Flying motorized bicycles

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Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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up north now
Re: Flying MBs

Dan, you won't need any special set up.

Just put on the back pack paraglider, fire it up, and sit on the bike. The pucker factor should take care of any bicycle to paraglider mounting concerns.
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Re: Flying MBs

Dan, you won't need any special set up.

Just put on the back pack paraglider, fire it up, and sit on the bike. The pucker factor should take care of any bicycle to paraglider mounting concerns.
rotfl, That's what I forgot in the equation! the pucker factor!! Will save weight.

I will have the last laugh and actually do this.

If I don't, and die a horrible, screaming, flaming, falling back to earth death, I won't hear you guys!

nanananana

Wut?
 
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TwoWalks

New Member
Jul 13, 2008
56
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Sonora Ca.
Re: Flying MBs

Twowalks, yes, like that but what I am working on. The bike will be the platform. Not a connivance for flight gear, but the flight capible unit.
Sorry it took so long to get back. The whole unit is the flying platform. In flight you are still sitting on the bike.
 

TwoWalks

New Member
Jul 13, 2008
56
0
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Sonora Ca.
Re: Flying MBs

LOL, I just joined a forum of PPC folks who fly these things. They love the concept but think a MB will not work. and a few are wanting to buy chinagurls. lol

Its lonely at the bottom
Dan which forum did you join? I belong to 90% of them (^)
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Re: Flying MBs

Howdie 2Walks, PPC.org, but a chute might not be the way to go. I am thinking hang glider wings. I really love the thought of this. How cool would it be! I live right next to a large river. So has evolved into a Flying boat MB. (has to be a mofo joke acronym in there some where, but I got nuton)

I was told I would need a sport pilot license (and a check up, from the neck up) I haven't found any classes in Hartford county yet. I am thinking I need to learn far more b4 building one. Can't have folks laughing at my smoking remains. Unless I was doing some thing really cool, snork.

Is really not a new idea, but firstly being a bike and ground transportation seems to be some what unique.

Like this with more bike and better flotation; YouTube - Krucker Explorer L103 amphibious trike flying boat

I really have no clue on this, but like MBs, folks are great with helping with crazy ideas. Side note; some of those ready made flying boats retail for 40K!
 
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jacliny

New Member
Oct 20, 2008
63
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Ridge,New York
Re: Flying MBs

Dan < I'm with you on this one! we could fly back and forth across the sound! Even a little sightseeing tour around the Statue of Liberty! (should be in range dont ya think?)
then after we crash and burn we'll be in the history books! Its always been my dream to fly( anyway i can). And making history is just an added bonus, our great great grandchildren will be famous in school because of what we did! lol
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Re: Flying MBs

Dan < I'm with you on this one! we could fly back and forth across the sound! Even a little sightseeing tour around the Statue of Liberty! (should be in range dont ya think?)
then after we crash and burn we'll be in the history books! Its always been my dream to fly( anyway i can). And making history is just an added bonus, our great great grandchildren will be famous in school because of what we did! lol
Awesome, it really would be a blast, eh? Buzz over the sound, land then ride to where ever! The view of the city and the Sound from the air!! Thing would have great cargo capacity as a bike and boat. Hang glider wings fold well. There are a bunch of vids on youtube of landings with out motor, so would be pretty safe I think. Especially over watter as a landing field. (hehe, I am having nightmares about power lines)

I know this is way out of the box, but don't want to just be in a bigger box. It can be done, I think.

...And my pig, dog capitalist side is screaming; "marketing opportunity!"
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Moosylvania
Re: Flying MBs

LOL! kewl Jacliny! (and thank you!!) One of the problems (I am told, read to have heard) is that "unsticking" or breaking the suction of the water in a water born take off is difficult and requires much power. I am thinking the wheel mounts have blades that work as hydrofoils to get the boat up and out. Even as just an air boat it would greatly enhance efficiency. The wheel mounts will have to be fabricated any way and there is not much to them. Or just a truss hydrofoil in the rear and a hydrofoil integrated with front forks surrounding the front wheel.


The digrams are easy to understand. The math is well beyond me, but will just go with it as a functional truth.
Source;Google Image Result for http://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/hydrofoil/hydrofoil-1.gif FUNCTIONAL REQUIREMENT: Lift the boat’s hull outside the water.

DESIGN PARAMETER: Hydrofoil (It is a foil or wing under water used to lift the boat’s hull until it is totally outside the water.)

GEOMETRY/STRUCTURE:


Detail of Hydrofoil Geometry
EXPLANATION OF HOW IT WORKS/ IS USED:

1. At low speeds the hull (body of ship) sits in the water and the hydrofoils are totally submerged in the water.

2. As the boat’s speed increases, the hydrofoils create lift.

3. At a certain speed, the lift produced by the hydrofoils equals the sum of of the boat and cargo weights. Therefore the hull comes out of the water.

4. Instead of having an increase in drag with increasing speed because the hull is lifted out of the water (contrary to what happens in traditional boats due to pressure drag), the hydrofoils provide a more efficient way of cruising. Decreasing the drag contributes to the better use of the power needed for the movement of the boat.

DOMINANT PHYSICS:

How is the lift produced - Fluid Dynamics.

For the purpose of this project two explanations will be presented in a general and basic way. These theories are the application of Bernoulli’s Equation and Euler’s Equation for Streamline Curvature Effect.

Bernoulli’s Equation: Po = P1 + ½rv1² + rgy1 = P2 + ½rv2² + rgy2

Variables Units
Po Stagnation Pressure [Pa] or [lbf/ft2]
P Pressure [Pa] or [lbf/ft2]
r Density [kg/m3] or [lbf/ft3]
V Velocity [m/s] or [ft/s]
g Gravitational Constant [m/s2] or [ft/s2]
y Height [m] or [ft]

Detail of Hydrofoil: a) Pressure Profile b) Momentum Transfer c) Circulation d) Streamlines
This equation applies to flows along a stream line which can be modeled as: inviscid, incompressible, steady, irrotational and for which the body forces are conservative. Also the difference on the height of the foil (the distance from the bottom section to the upper one) is small enough so that the difference rgy2 - rgy1 is negligible compared to the difference of the rest of the terms. What is left is that the pressure plus one half the density times the velocity squared equals a constant (the stagnation pressure).

As the speed along these streamlines increases,the pressure drops (this will become important shortly). The fluid that moves over the upper surface of the foil moves faster than the fluid on the bottom. This is due in part to visous effects which lead to formation of vertices at the end of the foil. In order to conserve angular momentum caused by the counter-clockwise rotation of the vortices, there has to be an equal but opposite momentum exchange to the vortex at the trailing edge of the foil. This leads to circulation of the fluid around the foil. The vector summation of the velocities results on a higher speed on the top surface and a lower speed on the bottom surface. Applying this to Bernoulli’s it is observed that, as the foil cuts through fluid, the change in velocity produces the pressure drop needed for the lift. As it is presented in the diagram, the resulting or net force (force= (pressure)(area)) is upward.

This explanation can be enriched with the Principle of Conservation of Momentum. (Momentum = (mass)(velocity)) If the velocity of a particle with an initial momentum is increased, then there is a reactant momentum equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to the difference of the momentums. (See diagram).(Mi = Mf + DM)

Euler’s Equation: d(p+rgy)/dn = rv²/R

Variables Units
P Pressure [Pa] or [lbf/ft2]
r Density [kg/m3] or [lbf/ft3]
V Velocity [m/s] or [ft/s]
g Gravitational Constant [m/s2] or [ft/s2]
y Height [m] or [ft]
n Vector in Radial Direction ---
R Radius of Curvature of Streamline [m] or [ft]

Detail of Pressure At Points Over An Airfoil
Here again, the term referring to the height is assumed negligible compared to the other terms in the equation. This equation says that as you go further from the center of the radius of curvature of a streamline, the pressure on the streamlines increases. The upper surface of the foil is closer to the center of curvature of the streamlines, therefore there will be a lower pressure than the ambient pressure above the foil. The difference between the pressure on the top surface and the ambient pressure at the bottom surface will produce a net pressure that will cause the lift.(See diagram.)

Angle of Attack:


Angle of Attack
As it has been presented, lift comes from the dynamics of the fluid in the area surrounding the foil. But the lift can be optimized by positioning the hydrofoil at an angle (relative to the incoming fluid flow) called the angle of attack (See diagram). The goal is to optimize the lift to drag ratio. This ratio depends on the shape of the foil, which in this case is considered to be a thin foil. With a small angle of attack, the lift increases rapidly while the drag increases at a small rate. After an angle of ~10° the lift increases slowly until ~15° where it reaches a maximum. After ~15° stall can set in. When the angle of attack is 3° to 4° the ratio of lift:drag is at it’s maximum. So the foil is more efficient at those angles (3°and 4°) with lift to drag ratios of ~ 20 to 25:1

LIMITING PHYSICS:


Detail of Hydrofoil Geometry
At first, people can think that stalling is likely to be a problem in hydrofoils as it is in airfoils, but surprisingly it is not. A steep angle of attack is not needed in the design of the hydrofoil. On the contrary, small angles of attack are used on hydrofoils to optimize the lift to drag ratio as explained before.

What is a primary concern is the design of the foil, the struts/supports, and their positioning. All these features have to be taken in consideration. So the features are designed to produce a minimum speed that will lift the boat of certain weight and keep it foilborne.

One problem that a hydrofoil craft can experience is the height of the waves being greater than the struts. Also, if the craft is traveling faster than the waves, the foils could break to the surface and outside of the water, resulting in a loss of lift and a negative angle of attack when the foil dives into the next wave, making the craft crash into the sea. Engineers have designed hydrofoils to minimize these limitations and better the ship’s performance.

PLOTS/GRAPHS/TABLES:

None Submitted

SOME HYDROFOILS AND THEIR USE:

Hydrofoils have become very popular. They are used in various kind of sea traveling, from military use to watersports. The high speed, smooth cruise and better turns delivered by hydrofoils have been used in military ships. Sailing has also adopted the hydrofoils to gain more speed. They enable new inventions that can satisfy people’s desire to challenge danger, like the sky ski. It is a water ski with a hydrofoil attached which permits people to fly above the water surface. Every day more hydrofoils are used, and in the future, they may be the dominate method of sea traveling.

REFERENCES/MORE INFORMATION:

See also on this site: Airfoil, Sailboats

Alexander, Alan, James Grogono, and Donald Nigg; Hydrofoil Sailing. Juanita Kalerghi: London, 1972.

Bertin, John and Michael Smith; Aerodynamics for Engineers, Third Ediotion. Prentice Hall: New Jersey, 1998.

Hook, Cristopher and A.C. Kermode; Hydrofoils. Pitman Paperbags: London, 1967.

The International Hydrofoil Society’s Web Page: http://www.erols.com/foiler/index.html
 
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Ilikeabikea

Active Member
Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Flying MBs

If it would meet the criteria of a part 103 ultralight you wouldn't even need a sport license. Just hop on and fly. I would recommend learning to fly before you attempt to fly the thing. I've never landed on water but I've been told it is harder to land on that terra firma. And if you do a weight shift Rogalla wing you'll need to learn in a weight shift. The controls are exactly backwards from traditional aircraft. I really want to see you build it. I think it would be a blast. My only problem flying a weight shift would be I've always flown traditional 3 axis control. In an emergency I would do exactly the opposite of what I should've done.I wanna see the pictures as you build it...............
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Moosylvania
Re: Flying MBs

If it would meet the criteria of a part 103 ultralight you wouldn't even need a sport license. Just hop on and fly. I would recommend learning to fly before you attempt to fly the thing. I've never landed on water but I've been told it is harder to land on that terra firma. And if you do a weight shift Rogalla wing you'll need to learn in a weight shift. The controls are exactly backwards from traditional aircraft. I really want to see you build it. I think it would be a blast. My only problem flying a weight shift would be I've always flown traditional 3 axis control. In an emergency I would do exactly the opposite of what I should've done.I wanna see the pictures as you build it...............
Way cool ILikea! Thanks. I was hoping folks who know ultralights would offer their expertise. I have a fairly good grasp of hydro dynamics, but not a bit of experience with aerodynamics. Putting them on and to the same craft is going to be interesting.

When I first thought of this, I was going to just try and build an RC model and try to find out what I didn't know. But after seeing a few vids of "oh shizzits" I decided I would take lessons first and big time thank you for reinforcing that.

For economies's sake, the boat will at first be built as a MB 2 wheeled trailer/skiff with a rear facing prop and engine. (Is to be part of a floating hot dog cart biz) then I plan to add a front wheel so it can be a self (via prop) propelled trike. Then after learning and taking flight lessons, add a wing.

Big time, a work in progress, me and the craft. Any advice is more then welcomed.

This is fun build. Remember the excitement of the first MB? This for me is like that X27, snork. (^)
 
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Ilikeabikea

Active Member
Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Flying MBs

Here's some of the part 103 criteria



If powered:

(1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, excluding floats and safety devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic situation;
(2) Has a fuel capacity not exceeding 5 U.S. gallons;
(3) Is not capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight; and (4) Has a power-off stall speed which does not exceed 24 knots calibrated airspeed.
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
12,765
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Moosylvania
Re: Flying MBs

Fantastic! Gives me a guideline. As of now and what I know I need, I am well under the limits.
FAR Part 103
Legal is fun,

254 LBS is not impossible.... Styrofoam pontoons with out rigger rear wheels, or an actual hull? I am just pondering out loud/typing.
 
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Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
12,765
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Moosylvania
Re: Flying MBs

OH!!! so I could admeasure the hull? I read it as only if deployed in a catastrophic event. Not as intrinsic to the craft. Either way, it works. If the hull will not count, I can use a big butt engine! hehe, more power. (then I could use a big butt hull.....)