So I am going to either buy or build an electric bicycle.

cory151 said:

How much money are you looking to spend. You can build an bike with a 1000 watt Hub motor and LiPo batteries that will haul 250lbs at 35 mph for about $1000.................

But it'll only go 4 miles, maybe 6 if your pedaling.

Otherwise i think you should save your money for a few years and allow technology can catch up with your dreams.

Lastly it aint gonna be cheap to run great distance at that speed. I suggest you learn all you can about LiPo batteries as they can be a very dangerous compound. People have watched there entire houses and cars burn to the ground from LiPo miss use.

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Cory

4-6 miles.

I think you are misinformed.

35 miles + 35MPH is easily obtainable with LiPo and a budget of $1000.
See the link for HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store :.
Your are right about the dangerous of LiPo.
Go to Endless Sphere for more info.

POPS

Yeah, but the OP is looking for that speed AND be "legal"..
AINT gonna happen...
Most states only allow 20mph top speed.
(Texas too)..

I saw a guy in Florida who gave his (13 y/o) kid a 48v 30a powered ebike (27-30mph capable) and thought that was a good idea..

A cop sees a young child doing 30 on the road is gonna attract attention.

SANGESF said:

Yeah, but the OP is looking for that speed AND be "legal"..
AINT gonna happen...
Most states only allow 20mph top speed.
(Texas too)..

I saw a guy in Florida who gave his (13 y/o) kid a 48v 30a powered ebike (27-30mph capable) and thought that was a good idea..

A cop sees a young child doing 30 on the road is gonna attract attention.

Click to expand...

When he said the word legal, he refered to motorcycle.

For e-bike he said safe.

POPS

That may be what he said... (actually he said motorBIcycle)
But he meant, since he doesn't have a license (gas powered bikes in TX require a license), he wanted to go the e-bike route...
Problem is, same thing holds true, IF your ebike I capable of speeds greater than 20...

Trust me, if I cop sees a teenager on a bicycle going 35mph, he's GONNA get pulled over.. There is NO doubt about that.

SANGESF said:

That may be what he said... (actually he said motorBIcycle)
But he meant, since he doesn't have a license (gas powered bikes in TX require a license), he wanted to go the e-bike route...
Problem is, same thing holds true, IF your ebike I capable of speeds greater than 20...

Trust me, if I cop sees a teenager on a bicycle going 35mph, he's GONNA get pulled over.. There is NO doubt about that.

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Opps, Me bad, Your Right, Motorbicycle.
As far as getting stopped,
Same thing here!

POPS

POPS said:

Cory

4-6 miles.

I think you are misinformed.

35 miles + 35MPH is easily obtainable with LiPo and a budget of $1000.
See the link for HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store :.
Your are right about the dangerous of LiPo.
Go to Endless Sphere for more info.

POPS

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Ok Pops, I respect your knowledge and have great respect for ebikes but Im a fan of calculations.....

1) OP says hes 250lbs "plus"
2) OP says 35MPH "plus"
3) You say "35 miles + 35MPH is easily obtainable with LiPo and a budget of $1000.


Lets say OP wants a cheap hub motor kit?
For a 250lbs "plus" man it will need to be a decent size (wattage) hub motor.
With a guy this size I would say the Crystalyte kit is appropriate, but for the sake of argument lets go with the ever so common, $500.00 Nine Continent motor (9C), and he gets a controller and a way to monitor battery (very important with Lithium) status via the CA.
The Grin Cyclery

Next we need a battery, I say this individuals lack of experience warrants him getting a LiFePO4 for safety and Ping has been mentioned as a suggested and respected vendor. Remember 36V is pretty much out of the question for 35 "plus" miles per hour so it will have to be at least 48V right? Now we need to get to that velocity and maintain it for 35miles. This battery 'might' do that

48V 30AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack

Or lets say he decides hes gonna peddle his ebike part of the way (when at that speed hed only be contributing to about 5% efficiency and would be better off crouching down to reduce wind resistance) but just for the sake of argument he can get by with this
48V 30AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack

Remember this Ping fellow charges $100 shipping from China so thats:

$700 --------Battery/BMS
$550---------9C Motor (fast winding, plus shipping, w/CA,ebrakes, controller).
$ 30---------Torque arm for that power levels probably need two.
$300-????? --Bike,well just say he gets a deal on a used Trek off CF.
Total: $1,580.00 This is assuming that cheaper batt will get the job done, which I do not believe it will. Let me know if Im all wrong about this?

Now if you wanna start out with LiPo instead of the safer LiFePO4 you are gonna need to get a charger and a balancer $50-$200. Now that charger is made to be run off a car battery you will need a decent DC power supply $70-$300.

For batteries you are going to want to keep your voltage around 48V or more to hit that speed, yet you need lots of amp/hours to hit that distance. Two of these in a series will get you 44v then you must at least parallel another pair for a total of 4 packs for around $300
HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5800mAh 6S 25C Lipo Pack

Again it should be noted that I dont believe 4 pacs of 6s will get you 35 miles at 35 mph, again correct me if Im wrong. Im not even considering Andersons, 12AWG wires and anything needed to build the packs and maintain LiPo packs.

Oh and what ever you do.... DO NOT go below 2.7v or above 4.3v, there is a reason these batteries are known as "rechargeable C-4"

There is no way you're going 35+ on 48v... Not gonna happen UNLESS you're running a 50a cotroller..
I know it takes 800w easily to get to 25mph, prolly 1200w to go 30mph and 2000w+ to go 35mph... (Wind resistance becomes a BlTCH at those speeds)
48v 20a controller will get to to 25, 30a to get ya 30mph and 50a for 35+.
Ping battery of 30Ah MIGHT get ya the speed,but NOT the distance..
LiPo will get you the speed and distance, but you're gonna need 12s-14s / 40ah of it...

The battery ALONE is gonna cost you $1000, forget about the bike, motor, controller, etc.

Thud said:

Stingray,
you can build an e-bike for reasonable. Batteries are the #1 money sucker on these projects...& ultimatly where all the performance lies.

A dirct drive hub motor can be overvolted easy enough to go well past 35mph. (not that i recomend that).

there is more info at endless sphere about every aspect of building an awsome e-bike. Lots of stuff in the sales section & a world class education to be had. the guys are all helpfull for the most part.

I would recomend a cell man geared hub ($150 i think) you can lace a wheel yourself (or can you?) a simple controller from the e-crazy man on e-bay. & a battery form a man called ping. (comes with a charger & a battery managment system)

if you can crimp the conectors onto your wires....you'll be rolling silent & under the radar for a long time.

I can get more specific if you have questions. I don't build with the hub motors myself, but they are the simplest way to build an assisted bike.
T

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This is the man that has 1000% more knowledge about E bikes than I do but I still think it's possable to do what he wants for $1000 bucks.

Maybe Thud will jump in on this and enlighten us all!!

POPS

SANGESF said:

There is no way you're going 35+ on 48v... Not gonna happen UNLESS you're running a 50a cotroller..
I know it takes 800w easily to get to 25mph, prolly 1200w to go 30mph and 2000w+ to go 35mph... (Wind resistance becomes a BlTCH at those speeds)
48v 20a controller will get to to 25, 30a to get ya 30mph and 50a for 35+.
Ping battery of 30Ah MIGHT get ya the speed,but NOT the distance..
LiPo will get you the speed and distance, but you're gonna need 12s-14s / 40ah of it...

The battery ALONE is gonna cost you $1000, forget about the bike, motor, controller, etc.

Click to expand...

Go to www.cycloneTw.com
Look at their 1 chain wheel kits.
The 960 watt @ 36 volts will do 40 MPH !
The cost of that kit is $399 US.

That leaves $600 to play with.
With a $139 buck Canadian tire Full suspension 26'' moutain Bike
you can get there for $1000
Go to endless Sphere and look at used stuff for sale.
There is always Batts. for sale at a real good deal
when people are up grading and they are like new.
They always list the spec's.

Another good read is go to www.cycloneUSA.com
Go to performance and read his stats on the 500 watt Li -ion on 26'' moutain bike which has way less power than LiPo and the 960 watt!

POPS

That kit is actually $500 including shipping AND 36v 30a is only gonna get you 25mph.. Trust me on this.
Forget the bike for a moment...
You ain't gonna get a DECENT battery for $500 that will handle 30+ amps and 30+ miles (which is even less than the OPs wants..)

Especially at 36v, you will need 50a+ to get up to 35mph and you would need 50AH+ to go te 35 miles...
You won't get it for under $1000 even with LiPo...
You need balance charger ($150+ for a decent one), huge PSU ($100) and a safe place to charge... So you're looking at $250 just in charging system.

SANGESF said:

That kit is actually $500 including shipping AND 36v 30a is only gonna get you 25mph.. Trust me on this.
Forget the bike for a moment...
You ain't gonna get a DECENT battery for $500 that will handle 30+ amps and 30+ miles (which is even less than the OPs wants..)

Especially at 36v, you will need 50a+ to get up to 35mph and you would need 50AH+ to go te 35 miles...
You won't get it for under $1000 even with LiPo...
You need balance charger ($150+ for a decent one), huge PSU ($100) and a safe place to charge... So you're looking at $250 just in charging system.

Click to expand...

I agree 100% with SANGESF on this Im just being a realist here (and Im not even factoring in the newb factor which inevitably cost $$ too). I feel like if your not honest about the cost of these hobbies upfront you are setting somebody up for failure.

The bottom line is that it is going to take well thought-out and expensive battery/motor selection to achieve this performance. There is nothing wrong with admitting this, but $1000 just isnt realistic.

SANGESF said:

That kit is actually $500 including shipping AND 36v 30a is only gonna get you 25mph.. Trust me on this.
Forget the bike for a moment...
You ain't gonna get a DECENT battery for $500 that will handle 30+ amps and 30+ miles (which is even less than the OPs wants..)

Especially at 36v, you will need 50a+ to get up to 35mph and you would need 50AH+ to go te 35 miles...
You won't get it for under $1000 even with LiPo...
You need balance charger ($150+ for a decent one), huge PSU ($100) and a safe place to charge... So you're looking at $250 just in charging system.

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Well I disagree with you as well as the stats on the cyclone site.
I put a 500 watt cyclone on a schwinn chopper for my wife as
she is only 5' 3'' tall and even with me on that bike at 185lb. it will go 50KPH.
on the flats. Even faster with my wife.

You know guys, this used to be a place where every one WAS frendly and NOT hostile to other members.

Now it seems as though people jump down your throut (and others tend to jump on the band wagon) when they disagree!!

Every one seems to want to argue and even disagree with posted figures from a dealer thats been in business for years!

Then comes the insults!!!

Can't we just all play nice.

POPS

I have not insulted anyone...
But I DO know that 500w is not going to get you 50kph(30mph) especially on a Schwinn Chopper..
(I've owned 4 of them)
With ME on the bike (155lbs), it takes 800w+ (My last recorded trip showed 828w with a 48v lifepo4 battery and 48v 17a controller) just to hit 25mph(42kph)..
Now it may be rated at 500w continuous, but that doesn't mean, if you slap a controller on it with a high enough amp push, that you can't go past that mark...
At 36v 25a(23a) rated controller, you would hit the 25mph mark... And then wind resistance really starts kicking in..

P.S. You really believe the stats from a manufacturer that's trying to sell you something? LOL.. Ok, if that's the case, I'm a dealer for 20" rear wheel/motor combinations.. The specs are 180w and you can go 20mph on 24v lead acid..
How many would you like to buy from me.

POPS said:

Well I disagree with you as well as the stats on the cyclone site.
I put a 500 watt cyclone on a schwinn chopper for my wife as
she is only 5' 3'' tall and even with me on that bike at 185lb. it will go 50KPH.
on the flats. Even faster with my wife.

You know guys, this used to be a place where every one WAS frendly and NOT hostile to other members.

Now it seems as though people jump down your throut (and others tend to jump on the band wagon) when they disagree!!

Every one seems to want to argue and even disagree with posted figures from a dealer thats been in business for years!

Then comes the insults!!!

Can't we just all play nice.

POPS

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Not one person here has insulted you in this thread. Please tell me you've got thicker skin than that?

Just answer me one question, what would it take to convince you your wrong????? Who would have to tell you your mistaken for you to admit your got a little over your head in claiming 35/35/250lbs?

Should I copy and paste this thread over on ES and let other electric riders tell you your not doing 35mph+ for 35 mies @ 250lbs+ for under $1k?

Well he said 50kph(30mph) not 60kph(35mph). (There IS a slight difference)..
I'm sure the bike will do 50kph but not at 36v 15a (500w)..
On that same bike with just me and my 36v 20a (720w) I can get up to 23mph (40kph).
In order to get it to 50kph(30mph) it took me a 36v 30a controller (~1100w), BUT there is NO WAY, to keep that speed for any length of time, unless you have the WH and the C-Rate to do just that and that's not cheap. Unless you get stuff for 1/2 price..

36v 30a is gonna take you about 1200w (realistically) to keep that speed to ride for an hour (30m/50km) that's 1200wh that's a 36v 35ah battery at the very least..

So Let's calculate 36v 35Ah / 36v 30A controller / motor kit capabilities to match that ability to keep that speed/time wanted for just 30mph/50kph for 30m/50km..

Figure JUST for the motor kit a minimum of $400 and that's being way generous.
(Probably will only last 6 months, but we didn't specify how long it has to last...)
The battery is gonna cost you $600 in LiPo. So we are at $1000, BUT we haven't figured in the power supply, the balance charger.. Figure $200(low ball price) for decent ones of those, we are at $1200 (using LiPo) and I didn't add some kind of monitoring during ride, but I digress..
Using lifepo4 (with charger and BMS), I found a 36v 35Ah on eBay for $650, so again close to $1000.
Add a $100 for bike, torque arms, watt meter..
Now still about $1150 for 30mph for 30m (50kph/50km)...

Try going 35m/35mph and you're looking at another $100-$200 in battery, $100-200 in motor, $100 more for a better bicycle.

Now we're at $1600 and we didn't even include shipping.
(Just in case, you just happen to live next to a place that can pick these things up locally..)

Now if you went the "retail" route (Here in USA), you're looking at double or triple those prices..

Being that he is in a non hilly area, why not the MAC 6T?? On 12s LiPo I am getting around 35 with no pedaling with a max wattage of 1500-1600---about 1200 cruise---. You can get a Cell Man kit for like 400ish shipped, slow boat, and then a pile of 12s lipo for 20AH at around 500ish shipped, and then build your own other stuff like torque arms and such and you should be there or VERY close.... Especially if you got anything on sale..

(EDIT): I just estimated the mileage on flat ground using my ride to work as a basis, which I do with 6.5ish AH and go at least 30 average, maybe more since I do pedal a little. The difference is I have 3-4 miles of 4% grade in that, so I would guess flat ground you could do it with about the same AH but at the faster speed, so you would need about 21AH useable to complete it, so safely I would get at least 25AH of 12s lipo for the MAC... You should still get real close to you goal with this...

Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!
Email me @ [email protected]
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

This is from Endless Sphere where I asked the same question.

POPS

Ok, if you read it thoroughly, you will see all of that pretty much goes with what I was saying...

Now, mind you, the person that replied, didn't give you some other info..
Like...
1.) You need at LEAST 30Ah (of 12s LiPo) 20-25ah will NOT do it on 12s LiPo and that's only 43.2v, would HAVE to be 48v, again, more money. (cellmans a123's are great, but a little costlier)

2.) He's using a recumbent bicycle.. And a light one at that.. Will cost you a LOT more than $130...

3.) Since it's a recumbent, wind resistance is a LOT better (re:much less of a factor) than on a regular upright bike. Even a basic bent is gonna be more than $130.