bogging at high speeds

GoldenMotor.com

deskman

New Member
Aug 29, 2012
42
0
0
california
Hello gang!


So i have a problem that I've been quite unsuccessful at fixing, regardless of
how much i use the search function.

My bike bogs down at speeds in excess of 34 mph, once it hits those speeds itll cut back to about 29mph and stay there for a few seconds and then repeat..back to 34mph then 29mph etc.
The bike is acting like it is starved of fuel or air or something.

However the other day i was riding down a hill and my bike was doing its usual 34mph to 29mph bogging, and then suddenly it the bogging stopped!
my bike went to 38mph and didn't bog at all, it was awesome. it then ran out of fuel 20 seconds later.

Why would having very low fuel eliminate this problem? I filled the tank back up and the bogging continued.

I scrapped the petcock and replaced it with a large valve that is always open, so my bike is getting fuel from the tank very quickly, no bottleneck there. I'm running an inline filter,
but gas seems to be passing through that quickly as well.
I'm running a stock NTTC carb with stock jetting and I'm on the second from the top clip on the needle. I'm running the stock air filter with holes drilled in it for better air flow.
I'm also running with opti-2 oil, if that matters.

It seems that my bike in its current condition shouldn't bog like this, it didn't in the past. I've had the bike for more than a year.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
The first thing I usually ask when a question like this comes up is, how many miles does the engine have on it? If less than 200, give it a chance. 2 to 300 is about right to consider an engine broken in if we're talking about a Chinese 2 stroke which I assume you have because it has the NT carburetor.

When the fuel ran out you were in a lean condition. Increased power is normal but you can't run it continously that way because you'll damage things. If the engine is surging then my guess is that you're running on the edge of too lean.

Keep in mind that the clip position on the needle only controls fuel flow at or below about 3/4 throttle. Anything above that and the main jet determines how much fuel the engine gets.
It's not common for one of these engines/carburetors to run lean out of the box. In fact they're usually on the rich side requiring that a smaller jet be used to get optimum performance. Nevertheless, going back to milage, unless you have over 200, don't worry too much about performance until you do.

I run Opti-2 also and know that plug readings can be a bit nebulous in that Opti typically displays only shades of grey but I shoot for a medium shade, not wet, and not too light.
But a few spark plug readings might tell you where you need to be. At what fuel to oil ratio are you running. Opti should be run at the recommended 100:1. Anything more than that and you're on the oil rich side which can dergrade performance.

Tom
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,631
409
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Dallas
Bogging is usually caused by running rich. Most china girls are jetted rich from the factory. You need to try a 68-66 jet. Maybe even smaller. The stock jet is equal to about a 70.
 

deskman

New Member
Aug 29, 2012
42
0
0
california
to 2door:

my bike has upwards of 1500 miles on it i think. definitely broken in.
im running a 100:1 opti-2 and my spark plug is at a solid dark tan color, from pictures I've seen my plug is in the right range.

i always assumed i was okay in terms of rich/lean because my spark plug always looked fine.


so you guys are saying i should just rejet? that makes sense, I'm just confused why this problem is relatively recent. i moved from santa barbara to santa cruz recently and primarily noticed it here (however i may notice this problem more as there are many more hills in santa cruz)
 

crassius

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2012
4,032
158
63
USA
sounds like you're foaming the fuel in the bowl

to much vibration can do that and too long an intake pipe can do it too

I've fixed it on a couple bikes by putting a rubber section in the middle of the pipe and then making a mount that fastens the carb right to the frame.
 

xseler

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2013
2,886
151
63
OKC, OK
Have you checked to make sure the intake is still tight to the motor? Since it was running ok before, may just be something simple.
 

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
175
63
Littleton, Colorado
What is the altitude difference between Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz? By that I mean are you higher or lower measured from sea level? Altitude plays a big part in the way an engine runs. The higher you are the less dense the air so you'll have to go a little leaner with your fuel to air mix. Lower altitudes require a bit more fuel due to the denser air.

If there isn't a substantial difference I'd start looking for an air (vacuum) leak in the intake circuit. That can cause a lean condition because the engine is getting more air than it needs.

Tom
 

deskman

New Member
Aug 29, 2012
42
0
0
california
the altitude difference is very very low, so it doesn't seem to be the area.


the intake pipe is super tight. and i just rebuilt my carb and verified that there isnt any junk in the jet or the fuel intake hole.

there doesn't seem to be any air leaks, i've torqued the head bolts pretty tight as well.

maybe you're onto something biknut about vibration foaming the bowl. i've checked the gas tank and it doesn't foam, but perhaps the carb is because it is closer to the engine? perhaps it foams when i hit really high RPMs but before that(as in lower than 30mph) it won't foam and run just fine..
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,631
409
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Dallas
maybe you're onto something biknut about vibration foaming the bowl. i've checked the gas tank and it doesn't foam, but perhaps the carb is because it is closer to the engine? perhaps it foams when i hit really high RPMs but before that(as in lower than 30mph) it won't foam and run just fine..
I think it was crassius mentioning that. The only time I've ever had a problem with vibration foaming the bowl was once when my rear motor mount came loose.

Keep these things in mind,

Judging your mixture when using opti1 is kind of tricky.
Air leaks usually cause bad idle.
Most stock jets are too rich even at sea level. If you're at 5000' that's worse.
Try a NGK B6HS gapped at 0.025", if you don't like that try BP6HS.
Make sure you have a good spark plug cap and wire. Stock is not trustworthy.
 

deskman

New Member
Aug 29, 2012
42
0
0
california
i just went to check my mounts and sure enough my back one was very loose!
i haven't ridden yet so we'll see if that fixes the problem...

my spark plug definitely doesnt indicate that im running too rich, and I can idle just fine.

and i do have the NGK B6HS...i think that was my first part i bought for my bike...oh if only i knew how many parts i would be buying in the long run...
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,271
1,810
113
Los Angeles, CA.
I concur with the others that it's probably just a hair too rich... Like 2Door said, make sure it's completely broken in before worrying about re-jetting it, because these little engines start to run better & better the more they break in! By the time it's fully broken in it might not need to be re-jetted at all. ;)
 

BigBlue

Member
Nov 29, 2011
781
0
16
California
i just went to check my mounts and sure enough my back one was very loose!
i haven't ridden yet so we'll see if that fixes the problem...

my spark plug definitely doesnt indicate that im running too rich, and I can idle just fine.

and i do have the NGK B6HS...i think that was my first part i bought for my bike...oh if only i knew how many parts i would be buying in the long run...
If that don't fix it, then you might want to check your plug wire for cracks or breaks. It might be grounding out. Also make sure the plug wire is secure to the CDI.

Good Luck,

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 

deskman

New Member
Aug 29, 2012
42
0
0
california
well ill be darned, tightening all the mounts fixed the problem right up! never would i have thought fuel frothing would make my bike act like that.

I'll keep playing with my air filter and needle settings and jetting to see how much power i can drag outta this sucker.

who would have thought a year in and i'd be still modding this bike almost daily!




anyway, thanks for all your help gentlemen, i really appreciate it!