New Build (raw engine)

Egor · Dec 19, 2008

I started a new build for a friend, (I love to build these things) using a cruiser frame so the motor needs a front mount. I have to invent one! I will keep you posted on the build. I am trying to get the owner to join our group and follow along. Have fun, Dave

PS: A few pics. Do you think the motor mount will work?

Creative Engineering · Dec 19, 2008

Egor,

That's not going to fly! Danger Will Robinson.

The concept could be made to work...I'm going to do up something in CAD real quick so that you can buy off-the-shelf items to make this work. Give me an hour and i'll post back.

Jim

Creative Engineering · Dec 19, 2008

Egor,

This will work!

Form the bracket as shown...you can use a piece of pipe that is close to the frame size as a mandrel.

I think you can get automotive type muffler clamps as small as 1 1/4"...If not use a cable clamp, Home depot etc. has them.

You'll have to fuss around with it a bit to get it just right, but it will be strong.

Don't worry about forming it perfectly to the frame, just get it close. The clamps will draw it up the rest of the way.

You can use rubber sheet, home depot, between the bracket and frame if you need to correct the spacing.

Have fun,

Jim

Creative Engineering · Dec 19, 2008

P.S. while you're at the hardware store, get 2 M6 X 1.0 grade 8 allens to mount the engine.

Jim

hill climber · Dec 19, 2008

jim,
wish i lived i florida, i could haang out wit you all the time. great idea, and you could teach a guy a few things. good to have you here.

Egor · Dec 19, 2008

I love CAD. Thanks for the help. I am trying an experiment to see if I can isolate the vibrations transmitted into the frame, so far the mount is solid. I got the idea from my Whizzer, I will keep you posted. Have fun Dave

TexasDav · Dec 19, 2008

Nice drawing! Good idea, I wish I had asked you before I made mine out of epoxy, It works but not as well as your idea would have.

MyPC8MyBrain · Dec 19, 2008

I did something similar to that mount, only I popped in a couple 1/4 20 nutserts into the frame instead of using the water bottle mounts. Pretty solid, but then again I used 1/8 steel stock and bolted to the frame about 1"-2" above the motor mount.

I like those nutserts. They work for a lot of things and are pretty cheap. My frame may snap in half from drilling holes, but I don't think so. I've got several hundred miles on this one with no sign of fatigue.

ebmvegan · Dec 19, 2008

Jim,
Your illustration will help many. Thank you.

Creative Engineering · Dec 19, 2008

Egor said:
I love CAD. Thanks for the help. I am trying an experiment to see if I can isolate the vibrations transmitted into the frame, so far the mount is solid. I got the idea from my Whizzer, I will keep you posted. Have fun Dave

What is that white material? It's hard to tell for sure from the photos but it loks like 18Ga. no more than 16 that has been fastened to the frame with self tapping screws?

I've got to know how this will reduce vibration if the rear is mounted firmly to the frame?

I realize you have a Whizzer to use as an engineering comparison, but I'm not getting it. I couldn't find good enough pictures of the Whizzer set-up to say for sure, but it looks thier front mount floats?

Jim

Egor · Dec 19, 2008

Jim - You are right the front is floating on the whizzer. My Idea is that I use material that will isolate the vibration to a degree. This concept also gives stability in that the engine has no ability to be pulled to the side, as I have extended the leverage point out. On the Schwinn I have the mount straight to the frame and with the extended mount I think it excentuates the vibration, as that bike is the worst. I have a Mood Doggie and it has the smallest frame and it also has the least vibration, (could be the engine) but the engine is also in the smallest frame (captured) as it were. I will let you know how it works. I is heavy aluminum, I used the bottle mount on the top and a aircraft SS pop rivet at the bottom. Have fun, and Thanks. Dave .fly

Creative Engineering · Dec 19, 2008

Egor said:
Jim - You are right the front is floating on the whizzer. My Idea is that I use material that will isolate the vibration to a degree. This concept also gives stability in that the engine has no ability to be pulled to the side, as I have extended the leverage point out. On the Schwinn I have the mount straight to the frame and with the extended mount I think it excentuates the vibration, as that bike is the worst. I have a Mood Doggie and it has the smallest frame and it also has the least vibration, (could be the engine) but the engine is also in the smallest frame (captured) as it were. I will let you know how it works. I is heavy aluminum, I used the bottle mount on the top and a aircraft SS pop rivet at the bottom. Have fun, and Thanks. Dave

Dave,

It may work out fine! Nothing ventured, nothing gained...You oviously have enough sense to keep track of your experiment, so go for it!

Jim

FileStyle · Dec 19, 2008

good dawing on the auto-cad photo Jim, I also do auto-cad for work, drawing guards for a industrial plant for their machinery. Ive been doing this work for about 8 years now and truly enjoy my work!

TexasDav · Dec 20, 2008

I have seen so much research and development on this forum that NASA would be proud. It keeps me checking in all the time to see what is up. So many brilliant minds and artful craftspeople. We have high tech, low tech, and all points in between. Works of art and engineering. Adapting engines to the impossible and overcoming the impossible. Tons of frustration, agravations, and, conniption fits and great victories and celebrations. We all join in them all, because we been there and done it. I love this forum!!

Technocyclist · Dec 20, 2008

Be careful in using aluminum. They tend to crack from vibrations...

Creative Engineering · Dec 20, 2008

filestyle1 said:
good dawing on the auto-cad photo Jim, I also do auto-cad for work, drawing guards for a industrial plant for their machinery. Ive been doing this work for about 8 years now and truly enjoy my work!

It is fun...especially when you get to see it go from the virtual to reality.

I got started using computers for doing design work in '92. Cadkey 3D wireframe with surface rendering. I was working as the head engineer at a small construction equipment company...I fought the computer thing all-the-way until I saw what an excelent tool it could be. Until then I considered them useless toys as far as a PC was concerned. ProEngineer came out in 89, but it was way out of reach, ($50,000), so I didn't even consider it an option, although at the time I really wanted to get in on it.

Jim

Creative Engineering · Dec 20, 2008

Technocyclist said:
Be careful in using aluminum. They tend to crack from vibrations...

That's what I'm figuring. If it's 5052 annealed, at a minimum of 1/8" thickness, it will probably hold up for awhile.

Jim

Egor · Dec 20, 2008

I'm not sure what the thickness is about 1/8 I will have to measure it. It is thicker than the fenders on my Bultaco, and they have cracks at the fasteners. I was thinking of making a backer at the engine, I think if I get cracks it would be in around the bolts. I have no clue what the alloy is it came from a scrap picking. I have no hard bends and so I think that should keep the stress from building up at those points. Thanks for all the help, I only got to use CAD at a machine shop I used to work for years ago. I can't imagine what it would be like now. I still love to draw and have a Drafting board in the shop. If this works I will next sandwich rubber between the surfaces like the mod to the motor mounts on my Model A Ford. I am not sure if the rubber isolates or nulls the vibration! Having fun, Dave

Egor · Dec 24, 2008

All I have left is the chain. It looks good and was easy to build. I think I will be able to start it tomorrow. The engine has a much thicker intake mount, I was going to remove it and make a new gasket but the one in there is thin so I think it will last. One problem is heat transfer, I think that is why they used the thick gasket that always blew out. I will get some pics tomorrow to show. looked down the spark plug hole and can see the exhaust is low, so I don't expect much in the way of performance, I will see if he wants to spend some money to get the porting done. Have fun, Dave

Egor · Dec 25, 2008

Well I got the bike running today, it is not impressive, at least not yet. The slide needle was at the bottom notch, so it was running as fat as it could and I am at sea level. I got it leaned out but it is still not very powerful, I know it is still breaking in so it will get better as it runs in. One thing on this kit that is a failure, the chain adjuster is a disaster. It is one of the two bolt 8mm animals. The bolt holes are too far apart and the portion that is made to go around the frame stays is so big that it will not grip, luckily it was going slow when it went into the spokes. This is I think the most dangerous event that will happen to the Happy Time bike, I can't stress this enough, you have to get this right. I am going to weld this one on the inside it will look like there is nothing different from the standard. On my Schwinn it is at the wheel so it can't get into the spokes but this one needs to be closer to the sprocket. I will get pics. Merry Christmas. Have fun, Dave

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