6 Volt LED headlamp w/ small 6 volt motorcycle battery

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outlawbiker

Member
Mar 15, 2009
282
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Chicago NW Suburbs
thank you for your input and also by posting the schematic, i am following them very carefully. i am wondering how ever, isn't the zener diode and power resistor creating a dead short between the red and black wire? according to your diagram, i might not fully understand also how those components work.
 

Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
thank you for your input and also by posting the schematic, i am following them very carefully. i am wondering how ever, isn't the zener diode and power resistor creating a dead short between the red and black wire? according to your diagram, i might not fully understand also how those components work.
A zener diode is not the same as a recifier diode. Think of the zener diode (Z1) as a “pressure relief valve”. When the voltage (pressure) reaches 6.8v, the zener bleeds off the excess pressure through the resistor (R1). It protects the battery from overcharging. If you do not have a battery in your system, you could use just the zener regulator to protect other voltage sensitive components such as led lights.

It is not the same as a direct short. The resistor makes the voltage clamp a little “softer”. Even without the resistor, the zener would only bleed off the excess voltage. If you really did have a direct short, the battery (B1) current would cause the fuse (F1) to blow.

A 6v lead acid battery holds a fairly constant voltage in the 5.9 to 6.4 volt range. Without the zener regulator in the circuit, any excess is burned off in the battery. The battery is then acting as the only regulator. As long as the charge current is small enough compared to the battery ah rating, the lead acid battery will be OK. The zener gives added protection. Either way can work. There are always tradeoffs between simplicity and functionality.
 
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Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
thanks again... i am eager to try this out, if there are any revisions in your plans please keep us up to date. dance1 zpt
No revisions at this time. At least not for my implementation. There are at least a couple of people that have done successful implementations of the 6v negative ground charging system. That includes me. I have a little less than 500 miles of use so far. I use the brake light regularly. The headlight is only used on occasion. The battery is staying fully charged.

I’m going to have only occasional internet access for the next 4 weeks. I’ll check back in when I get back.
 

Coval_PL

New Member
Jul 28, 2009
57
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0
Gdynia/Poland
I used Scochmo's circuit and it seems to be fine. Engine works on the idle and small current goes out to aku. I' tell you after week or two about aku's condition. Thanks Scotcmo. :)
 

BrettMavriK

New Member
Oct 3, 2008
390
2
0
54
Tampa Bay, FL
Allrighty

I'm trying to get this Blue Bobber Finished....

I've been messin' with a similar 3.3v 1 watt l.e.d. set up and can't get it to work right.
I've rectified the charge, upped the battery voltage, etc. I either can't get the
brake & tail l.e.d.s to light up with the 3 watt super chip l.e.d. headlight at the
same time , but will light up independently from the headlight,
or I up the battery size from 6 volts to 9 volts and blow the headlight....

I have the magneto rectified with a Radio Shack 276-1152.
I'm in over my head when it comes to anything that's not basic
12 volt car dc, relays, diodes, etc., I admit it.
I throw up my arms and give up. I've been at it for a week with
nothing but frustration and failure.

I need something that works for this Bobber.
Something very bright, something self contained and able
to recharge on it's own. Needs a nice and small battery as well.

Scotchmo,
You seem to have stumbled onto something that works.
Could you help me put together something so I can kick this baby to life?

It will sit until it is complete....that is my mantra with this build.

The lighting is the only thing that is left.

Help!
 

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Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
Allrighty

I'm trying to get this Blue Bobber Finished....

I've been messin' with a similar 3 watt l.e.d. set up and can't get it to work right.
I've rectified the charge, upped the battery voltage, etc. I either can't get the
brake & tail l.e.d.s to light up with the 3 watt super chip l.e.d. headlight at the
same time , but will light up independently from the headlight,
or I up the battery size from 6 volts to 9 volts and blow the headlight....

I have the magneto rectified with a Radio Shack 276-1152.
I'm in over my head when it comes to anything that's not basic
12 volt car dc, relays, diodes, etc., I admit it.
I throw up my arms and give up. I've been at it for a week with
nothing but frustration and failure.

I need something that works for this Bobber.
Something very bright, something self contained and able
to recharge on it's own. Needs a nice and small battery as well.

Scotchmo,
You seem to have stumbled onto something that works.
Could you help me put together something so I can kick this baby to life?

It will sit until it is complete....that is my mantra with this build.

The lighting is the only thing that is left.

Help!
I’m back. I’m assuming that you have a 6v battery being charged by the white wire through the rectifier diode. The first thing to sort out is the charging system. How big is the battery? What kind is it? Do you have a digital voltmeter to test things? Leave your lights disconnected for now. Check your resting battery voltage with the voltmeter and write it down. Ride your bike for several miles. Check your battery voltage again. Or you can check it while reving the motor. It should be slightly higher immediately after riding or when reving the motor. If so, the charging system is working. If not, you need to find the problem. Now make sure your 6v lighting system is working. Turn on the headlight switch. Does the headlight work? Try the brake/tail lights. Do they work? If not, try reversing the polarity since most LED lights are polarity dependent. What is the operating voltage of the 3w chip LED? All components will need to be in the 6v range to work with this system.
 

BrettMavriK

New Member
Oct 3, 2008
390
2
0
54
Tampa Bay, FL
That is my problem
The headlight is a very impressive and very very bright super chip led.

Cree® X-RE Q4 Star - LED Supply.com

I do not want to have to use another led as this one projects the light worthy of my safety standards.
The brake & tail lights are 6 volt automotive. Not sure if I should wire them in a series or paralell, what size resistor to get voltage down for the Cree led, and what order of wiring in diagram form.
The battery set up currently for now are 4 AA Nimh rechargeable equaling 6 volts in a series.
I do have the white wire rectified. it puts out 6-9 volts dc on my digital volt meter depending on rpm.

Thanks, man....
 
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Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
That is my problem
The headlight is a very impressive and very very bright super chip led.

Cree® X-RE Q4 Star - LED Supply.com

I do not want to have to use another led as this one projects the light worthy of my safety standards.
The brake & tail lights are 6 volt automotive. Not sure if I should wire them in a series or paralell, what size resistor to get voltage down for the Cree led, and what order of wiring in diagram form.
The battery set up currently for now are 4 AA Nimh rechargeable equaling 6 volts in a series.
I do have the white wire rectified. it puts out 6-9 volts dc on my digital volt meter depending on rpm.

Thanks, man....
Use 6v components when possible and wire everything in parallel. I originally used a 6v automotive bulb but switched to a 6v led bulb from superbrightleds.com. The tail/stop bulb that I use is their 1157-W19-6V. They have other bulbs including single filament that you may be able to use. The creexre-w100 is rated at 3.3v and 350ma. So it should be about 9 or 10 ohms. Put a 9 or 10 ohm 2w resistor in series with it and it should be OK with the 6 volt battery. You could use a 5 or 6 ohm resistor without exceeding the maximum allowable drive current (double check the math). That would give a brighter LED but possibly reduced life. Put the series resistor/LED combo in parallel with your other lights.
 

Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
...
The battery set up currently for now are 4 AA Nimh rechargeable equaling 6 volts in a series.
I do have the white wire rectified. it puts out 6-9 volts dc on my digital volt meter depending on rpm.

Thanks, man....
Nimh batteries may be more sensitive to charging variables than lead acid batteries. Let me know how they work out.
 

Kevlarr

New Member
Jul 22, 2009
1,628
4
0
Mi
Nimh batteries are kinda sensitive to overcharging and not nearly as forgiving as NiCds are.
The charging voltage is in the range of 1.4–1.6 V/cell. A fully charged cell measures 1.35–1.4 V (unloaded), and supplies a nominal average 1.2 V/cell during discharge, down to about 1.0–1.1 V/cell (further discharge may cause permanent damage). In general, a constant-voltage charging method cannot be used for automatic charging. When fast-charging, it is advisable to charge the NiMH cells with a smart battery charger to avoid overcharging, which can damage cells and cause dangerous conditions. A NiCd charger should not be used as an automatic substitute for a NiMH charger.
 
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outlawbiker

Member
Mar 15, 2009
282
0
16
Chicago NW Suburbs
i am a noob when it comes to LED's,but it looks like they have a low amperage draw which is needed in this application. after strolling thru superbrightleds.com i am lost in a sea of LED's and dont know what to buy. does anyone have any recommendation for a super bight head light that can project a far beam like a halogen headlight on a car or motorcycle and brake light that wont rob this system of power? and is there a way to do a high beam low beam with a LED lamp and the same for tail light on brake light bright? id like to wire in a switch to my brake lever for brake lights. its not a necessity but something i was interested in doing if possible.

also im curious,parallel? series? resistors? is there anyway just to get LED headlight and brake light and wire it straight up,headlight negative=ground, positive=pos battery,then taillight on its own circuit separate from the headlight? maybe someone can walk me thru what other parts i need to set up the lighting system, the charging system schematic doesn't seem to be that hard to follow.

thanks for the help zpt
 
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BrettMavriK

New Member
Oct 3, 2008
390
2
0
54
Tampa Bay, FL
This is the best I have found yet:

Cree® XR-E Q5 Star - LED Supply.com

Great price too.
It is incredibly bright.... burn the rods right out of your eyes if you stared at it long enough.
In my headlight, which is a standard bicycle shell light, i have a 25+ foot flood circle at 30 feet
and a 2 foot spot circle. Very defined....
It has 3.3 volt draw at 1000 milliamps max. My problem is, my brake/tail light led's are 6 volt.
So I am trying to get them all to play together nicely.

I've blown to 2 Cree l.e.d.s so far, and at $10 a piece, it kinda' stings a little....
Need a little help to get it right. Series?, Parallel? Resistor? Zener? Order Of Items Before Ground, etc?

Any Electrical Guru's want to chime in?

My brake light has a cable operated switch to activate it; so if I had to do it all in a series, I guess I could use a relay to put the brake light in the loop by the cable switch, and leave it out normally from the loop to be off.

I have here what could be a very nice system if I could get it to work right...
 

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Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
This is the best I have found yet:

Cree® XR-E Q5 Star - LED Supply.com

Great price too.
It is incredibly bright.... burn the rods right out of your eyes if you stared at it long enough.
In my headlight, which is a standard bicycle shell light, i have a 25+ foot flood circle at 30 feet
and a 2 foot spot circle. Very defined....
It has 3.3 volt draw at 1000 milliamps max. My problem is, my brake/tail light led's are 6 volt.
So I am trying to get them all to play together nicely.

I've blown to 2 Cree l.e.d.s so far, and at $10 a piece, it kinda' stings a little....
Need a little help to get it right. Series?, Parallel? Resistor? Zener? Order Of Items Before Ground, etc?

Any Electrical Guru's want to chime in?

My brake light has a cable operated switch to activate it; so if I had to do it all in a series, I guess I could use a relay to put the brake light in the loop by the cable switch, and leave it out normally from the loop to be off.

I have here what could be a very nice system if I could get it to work right...
If you plan on using a 6v system; Put a 10ohm resistor in series with that particular 3.3v Cree LED or run two of the Cree 3.3v LEDs in series. If you run two in series, you will get more light and won’t be wasting energy through a resistor.
 

Scotchmo

New Member
Jun 23, 2009
217
0
0
Los Osos, California
also im curious,parallel? series? resistors? is there anyway just to get LED headlight and brake light and wire it straight up,headlight negative=ground, positive=pos battery,then taillight on its own circuit separate from the headlight? maybe someone can walk me thru what other parts i need to set up the lighting system, the charging system schematic doesn't seem to be that hard to follow.

thanks for the help zpt
That is exactly what you should do. Unless you know a little about ohms law, keep it simple and just make sure you use 6v rated components. The tail/brake is easy – use a 1157-W19-6V bulb from superbrightleds.

If you want to experiment with different voltage components, remember each individual light circuit is normally wired in parallel (negative ground, plus to battery plus). The only time you might want to put something in series is to correct for a low voltage component. Two identical 3v LEDs in series equal one 6v LED. Or you can use a resistor of equal resistance to the LED in series with the LED to allow it to run at twice its rated voltage, but that wastes some power.
 

BrettMavriK

New Member
Oct 3, 2008
390
2
0
54
Tampa Bay, FL
What about the amperage pull from the 2 Cree led's...?
It may be too much for the system. I have one Cree now, and it robs
the power to the to other 6 volt lights when everything is wired parallel.
This could be because I wired the Cree light straight up with no resistor
at 6 volts. It lived...but not for long.

I'll go get that 10 ohm resistor and try it.

Keep in mind, I have not started this bike yet.
I am testing everything off of 4 AA 1.5 vdc Nimh
rechargeable batteries in a series to get
6 volts total, with 2500mA common.

So Everything should be in parallel, even for both the 6 volt Brake & Tail led's...?
(They Consist of Four Led's in a Series Each and are Very Bright...
just not as bright as that Cree led...that thing is amazing)
 
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