Maniac57 tests the HD Lightning CDI

massdrive said:

I just received my new HD Lightning CDI... I'm so excited! I think I'd be more excited if it came with instaltion instructions... maybe some kind mounting bracket too. I'll make a cool mounting bracket. I'm just sayin'... Anyway I expect it will improve performance across the board. I'll install it tomorrow and go for a test ride. My bike has a stock CDI and has always run good, but it's been running very strong since it turned 400 miles. It now has over 700 miles on it and I'm very eager to make this comparison. My bike blubbers at very low end, and falls off at the very top end. It just feels like it has more to give. I'm hoping the new CDI cures or at least helps the problem. What ever happens I'll let you all know.

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In my experience it does just as good as my stock units and looks cool having the custom part but I didnt realize any performance gains that can be seen on a tach, speedometer or felt seat of the pants, but I always say we all have a right to spend our money however we wish.

I just cant promote some things as an upgrade when my personal results show different.

Best wishes massdrive hope your bike lives a long healthy life.

Map

Hey Map, looking back at last years calendar, when you got your CDI that was when I was working with Ivan H, on the Performance CDI here on the fourm and that unit is not the same as todays model there for, the results you have are of a performance CDI. So drop me a email to MAYBE straighten mess out once and for all.
[email protected]

Huffydavidson said:

Hey Map, looking back at last years calendar, when you got your CDI that was when I was working with Ivan H, on the Performance CDI here on the fourm and that unit is not the same as todays model there for, the results you have are of a performance CDI. So drop me a email to MAYBE straighten mess out once and for all.
[email protected]

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I remember you telling me that the first CDI was a clone of the Jag and that was why it didn't allow my engine to rev like it did with a stock CDI, that is the one that went out for some reason, may have just been solder came loose or something, but you were good about it all and told me to just return it and you would send me the latest and greatest completely unlimited version, I put it on my bike and no more low rev condition, my rpm's came right back to the levels they had been which with that engine at the time had been close to mid 9000, the tach had actually registered 9400 rpm and in my opinion that is and was pretty darn good, I've never had a minutes trouble with that CDI and it is still running just fine on my bike so I can say it has been a good quality unit no doubt.

But in my case it has not added rpm capability to my engine, I cant speak for what it would do on another engine, but I figure that the odds are that I'm probably getting all I can get out of this engine with this unit, I'm gonna do some more comparison testing on this bike and I will be completely honest with my results, if I find that anything else shows a drop in performance that I can measure with what methods I have, I'll sing the praises of what I have proven to myself to work the best and honestly give report on what was the lesser performer in my particular case.

So Huffy D are you saying that you've made some design changes that make the current Lightening CDI perform better than the " latest and greatest completely unlimited" one I have now?

And to all who read this I will say that I understand that no matter how good an ignition is or anything else for that matter, overall performance will also depend on other factors and be determined by what the engine is actually capable of, some engines are not capable of doing more than X amount of rpms and can only breathe good enough to have a certain level of performance, its just a fact that the way some of us have our engines set up will allow them to rev higher and pull harder than others, I know huffy d and several others like myself have our engines set up to breathe much better than a box stock china girl, so that for sure changes the results of what we see when we make component changes to the engines.

Huffy d, please inform me of what is better about the newer cdi versus the unlimited one you had told me I have now, im curious to what has been done different and I'm sure others here would find it interesting also, and enjoy knowing.
Thanks for the offer and desire to straighten things out.

Map

Sorry map can't do this now had a death in the family, and since have to know every dam thing it was my dad. Get off my back.

Huffydavidson said:

Sorry map can't do this now had a death in the family, and since have to know every dam thing it was my dad. Get off my back.

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Sorry for your loss Daniel.

Sincerely, map

Huffydavidson said:

Sorry map can't do this now had a death in the family.

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mapbike said:

Sorry for your loss Daniel.

Sincerely, map

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My sincere condolences.

Mark

Huffydavidson reel sorry to hear about this news. Hang in there it gets better. Prayers go out to you.




Hey Map. I have always figgured the China motor is severly under aspirated. I would run a 21mm carby on any of mine. No problem at my currant high elevation either. On a stock motor for the most part. My buddy got me going on those.

When I finally got my Morini's when I had them apart for inspection. The way these motors breath is nothing like a china. With believable post I have read we got folks claiming up to 70 mph.

Map are you running anything with a nicely tamed 21mm carby? Guess what I am getting at is that a motor that cannot breath is gonna tap out at so many RPM's no matter what..



Now this stuff that Arrow racing is doing to mode these engines. I beleive their race bikes all run 21mm carbys. I read Motorbicycleracing racing qoute said it somwhere?

Anyway the way they are going about running reed valves and after market jugs here lately. That sould be some 12,000 rpm motors coming up? Now a timing curve that is gratuitous in a cdi could pay off?

In the dead of winter here when it was cold enough and I trusted the flash point on my oil. I changed the timing on my bike to get more revs. Bottom end suffered a tade and top end just kinda kept going. That got my motor pretty dang hot. Suicide to do in summer.

I got it in a sweet spot now and have no complants really.

This is tuff proving grounds man.

Goat Herder said:

Huffydavidson reel sorry to hear about this news. Hang in there it gets better. Prayers go out to you.




Hey Map. I have always figgured the China motor is severly under aspirated. I would run a 21mm carby on any of mine. No problem at my currant high elevation either. On a stock motor for the most part. My buddy got me going on those.

When I finally got my Morini's when I had them apart for inspection. The way these motors breath is nothing like a china. With believable post I have read we got folks claiming up to 70 mph.

Map are you running anything with a nicely tamed 21mm carby? Guess what I am getting at is that a motor that cannot breath is gonna tap out at so many RPM's no matter what..



Now this stuff that Arrow racing is doing to mode these engines. I beleive their race bikes all run 21mm carbys. I read Motorbicycleracing racing qoute said it somwhere?

Anyway the way they are going about running reed valves and after market jugs here lately. That sould be some 12,000 rpm motors coming up? Now a timing curve that is gratuitous in a cdi could pay off?

In the dead of winter here when it was cold enough and I trusted the flash point on my oil. I changed the timing on my bike to get more revs. Bottom end suffered a tade and top end just kinda kept going. That got my motor pretty dang hot. Suicide to do in summer.

I got it in a sweet spot now and have no complants really.

This is tuff proving grounds man.

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No I dont run larger carbs on my engines, I do beleive there are some extra rpms and possibly better acceleration to be had by running a larger carb based on the fact that it has been proven by several people, I have a 19mm carb I plan to possibly work with to see if I can get it to run on a china girl, I honestly have been pretty happy with the 9000+ rpms I have managed to get with a well tuned NT carb or the RT carbs, these have proven to give me good all around power and top speeds in the mid to upper 40's mph, I really have no desire to go any faster than that on a bicycle, but if a well tuned larger carb would give me better low to mid power that gets to top speed quicker I would for sure be happy with that, better acceleration is always a plus in my book...

Map

You will be very happy with a larger carb IMO. Tuning one? well that Delorto kicked my butt pretty good . Problem was I could never get on the maping untill I changed atomizers. That Del was a bugger for me. Got it flawless now. Well thats a broad spectrum term lol. I lied it is a little too rich in the summer here. Especially with my altitude.

Not far from perfect tho. Very live able. Don't think it is worth chasing that extra perfection. Basically the little 49cc Morini is the one I am refering to at the moment.

Had three diffrant china's here between freinds that all had 19's or 21's at one time. The bottom end power and climb through to red line was noticed on all my motors including the Morini for the better. I went from a 19 to a 21 and loved it on the M! Not untill I tamed that carby tho lol.

Just no comparison to a little 12 mm or even a 16 in my experiance.

What I did notice was you gotta tune a bigger carby tits perfect. This would mean the needle jet. slide,idle jets, atomizer fun fun. I would do it again in a heart beat!

Got a custom taper on a W7 needle thats been perfect. Chucked up the needle in a drill for that one. Ran some fine sand paper carfully folded.

That is another thing. When I started dumping more fuel and air. Fun lessons were.. My motor responded very great fully to better spark. Dare I say it? I used a simple little pulstar spark plug. Only spark plug that stays nicly self cleaned in my motors in my experiance. Especially the little 49cc Morini with a 21mm feeding. The launches out of my drive way and into the road were exeptionally better.

Only other plug that ever came close was a NGK. Puls out shines it hands down for me...

Butt that's another can of worms to yarn about lol.

massdrive said:

I just received my new HD Lightning CDI... I'm so excited! I think I'd be more excited if it came with instaltion instructions... maybe some kind mounting bracket too. I'll make a cool mounting bracket. I'm just sayin'... Anyway I expect it will improve performance across the board. I'll install it tomorrow and go for a test ride. My bike has a stock CDI and has always ran good, but it's been running very strong since it turned 400 miles. It now has over 700 miles on it and I'm very eager to make this comparison. My bike blubbers at very low end, and falls off at the very top end. It just feels like it has more to give. I'm hoping the new CDI cures or at least helps the problem. What ever happens I'll let you all know.

Click to expand...

So I did a temporary install of the Lightning CDI & coil. First impression; the wiring is very simple, however enclosed installation instructions would be a plus. Perhaps a product description too. I only had time for a short test ride and there seems to be improvement in the mid range, and just as Maniac said "those annoying little hick ups are gone", it is definitely smoother. Also the engine seems to run a quieter especially when cruising. I'll have to do some re-tuning and adjusting before I formulate an opinion. Before I do any further riding though I'll have to better secure the unit to the bike. On that subject, I have formulated an opinion. There are no clamps, brackets, screw holes, not even so much as suitable surface to mate it to the frame. Right away I'm saying what the frack is up with that? I have the skills and tools to bracket the unit securely to the bike and truth is I will enjoy doing it, but most people don't. Sooooo I guess I'll design a cool looking bracket and clamp system that most anyone can install.
The first pic is my old wiring with the isolation stripped away. The second is with the new cdi temporarily spliced in. The third is the quality insulation job I did. The forth is the spark plug after the test ride... it looks good.

massdrive said:

So I did a temporary install of the Lightning CDI & coil. First impression; the wiring is very simple, however enclosed installation instructions would be a plus. Perhaps a product description too. I only had time for a short test ride and there seems to be improvement in the mid range, and just as Maniac said "those annoying little hick ups are gone", it is definitely smoother. Also the engine seems to run a quieter especially when cruising. I'll have to do some re-tuning and adjusting before I formulate an opinion. Before I do any further riding though I'll have to better secure the unit to the bike. On that subject, I have formulated an opinion. There are no clamps, brackets, screw holes, not even so much as suitable surface to mate it to the frame. Right away I'm saying what the frack is up with that? I have the skills and tools to bracket the unit securely to the bike and truth is I will enjoy doing it, but most people don't. Sooooo I guess I'll design a cool looking bracket and clamp system that most anyone can install.
The first pic is my old wiring with the isolation stripped away. The second is with the new cdi temporarily spliced in. The third is the quality insulation job I did. The forth is the spark plug after the test ride... it looks good.

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Ok than... so I was able to take the Rattletrap out for an extended test ride with the Lightning CDI. This time I did some tuning and found some more improvement. I played with plug gap, carb, and premix. I don't have a tach., but I have no doubt that I picked up some rpm's, the engine runs smoother across the board, I have a slightly better mid range, it is easier to start especially when hot (high compression head). So with all this noticeable improvement I find it curious there is no increase in top speed. I was really hoping to get just 1 mph more to break through the 40 mph barrier. Oh well... I am satisfied with the lightning CDI it makes an enjoyable bike even more enjoyable to ride. Thank you Dan good job.

Thanks for the extra information!!!!

Bottom line sounds like some versions have a similar advance and enough spark at top rpms to have very similar top MPH on modified engines. The difference is more likely found in acceleration under load, ie getting up to top speed.

The difference is... my engine runs noticeably better with it.

I'll second the previous post. My engine also runs much better with the HD lightining cdi. My jaguar cdi came with bad (cold) solder joints in the unit that i had to dismantle and repair myself. Especially good job on the thicker insulated wires coming from the unit going to the coil. Nice touch.

I guess it just goes to show how parts work differently on different engines, the Lightening out performed the Rocket CDI on my engine but showed no difference over what the stock unit does on that same engine and actually I ran a better top speed on my last test with the stock cdi, it is possible that the cdi had nothing to do with that last run being a little faster, shrug?

Rocket cdi top speed: 48.6 mph
Lightening cdi top speed: 49.8 mph
Stock cdi unit top speed: 50.3 mph

I can honestly say that I believe any of these cdi's will meet the needs of 99.9% of the china girl engines out there whether they are stock or have just a few are many mods to them, for me its just a matter of what someone wants to spend on their bike, from my personal experince there is no doubt which route I will go on my bikes from now on, I do believe that the best bang for the buck is the stock unit and second place is the Rocket cdi since it delivered very close to the same performance on my engine as the Lightening at a considerably low cost and you still get the same larger ignition coil, unless some one is running a highly modified engine designed for max top speed the Rocket will likely do anything the Lightening will, big difference is the Lightenings pack aging shines heada and shoulders above the Rockets " pill bottle " packaging, I think this could be improved by simply painting the bottle black and using a color printed label rather than the way it is, it just has zero curb appeal, but Im thinking its performance fall somewhere between the Jag and the Lightening and I think the Lightening and the stock unit runs neck & neck, there could be a difference in acceleration on a highly modified engine but I dont honestly see there being much difference with most engines, my engine isn't what I would call highly modified but rather mildy modified since I did no work at all to the lower internals and just left the dax Gen IV lower bone stock to see what I could do with it by doing all my work on the top end with using basic carberation and a simple high flowing exhaust with no fancy pipes or chambers, I'd say 50.3 GPS verified mph on a bike with 24" tires and a 30T rear sprocket is pretty dang good, only used three after market parts on this engine, the dax RT carb a Manic shorty aluminum intake, a Puch hi hi 70cc head and other than that just port work and some crazy mods to the piston which may not actually hold up long term but helped this little girl run like a scalded ape for a little while anyway......lol....!

Map

It seems to me the likely answer to this is that some of your engines were a little over advanced? Depending on where your bottom end came from, the timing on these motors is all over the place.
My guess is that on a fairly standard motor this Cdi does make an improvement if the timing was out a little.
However on a motor that is running sweet, your timing was already pretty close.
And by giving it a little more retard your not likely to get it to run any better.
Just a gyess.

I have been reading all this, & I,m a new guy to the bike deal.But I,m not
new to two cycle racing engines.I owned a racing kart shop & built many
engines over that time.I,m retire now & thought it would be fun messing
with these little guy.

Guys I,m looking for reliable engine with decent power.My racing days are
over.40 mph on a bike is plenty fast.If I wanted a rocket I have many
KT 100s Yamaha kart engines ib my shop.But how fast does anyone really
want to run a bicycle any how.

But I have enjoyed reading this thread.Mapbike you sound like a very honest
& level headed fellow.
just my two cents, OH great form, glad to be here
Fly

Flyman said:

I have been reading all this, & I,m a new guy to the bike deal.But I,m not
new to two cycle racing engines.I owned a racing kart shop & built many
engines over that time.I,m retire now & thought it would be fun messing
with these little guy.

Guys I,m looking for reliable engine with decent power.My racing days are
over.40 mph on a bike is plenty fast.If I wanted a rocket I have many
KT 100s Yamaha kart engines ib my shop.But how fast does anyone really
want to run a bicycle any how.

But I have enjoyed reading this thread.Mapbike you sound like a very honest
& level headed fellow.
just my two cents, OH great form, glad to be here
Fly

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Welcome to the forum Flyman

Yes I do my best to give an honest answer or evaluation of things I personally try or use, doesn't mean what I experience for myself will always be what everyone else gets but I can only go by what I see with what I do.

Honestly, the stock ignitions are the way to go for me, i've tried the rest and seen no noticeable improvements once I did straight up comparison testing on the same engine, I did see a loss in top speed with the rocket CDI but it was so minimal I'd say it wouldn't be enough to worry about, I have never noticed any change in engine vibes when switching between any of the CDI units, the jaguar units "inventor" claims it will make the engine run smoother, I didn't find that to be the case and it was the worst performing set up I used.

The best bet for good performance and reliability with the little China Girl engines is to get a better balance assembly from the get go like the ones that Dax and Neil-(motorbicycleracing) sells and maybe some others now like VeniceMotorBikes etc. I replace the upper needle bearing and kake up better intake gasket and do some port cleaning first off with my engines, I also like the Puch Hi Hi 70cc head, they're priced good at treatland.tv, I like the "Fred Head" and I have a Jake head also, I like the way all of them look and because they are larger it just makes since that they will wick more heat away, they also make the engines perform better for sure in the low to mid range and if all else is done right you can expect to pic up some extra MPH on the top.

Peace, Map