youtube video of the gas/electric

GoldenMotor.com

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
Very clever! I like it. So, legally it is an electric powered bike. And I'm guessing that if you should see police or for some other reason want to run silent, you can kill the gas engine and run off the batteries for a bit, is that right? Sneaky!!! It seems to me that you have nicely circumvented the law and greatly extended the range of an ebike. Ha!
SB
 

diceman2004

New Member
Aug 26, 2009
564
2
0
Kitchener , Ontario
thats a nice little project , i think you should be able to get that muffler even quieter .
if you aren,t too concerned with the size and shape , it shouldn,t be too hard to do .
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
Professor,
I just watched your video again and have been thinking about your clever setup. I wonder if it would be a legal way around the gas engine prohibition in much of Canada since the gas engine is not technically driving the bike, the electric one is. Just a thought. I mean if you did get stopped by a cop, I wonder what a judge would say if it went to court. Interesting.
If you would be so kind, would you please post pictures detailing how your engine is setup, how the alternator is affixed, the belt (I'm guessing belt) connection between the two, and the electronics. I have a pancake motor(motor is the wheel hub) and controller from Goldenmotor (36 volt) which I fooled with several years ago. Didn't like it due to the short range of the batteries and their weight which made the bike really heavy for an old guy. FastEddy's sidecar project has gotten me thinking about a pusher sidecar where the electric wheel would be on the sidecar. The sidecar then would carry the batteries and with your setup could also carry an alternator powered by a Greyhound engine. There would plenty of room for everything, weight would not be an issue. Range would be only limited by the size of the gas tank and a quieter muffler could be set up. I'm wondering, too, if the life cycle of lead acid batteries would be extended greatly by the alternator doing the work and the batteries being more backup. It's an intriguing idea.
SB
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,440
4,877
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British Columbia Canada
Professor, you bike looks even better close up. What I like about it is the fact it looks like someone in 1908 had wanted a motorcycle and bought the mail order parts and built it and then a hundred years later someone found it and used it again.


When I was messing around with old cars there was always someone who had the rare, fully restored, don't cars what it costs, car that they would start two or three times a day so 20 people could hear it run and then there was the guy in the unrestored car that had a crowd around him and the car all day and when he drove it a bunch of people followed him like the pied piper.

Your bike reminds me of the unrestored car. A true joy to see.

Steve.
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,440
4,877
113
British Columbia Canada
My idea runs on the same thought. Gas motor driven generators are not legal here on a motor bike and may not be legal even if not hooked up to the battery and just being carried to use later.
Just spent a lot of time with my insurance agent about what can and can't be done with a motor on a motorized bike. Seems in Canada you can't even have a gas motor on a bicycle as a dummy prop. Hooked up or other wise. If you do it is a moped with a whole lot of different laws

Had thought that a honda generator, even though they are expensive, they are quiet and small and could be put in the back of a sidecar or the sidecar could be a delivery style box with a compartment under it that houses a generator set up with the batteries above it in a compartment.
Nice, discrete louvered panel in the front and back with a fan to cool it and a slide out tray to start it. A small kill switch on the side of the box so that you can stop the generator set if you need to.

This could also be set up on a trike with a box on the back.

Remember there is absolutely nothing illegal in this world, until they catch you doing it.

Steve.
 

professor

New Member
Oct 14, 2009
500
1
0
Buffalo ny area
Thanks for the comments guys.

Diceman- the muffler system is super quiet, i can put a hand over the outlet and the tone barely changes, I think the sound actually comes off the motor itself- ringing out of the block and head.

Silverbear,I don't know about Canada, but when the new legislation gets signed by our beleaguered governor, it would be legal because the law doesn't exclude gas generation.
Details- yes, it will motivate on battery power for a bit but I think cruise rpm will need to be raised to send more juice into the batteries- they are not lively after a run. I need to rev the gas engine for hills and acceleration.

This alternator has no regulation, it is from an 86 mustang with an external regulator that is not used on the bike, however an older Delco can be modded by wiring out the regulator and works just as well. This engine is about tapped out at 36 or 37 volts driving with a one to one ratio ( probably spinning around 3 grand).
A bigger engine could use less rpm but with a bigger drive pulley and do your needed voltage too.

Electronics (not my favorite thing) - TNC scooter supplied the 500 w controller and throttle. batteries are fed up to 35 volts, (limited by the throttle stop on the HF) (depending on gas throttle setting)- I try to dial back on the throttle at cruise speed to around 28 or 29 volts so I don't burn up anything.
Accelerating or hills suck up power, so even at full rpm, the volts stay just over 26 then.
I do help the e-motor by pedaling usually. I go about 2x as fast as my normal pedal bike and still get some exercise, besides, it LOOKS like I am on a bike as I pedal.

Back when I was experimenting, I wanted to not use a controller at all and just modulate e-motor via engine rpm but I could not find a means to charge the needed 12 v battery which sends juice to the field circuit ( the voltage would go up to 50+ and I could not find a regulator which would do it), so I abandoned that mode.
This bike's batteries are wired in series to give 24v but I was able to tap off one battery to send 12 volts to the alternator field. Same with the lights and horn.

I did try a 24v regulator inside a Delco 10SI, had it wired wrong and burned it up while testing voltage and rpm, it did propel me down the road prior to wrecking it- so I know a 24 volt regulated Delco works.
The alternator output (unbeknown to me) must be directly connected to a battery (or batteries) or it will apparently self- destruct the internal regulator, I sent for another, I think I wrecked that one connecting the wrong wire, sent for another -bench tested it first and the reg. was a dud.
At that point, I thought, dump the regulator altogether and limit volts with the engine rpm like before- only use the controller and it works.
I think you may get torque steer if you motorize an offset rear wheel, might mot be much though. Lots of room in a sidecar though.
If gas engines were legal here I would dump this e-stuff in a heartbeart- this whole deal is a "Mother of necessity" creation, but I do like to tinker, so I do not mind. The set-up is NOT efficient though, the gas engine seems to be carrying a load most of the time -a pure gas set-up would probably get 3x the mileage. We do what we have to. I can live with it.
If there is anything else you are curious about let me know.
 

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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
Thank you so much for your detailed response. I very much admire and appreciate what you have done. I never in a million years could have. You've given me much to think about and I'm sure I will have questions once I have digested more. I can see that with my pancake motor hub, that part of the system would be simpler. And I have three twelve volt batteries, 36 volt controller and throttle. I am no electrician, however, so it takes me longer to understand what is essentially invisible... electrical energy. I can also envision a simpler setup with a kiddie trailer housing batteries, alternator and Greyhound engine, feeding juice to the pancake hub motor on the front wheel of the bicycle... or from a sidecar, but with the motor on the front wheel of the bike. That would eliminate the possibility of torque steer, something I know nothing about. I bet you get a lot of looks and questions.
SB
 

K.i.p

New Member
Nov 8, 2009
339
1
0
CNY
Very interesting, I really enjoyed the video and salute your inventiveness. It actually looks pretty nice too! Kudos.