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High Performance Bicycle Engine Tips and Motorized Race Bicycles We all want our bicycle engines to push our bikes faster. Get exclusive engine modification tips and suggestions from us. Also check out some of our racing members builds

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  #11  
Old 09-05-2013, 01:52 AM
ivan H ivan H is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hi HD, most electronic components origonate from China, Korea, Taiwan etc. So long as they meet international standards is fine. I use charge caps made by SR passives.
U own a Jag CDI, yes? The closest I've been to one is pics on this forum. If there's anything else u need to know, uno.
LMAO indeed.
Should anyone need to know the resistance values or their placing on the layout (until I can get a clearer one up) just yell out.

Ok, I edited the 1st post, putting the resistance values & their positioning on the layout underneath the layout. Hopefully this helps. There is only 7 resistors in all so it shouldnt be too confusing. In a few days time, if people are intetested, I'll get into some simple modifications to change the timing parameters. I gave some info on this in another thread, but we can take a simpler aproach that may be more flexible in regard to adjustability. Cheers

Last edited by ivan H; 09-05-2013 at 03:51 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2013, 11:33 PM
ivan H ivan H is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hi HD, I got pix, thanks.
Cheers
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2013, 02:36 PM
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Huffydavidson Huffydavidson is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hey Ivan, one thing needs to brought into focus , and that is I can't read the caps . Get back to us.
Thax sollu
HD
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2013, 09:25 PM
ivan H ivan H is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hi, I will try to get a clearer pic u.
The 2 large caps (polypropylene charge caps) are both 0.47uf/275VAC.
The small timing caps, reading from left to right (as seen here) are;
0.47uf (on a jumper to ground);
4.7uf (next to the 760 ohm resistor). Both the cap & resistor are connected directly to ground;
0.47uf (on a jumper to ground):
The small caps in the same area as the 760 ohm resistor are the 35V Tantalum timing caps. It is important that their + marked leg goes to ground (the jumper for the two 0.47uf's).
I put this info below the layout along with the resistance values.
If anyone at all can assist in getting a decent layout & schematic up here it would be greatly apprecitated. If u need to know anything to do this u can PM me (include ur email address will make it easy).
Cheers

Last edited by ivan H; 09-07-2013 at 04:15 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:48 PM
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Huffydavidson Huffydavidson is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hey Ivan, So moving right along with this , here's the next technical questions .
#1) Can we safely assume that the jumpers on the magneto side are the lower timing curve meaning
0 - 3800 rpm ??
#2) And the the jumpers on the coil side ( timing caps ) are the retard/advance ??
#3) If this correct and accurate , the JAG graphs and charts will fall into play??
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:12 PM
ivan H ivan H is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hi HD, the jumpers on the 220 ohm resistor & on the 120 ohm resistor are the ones that affect the Low speed, or RPM operation (mostly). These are the ones u test for best Low speed pulling power with. They affect the initial firing point & placement of the whole timing curve in regard to TDC. No jumpers on is the most advanced setting, followed by adding the jumper on the 220 ohm, next with no jumper on the 220 but a jumper on the 120, & lastly with a jumper on both resistors being the most retarded setting. Wot is actually happening when u add the jumpers is that they arr being put in parallel with the 16 ohm resistor, thus lowering its value. Adding the 220 brings it down to about 14.9 ohms. Adding the 120 brings it down to about 14.117 ohms & jumpering in both resistors brings it down to about 13.3 ohms.
So reducing the 16 ohm resistors value moves the whole timing curve retarded. If u increase its value it will do the opposite & advance the whole timimg curve.
The other two jumpers affect ONLY THE HI RPM RETARD portion of the timing curve. Hope this helps. Cheers.

Last edited by ivan H; 09-09-2013 at 04:56 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:55 AM
ivan H ivan H is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Ok, these are fine for use with a general purpose, daily ride type motor but they are not suited to a race type motor. The main drawback is that they retard too far to let the motor develop the sort of revs u would want. To change this u need to loose some capacitance in the r/c timing network. The main cap there is a 4.7uf. The next value down is a 3.3uf & so if u replace the 4.7uf with a 3.3uf it should allow it to rev a good bit higher. Other smaller values are available for fine tuning, instead of just the 0.47uf. 0.1uf, 0.22uf & 0.33uf can all be used & a bit of thought about fine tuning the same way u do with the jumpers ion the 0.47uf's is all that is needed to fine tune ur retard curve to ur motors needs. Cheers
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2013, 10:04 AM
KCvale KCvale is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Thanks for sharing the diagram.
Photobucket sucks but your 1024x768 pics are great so I oriented the colored one properly and put both pics up on my server for you to share full size.

http://KCsBikes.com/pics/IvanCDI-1.jpg


http://KCsBikes.com/pics/IvanCDI-2.jpg


Link them how you see fit or I'll take them down if you want, just trying to help ;-}

Any reason you can think of why you couldn't use this 20Ω pot for your 3 resister 2 jumper trimming?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...p5j7mmWEE18%3d


Another option for the 2 cap jumpers would be a little PCB mount 2 pole dip switch or little 3 position rotary.

The point is with a little effort you or jag could actually make a sealed enclosed box with external adjusters and even put a keylock switch in the thing like I did on the stock CDI's for awhile.



Just food for thought.
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2013, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Deleted do to incorrect information.
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Last edited by Huffydavidson; 06-01-2015 at 07:31 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:23 PM
ivan H ivan H is offline
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Default Re: Performance CDI layout and schematic diagrams

Hi KCValue, thank you very much for that, much, much better. Ur question about the minature pots fits in perfectly with the next step I was meaning to describe;
continually variable initial timing setting between a point a bit advanced of the normal most advanced setting, thru to the most retarded setting by using a minature 25 turn 250 ohm vertical trim pot. As HD said, vibration can be a real problem (tho the multi turn pots cope with this much better). The answer would be to tune using the pot, then remove it without changing the position of rotation, then measure from to find the resistance across it & make up a resistor of the same (or as close as possible) value to solder in. (In a race type CDI I wouldnt want jumpers).
So, u wiuld need;
an 18 ohm resistor;
a 51 ohm resistor;
a minature, 25 turn, 250 ohm vertical trim pot.

The trim pot is a little plastic block with 3 connections (pins) exiting the bottom & a small screw head at one end on top.
U would replace the 16 ohm resistor with the 18 ohm. Remove the 220 ohm & 120 resistors & their jumper pins.
Now u will want to use the trim pot as a variable resistor rather than a divider so u will connect the (variable) center leg to one of the end legs. Use ur multimeter to work out which one to connect it to, so that u know when u turn the screw u know whether ur making the resistot bigger or smaller (with regard to the way that u r turning the screw).
The trim pot cam go on the board where one pair of jumper pins were with the 51 ohm resistor then connecting the trim pot to the cathode of the SCR (where the 220 or 120 ohm WAS, depending on which spot u use).
So now, with the trim pot at its full value of 250 ohms the initial firing point will be slightly ADVANCED of the most advanced setting (no jumpers on the 220 or 120 ohm resistors) previously available. (basicly increases the 16 ohm to 16.984 ohms).
With the trim pot at its smallest value of zero ohms, the initial firing point will be roufhly the same as if u had a jumper on both the 220 & 120 ohm resistors. (basicly decreases the 16 ohm to 13.304 ohms).
To read the value of the trim pot once u have found ur ideal setting, u will first need to remove it from the circuit.
To then make uo a resistor of the same value u can put resistors in series, which adds their values together, or in parallel (use an online calculator to make it easy, google parallel resistor calculator), or a combination of series/parallel to get the value u need if it isnt available.
I think I'd be inclined to try leaving the minature trim pot in circuit before making up a fixed value resistor as I really think it might handle the vibration. When u see how they're constructed u'll see wot I mean.
So hopefully u can all understand my description of wot u need to do. If not, give me a yell asking about wot u dont understand & we'll try & clear it up.
With regard to the timing cap for use with a high reving race type motor, I think that changing from a 4.7uf to a 3.3uf will be enough of a reduction to allow the kind of revs needed for a race motor but this isnt something I have tested. My motor is ported & tuned for a wide midrange power band for use with a shift kit & 8 speed cassette, so my CDI is set up with just a smidge more initial advance & just a tad steeper retard curve (small extra capacitance), to keep it on the pipe which has slightly longer header.
By the way, nice job on the key lock ignition there KCVale, nice looking bike also, wot we can see of. The 3 position switch for the timing caps isnt a bad idea either, for a daily ride type aplication. For a race type motor I think I'd first tune the CDI to suit the motor's requirements, then solder all components in properly, just to ensure nothing could go wrong.
Cheers

Last edited by ivan H; 09-10-2013 at 02:35 AM.
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