New Cranbrook Build...

Otto · Dec 12, 2012

New Cranbrook/LaJolla Build...

I'm looking at building a Huffy Cranbrook for my first build, and will have beaucoup questions to come.

I picked the Cranbrook for a couple of reasons with the low price being one of them. I would love to have a Deep 6 or something similar, but felt that wouldn't be my best choice for my first build.

I'm torn about how to go forward. I could get a china 66cc kit, or I could get the HS 49cc kit, or scratch build using a 79cc/99cc HF engine as the foundation. I think I would prefer using a four-stroke engine, so that would eliminate the china 66cc kit. I have read that the HF 99cc engine has been discontinued, but not sure if that is correct, or just hearsay. If I go scratch built, I'm at a loss as to what all I would need to complete the build. I'm guessing that the HS 49cc kit would have everything I need to get this going, as well as staying within the legal requirements, but I'm not sure what those are here in Texas, or specifically the Dallas/Forney area.

Any suggestions as to the best way to proceed would be appreciated as this is all totally new to me. I have read various posts on this site for the past two weeks and am more confused than I thought I would be. I'll also mention that my main use would be to ride around the local neighborhood, and to hopefully get together with other enthusiasts by transporting my bike. From my subdivision, there is no way to ride out of here. The only way in is on FM740 which is 55mph, and there are no shoulders on the road.

I will also mention that this build will have to be in conjunction with an ongoing car project that I've been working on for 5 years.

Thanks for any, and all, help,
Otto...

bigbutterbean · Dec 12, 2012

Hey, I have built a Cranbrook with a 66cc china 2 stroke, and I have made all kinds of upgrades to the frame, so I think I can answer some of your questions about that. I am now tired of 2 strokes and building a 98cc Lifan (honda clone) engine. However, I'm not putting it on the cranbrook, but most of the parts you will need will be the same no matter which 4 stroke engine you choose, unless you buy a kit then all the parts are already there. One of the nice things about 4 strokes is that there are a lot of different options available to choose from as far as parts are concerned. Check the DIY section for some ideas and see what others have done. If you have any questions about the Cranbrook, feel free to pm me.

Jim C · Dec 12, 2012

Hi Otto, I am in the midst of building a Huff Cran my self. It is my second build. I chose the SD Stinger 2 stroke because I used one in my first build. And I like the looks of it (reminds me of an old flat head single) And I want a vintage look. I am going slow with this build but it all looks straight forward. I am fabricating a front motor mount and expect to run into some coaster brake arm issues as I move along with this. Keep us posted Otto.

maniac57 · Dec 12, 2012

I had no issues with the coaster brake on my latest Cranbrook, just loose the dust cap and be careful centering the sprocket since the cran hub is a little smaller than the hole. I use tape to center it when I tighten the ragjoint. Just wrap a thin strip around the hub to fill the gap evenly.

I removed the fenders and chainguard for the look and to prevent vibration noise and failures in the fender hardware.

bigbutterbean · Dec 13, 2012

I had chain rub issues with the balloon tires that came with my Cranbrook, so watch out for that.

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

bigbutterbean said:
Hey, I have built a Cranbrook with a 66cc china 2 stroke, and I have made all kinds of upgrades to the frame, so I think I can answer some of your questions about that. I am now tired of 2 strokes and building a 98cc Lifan (honda clone) engine. However, I'm not putting it on the cranbrook, but most of the parts you will need will be the same no matter which 4 stroke engine you choose, unless you buy a kit then all the parts are already there. One of the nice things about 4 strokes is that there are a lot of different options available to choose from as far as parts are concerned. Check the DIY section for some ideas and see what others have done. If you have any questions about the Cranbrook, feel free to pm me.

Thanks BBB. I haven't even taken the bike out of the box yet as I'm still trying to work out all of the details involved with this. I'm sure I'll have questions for you.

Jim C said:
Hi Otto, I am in the midst of building a Huff Cran my self. It is my second build. I chose the SD Stinger 2 stroke because I used one in my first build. And I like the looks of it (reminds me of an old flat head single) And I want a vintage look. I am going slow with this build but it all looks straight forward. I am fabricating a front motor mount and expect to run into some coaster brake arm issues as I move along with this. Keep us posted Otto.

Thanks for your reply Jim C. Not sure what "SD" means as I've not learned all of the terminology yet. With regard to the 2 stroke, I agree that they look the best to me as well. They just have that vintage look like you say. I believe I read that at least one of the vendors offers offset brake arms.

maniac57 said:
I had no issues with the coaster brake on my latest Cranbrook, just loose the dust cap and be careful centering the sprocket since the cran hub is a little smaller than the hole. I use tape to center it when I tighten the ragjoint. Just wrap a thin strip around the hub to fill the gap evenly.

I removed the fenders and chainguard for the look and to prevent vibration noise and failures in the fender hardware.

Thanks for the hub tip Maniac57. I was thinking about using a hub adapter and sprocket instead of the rag joint since I've read about problems with them. Then again, I may just go that route for my first build for the experience.

bigbutterbean said:
I had chain rub issues with the balloon tires that came with my Cranbrook, so watch out for that.

Thanks BBB. I like the larger tires so will definitely keep an eye on that.

I appreciate everyones input. I have a lot to learn about all of this so please keep them coming.

It seems that the HF 99cc engine isn't going to be easy to find, so I may either go with the HS 49cc kit, or one of the two-stroke kits for cost and looks. Still trying to decide all of the things I need to make this happen. I like the idea of a front suspension fork, and either disc or drum brakes. So many choices...

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

Forgot to mention that I'm guessing the 79cc HF engine would work as well, but then I will need to piece everything together myself rather than having it done in kit form.

I've noticed that it seems that a majority of motorized bicycle riders are using engines larger than 50cc. Are they legal where you live, or do you not get hassled? Although I still have my motorcycle endorsement, I would rather not deal with registration, plates, insurance, etc. Thoughts?

Thanks,

bigbutterbean · Dec 13, 2012

I have not been hassled so far, but my state law dictates that any vehicle with an engine attached is considered a motorized vehicle and therefore must be registered. Anything under 50cc can be registered as a moped as long as it has an automatic or one speed transmission. Anything 50cc or over, regardless of transmission type, legally considered a motorcycle here. But I dont worry too much about the cops. There is one guy around here with a stretch cruiser bicycle with a 4 stroke engine that he claims is 49cc and has a 6 speed transmission. There is also another guy that rides a factory made moped without tags. If the cops dont bother them, they aren't going to bother me, especially because I am only gearing my bike to go 30, maybe 32 tops. As far as hub adapters and rag joints are concerned, the rag joint is ok for kit use, but it does put stress on the spokes after awhile, and you need to make absolutely sure that you have it installed correctly or you can damage your spokes. I would not recommend a rag joint for a non-kit engine. I just dont think they can handle the exttra torque, and thats why I'm getting a hub adapter for my 98cc build. I know that its easier to put a kit together for your first build, thats what I did, nothing wrong with that. But putting a diy bike together will be a more involved learning process and will give you more experience. Plus you can say to yourself, not only did I put this together, I built it piece by piece with parts I handpicked myself. I think thats going to be a great feeling. But if you do decide to get a kit, nothing wrong with that either. You will still get a great sense of accomplishment out of putting it together and getting it running.

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

BBB, you make a good point about the satisfaction of DIY. I guess I'm just a bit intimidated by not knowing what to get, and which components are compatible with each other. I know that comes with experience, but I would rather not be on the bleeding edge if I can avoid it. I bought the book "Motorized Bicycles" by Tom Bartlett and was hoping it would go into more detail about building one. Although I enjoyed the historical information presented, there really wasn't anything about actually building one.

I'm heading over to HF right now as I thought I saw a 99cc there. If they have it, or the 79cc, I might just go ahead and buy it now, and work out the details of what else I will need as I go. I need to measure the hub on the Huffy to see if the Manic Mechanic adapter/sprocket will work. If not, perhaps there is another adapter that will.

maniac57 · Dec 13, 2012

I should state I always use chinagirls cause I'm cheap and I love ring-dingers...I grew up on dirtbikes and love nothing more than fourth-gear wheelies on an open-class two-stroke!

biknut · Dec 13, 2012

Otto, if I were you, I'd get a either a china girl, or some type of 50cc 4 stroke. In Texas we ride in a gray area of the law. If you motor is big enough to be considered self propelled, you risk getting a ticket for riding an unregistered moped. About a $1000 ticket. They could also tack on no insurance, and possibly no motorcycle license if you don't have one.

I know from experience you won't have any trouble with a china girl motor, or some of the rack mount 35 and 50 cc motor kits. Any HF motor will be pushing the limit.

Personally I would get a Flying Horse motor and call it good.

biknut · Dec 13, 2012

biknut said:
Otto, if I were you, I'd get a either a china girl, or some type of 50cc 4 stroke. In Texas we ride in a gray area of the law. If you motor is big enough to be considered self propelled, you risk getting a ticket for riding an unregistered moped. About a $1000 ticket. They could also tack on no insurance, and possibly no motorcycle license if you don't have one.

I know from experience you won't have any trouble with a china girl motor, or some of the rack mount 35 and 50 cc motor kits. Any HF motor will be pushing the limit.

Personally I would get a Flying Horse motor and call it good.

In addition, no matter what you decide to make, whenever you leave a stop be sure and pedal at least a little bit. That way the police won't be able to say for sure your bike is self propelled, unless you've got something like a V8 in it LOL.

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

Ouch! A $1000 ticket would not be cool as I'm on a fixed income. What are the consequences of riding a "legal" 49cc bike? Do I need any kind of registration, inspection, insurance or license? I do still have my MC endorsement on my license.

Right now I've given up the idea of either the HF 99cc OHV, or the 79cc OHV, but was wondering about a 98cc HF flathead I found. What I like about it is 1, it is a flathead, 2 it would mount flat with the cylinder in a vertical position and 3, the pull-start would be toward the rear with the output shaft on the left hand side where it needs to be. This engine has been superseded with the 79cc OHV, but I have found a couple of the original flatheads. What would you all think about using one of those?

If anyone has any experience with one of the little flatheads I'm talking about, I would appreciate a quick reply as I'm getting ready to go pick them up in about 30 minutes. If they are a no-no, then I can always return them for a refund. If these won't do, then I'll go with a chinagirl, or the HS 49cc kit.

Again, thanks for all of the input.

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

By the way, I did find a 99cc HF motor that was the display, but they wouldn't sell it. They claimed that it was a return that was damaged. It was obvious to me they weren't being truthful as that engine had never seen any use whatsoever. Oh well, it's just as well as I don't need the hassle of getting stopped for an illegal vehicle.

bigbutterbean · Dec 13, 2012

Otto said:
BBB, you make a good point about the satisfaction of DIY. I guess I'm just a bit intimidated by not knowing what to get, and which components are compatible with each other. I know that comes with experience, but I would rather not be on the bleeding edge if I can avoid it. I bought the book "Motorized Bicycles" by Tom Bartlett and was hoping it would go into more detail about building one. Although I enjoyed the historical information presented, there really wasn't anything about actually building one.

I'm heading over to HF right now as I thought I saw a 99cc there. If they have it, or the 79cc, I might just go ahead and buy it now, and work out the details of what else I will need as I go. I need to measure the hub on the Huffy to see if the Manic Mechanic adapter/sprocket will work. If not, perhaps there is another adapter that will.

There is a wealth of information available here about which parts will work with which engines. If you need to know something, just ask and there will be plenty of people willing to help. If you buy a 79cc or 99cc, there are 2 transmissions that will fit it. The ezm qmatic transmission and the agk (affordable go karts) transmission. It is up to you to decide what engine you wish to go with, but 4 strokes are far more reliable and require less maintenance than the 2 stroke kits. If you do buy a 79cc or 99cc, you will probably want to remove the governor. you can always gear your bike for lower speeds of 25 to 30. The 79 and 99cc engines can only make 3600 rpm with the governor installed, and the clutch engages at 2700, only giving you about 900 useable rpms. There are tutorials available on removing the governor. Just dont let anyone tell you that. you ought to limit yourself or start off small. Build what YOU'RE comfortable building. Good luck.

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

BBB, any knowledge about the 98cc flathead HF engine I mentioned? It was used on a water pump, but has been substituted with the 79cc OHV engine. This little flathead looks pretty cool, and it looks a lot smaller than the OHV engines.

bigbutterbean · Dec 13, 2012

I dont know much about the engines on the waterpumps. If it has a horizontal output shaft, it should be the same as the 98cc flathead I'm using, but thats only a guess. What i can tell you about my flathead is that its a 5/8" keyed shaft, and the bolt pattern to bolt up a transmission is 2.5" x 2.5". From what I hear, most of the 2.5-3 HP 4 strokes are the same, but I cant say for sure on the waterpump engine. Perhaps someone else will chime in who knows for sure. I do know for sure that the 79cc and 99cc ohv engines are the same as my engine as far as pto (output shaft) diameter and bolt patterns.

biknut · Dec 13, 2012

Otto said:
Ouch! A $1000 ticket would not be cool as I'm on a fixed income. What are the consequences of riding a "legal" 49cc bike? Do I need any kind of registration, inspection, insurance or license? I do still have my MC endorsement on my license.

In Texas, all motor vehicles are considered self propelled. If it's self propelled, it's a motor vehicle no matter what size engine it has. 49cc, or 4900cc makes no difference. A 49cc pocket bike is illegal because they have no pedals, so they can't be called a bicycle, and since the motor is the only form of propulson, they have to be considered self propelled. That makes them motor vehicles. Also Pocket bikes aren't allowed to be registered as a moped so they're illegal to ride on the street.

So the deal breaker becomes, does it require pedaling to start off from a dead stop, or not. If it doesn't, then it's considered self propelled, and therefore a motor vehicle which requires registration. You can't register a bicycle in Texas, so any bicycle that would be considered self propelled would be illegal. The ticket would be for an unregistred moped. No liability insurance is also a biggie, and it's required for all motor vehicles.

On the other hand, if you have to pedal it even a little to get going, then that isn't considered self propelled, and in that case it's just a bicycle.

Texas law enforcement officers are aware of china girls, and are leaving them alone pretty much statewide. Other small engine kits like rack mounts will probably not raise any undo attention either, and even an in frame 50 cc 4 stroke would probably be alright. But if you build a bike that goes 45+ mph, and a police officer sees you doing it, you'll probably get their attention, and trying to say it's not self propelled may not fly.

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

biknut said:
In Texas, all motor vehicles are considered self propelled. If it's self propelled, it's a motor vehicle no matter what size engine it has. 49cc, or 4900cc makes no difference. A 49cc pocket bike is illegal because they have no pedals, so they can't be called a bicycle, and since the motor is the only form of propulson, they have to be considered self propelled. That makes them motor vehicles. Also Pocket bikes aren't allowed to be registered as a moped so they're illegal to ride on the street.

So the deal breaker becomes, does it require pedaling to start off from a dead stop, or not. If it doesn't, then it's considered self propelled, and therefore a motor vehicle which requires registration. You can't register a bicycle in Texas, so any bicycle that would be considered self propelled would be illegal. The ticket would be for an unregistred moped. No liability insurance is also a biggie, and it's required for all motor vehicles.

On the other hand, if you have to pedal it even a little to get going, then that isn't considered self propelled, and in that case it's just a bicycle.

Texas law enforcement officers are aware of china girls, and are leaving them alone pretty much statewide. Other small engine kits like rack mounts will probably not raise any undo attention either, and even an in frame 50 cc 4 stroke would probably be alright. But if you build a bike that goes 45+ mph, and a police officer sees you doing it, you'll probably get their attention, and trying to say it's not self propelled may not fly.

Thanks for that info Biknut. If I understand correctly, a bicycle with a motor isn't considered a motor vehicle if it can't start moving without pedal assistance, and that no liability insurance would be required in that case.

I have no intension of riding a bicycle 45 mph. I'm looking to putt around at 25-30 tops even if it could go 45. I'll make sure to pedal from any standing stop just in case I'm being watched.

Any other input from you will surely be appreciated as I know you went through a bunch of mumbo jumbo in this regard. Are there any organized groups of motorized bicycle riders in the area? It would be fun to get together with others of the same interest.

Thanks again,

Otto · Dec 13, 2012

bigbutterbean said:
I dont know much about the engines on the waterpumps. If it has a horizontal output shaft, it should be the same as the 98cc flathead I'm using, but thats only a guess. What i can tell you about my flathead is that its a 5/8" keyed shaft, and the bolt pattern to bolt up a transmission is 2.5" x 2.5". From what I hear, most of the 2.5-3 HP 4 strokes are the same, but I cant say for sure on the waterpump engine. Perhaps someone else will chime in who knows for sure. I do know for sure that the 79cc and 99cc ohv engines are the same as my engine as far as pto (output shaft) diameter and bolt patterns.

Do you happen to know the length of the shaft? Looking at the specs in the ownner's manual for this engine/pump, it looks like the shaft is 15mmx31mm and has an outsied thread of M10 x 1.25-6h. Does any of that sound familiar? I will measure the bolt pattern once I remove the pump. Don't know if this thing has a keyed shaft yet.

Thanks,

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