are $2000.00 I only have 200 right now. I think Ill stay with my 48cc bridgestone Titan from American Chain Drive. It''''s working great and really hauls!! :):)cvlt1
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Obviously I do not spend much time on Vis for volt forum. I got this in response to questions about how to make a diy generator circuit work.

"""It would seem that if you simply installed some better batteries, such as 12 cells of the "Thundersky" 40 Ampere-hour lithium-iron type, you would be able to meet your range requirements, and power system weight (batteries) would be about 45 pounds total.(this might be equal or less than your present batteries?) If your bike uses 36 volts at 20 amperes for "cruising speed" you would be able to travel at that speed for about 2 hours before killing the battery! (For better battery life, you would cut that time/distance to no more than 2/3 of what would be possible) Example: Bike criises at 20 mph, using 20 amperes-battery range would be 40 miles, maximum! Reduce this to about 26 miles for better battery life.--These batteries would cost about $700.00 """"


Odds are better that I will win the ballroom dancing contest, than that I would spend seven hundred bucks on batteries.
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,440
4,877
113
British Columbia Canada
Deacon, I'm sitting here trying to tell my self that I want to go and spend close to $1,800 on a hub and battery ect.

Just where is that ball room dance contest?

Steve.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Take a look at the DIY thread I might save us some real money. I am experimenting with using a weedeater and a scooter motor to make a generator to charge sla batteries while we ride. If I can do that, I can beat the lithium battery I think. You know that guy with the trike did it and i might be able to do the same thing. It is a shot in the dark but worth a try I think.
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,440
4,877
113
British Columbia Canada
Deacon, I'm a player with that one but the Province says no. The fine would buy a hub/battery and more ice tea than you and I could drink in a month.

They all want green but ask a turkey how it should be done.

Steve.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Well good luck with it. The bike has nothing to do with the trailer lol. That's my story when they stop me and I'm sticking to it.
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,440
4,877
113
British Columbia Canada
Deacon, the chances of getting caught are probably as remote as they come{for you}.
I'm a bit of a sh8t magnet. If there is any in the area it seems to find me.
The side car would be a perfect place to put the generator and a kill switch so the cops can't hear it if they get too close.

Steve.
 

fleebell

Member
Nov 5, 2009
72
0
6
Wilmington NC
What is the wattage of the motor you are using on the bike? The reason I ask is when I tried to to that with a 12 and 24v alt tied together for my 36v 750w trike The 2.5 hp harbor freight engine I used didn't have enough ommph to do it. Every time I hit the throttle on the bike the engine would die unless I did it very slowly. When I switched over to the 6.5hp it barely noticed the load..

What I'm trying to say here I guess is that unless the motor you are running is only about 250w that little engine isn't going to be able to do what you want. You will also need to figure out a way to control the voltage on the output of the motor you are using for a generator or you are going to have some serious problems with both the batteries and the bikes motor controller. It's actually simpler to use a regular 12v car alt with an external voltage regulator to get right voltage.

Lee
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
well what I'm hoping is that I can control the output of the generator by controlling the throttle of the engine. The problem with the engine might be drag from the scooter motor. I am running a 500watt scooter motor as the generator. The motor on the bike is 600 watts. My real concern right now is that the generator will be putting out about 15amps or more. I'm afraid that it's enough to fry the battery if it isn't draining faster than that. I'm just going to have to find out what happens.

I can't see why going throttle up would effect the weed eater/scooter motor generator. It shouldn't increase the drag on the generator any at all. Maybe there is something I don't understand. I think I am going to try to run it first with a 24v battery pack and the generator running at 26 or 27 volts. Then if that works, I'll ramp it up. The controller is a 24v but I'm running it 36v now.

It will be next week before I know anything much since the weather her is terrible right now.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
The other thought I had is my bike is friction drive. It doesn't have nearly the power characteristics that a chain drive has.
 

fleebell

Member
Nov 5, 2009
72
0
6
Wilmington NC
Your bike throttle won't affect the generator unless it's setup to work like an alternator charger and it tries to maintain the voltage at a certain level. If that's the case when you hit the throttle the voltage drop on the battery causes the alternator to try to take the full load i.e. engine loads up too fast and dies. That's how my system was setup. The battery and alternator output was in parallel.

If you set the voltage of the charging circuit independent of the battery voltage you will never notice a difference on the engine whether you are going fast or slow. You are going to have to have something though to set the voltage that's charging the battery. I guess the simplest way would be to sense voltage before a big high amp diode that then feeds the battery.

I was working on a simple circuit that would use a car alternator to do that and would allow me to tie in the throttle on the engine last year. I'm pretty sure I still have the circuit drawings if you would like to see them.
Lee

My home workshop site
packrat workshop index
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
My electronic knowledge is poor so I'll pass on the drawing.

My circuit will be a parallel that will allow the batteries to charge at a suitable voltage all the time. My problem will probably be over charge, since the amp output of the generator will be high. However I'm hoping that just running it for the short time of the ride, and the amp drain from the ride, will prevent the battery burn them up. If anything happens to the throttle, I think it would slow the motor not increase the speed. (just a guess) Right now it's a crap shoot. But I love a good crap shoot.

I'm starting with my oldest, poorest performing battery pack just to see what is what. And yes my generator will charge constantly at the same voltage which will be regulated by the speed at which the engine turns the motor/generator. If it burns up the battery pack. I'll just move down to a lower watt motor. A lower motor will put out less amps at the same voltage, I think.

I also expect that a lower watt motor will turn with less resistance. If i can't get it up to a high enough voltage to use with the 36v pack, I probably will switch to a lower watt motor/generator to lower the resistance and raise the voltage. I do think that i will be able to get the 500watt motor/generator fast enough but I should know tonight. I expect to have the generator completed today. I most likely won't be able to test it on the bike till later in the week.
 
Last edited:

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
9
0
north carolina
Well for those of you who doubted the generator project please line up for the "I told you so' parade. I will stand quietly while you pass and say I told you so. It was a valuable experiment. Only as a case study in what not to do. First of all the weed wacker motor pulled the scooter motor/generator for a while. The problem was that the throttle doesn't work precisely. It generated everything from 19 to 100v at about the same settings. The sprocket came loose from so much strain. It probably broke something inside the motor as well. Still it was worthwhile to me.

I learned that I will not be doing this again. I have no use for the motor, so if it starts again wonderful if not 'so what'. I have no use for a chopped up blower motor.

Where do I go from here, probably bigger batteries are in my future somewhere down the road. The ones I have still work so for a while that's what I will be using. Maybe someone will come up with a better battery before I need to buy them. Most likely it will be the day after I buy new batteries.
 

pre-war Schwinn

New Member
Nov 15, 2009
109
0
0
73
Los Angeles 90039
my favorite ebike kit is available from (campsolution.com) it costs $239.00 plus shipping and it contains a Hub Motor with any size rim+controller and throttle a rack and battery bag. no batteries. the Hub motor kit is beiong sold thru wildernes energy for twice this price.
Note: when looking for the kit go to their second page and check for the Price! $239.00 that is the clue. the photo depicts an older design but you will recie a three phase no Hall sensored Hub motor that is bullet proof it will exceed the speed limit every time the kit says 48 volts of power and it is man it rus good and any dum dum can put it on any bike Yea!!!
 

jdcburg

New Member
Jul 9, 2009
150
0
0
massachusetts
Pre-war Schwinn said "any dum dum can put it on any bike." I have to take exception to that - aluminum front forks and front hub motors are a dangerous combination. Many front forks with shocks are aluminum. Even steel forks should have torque arms put on to prevent the axle from twisting out. Look up front hub torque arms on any ebike forum to hear the horror stories. Best case - the axle spins and ruins the internal hub wiring. Worst case - a front fork breaks, tangles with the spokes and everything comes over on your head. It's an inherent risk with any front wheel drive so please be careful - jd