Why is Tube Moving Around?

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rohmell

rohmell

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Jun 2, 2010
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I picked up a bike at a yard sale for ten bucks. It is an 18 speed with 24 inch wheels.
The tires are 24 X 2.1, some Chinese brand.
When I bought it, both front and rear inner tube valve stems were at an angle instead of straight up in the rim.
I though that maybe the previous owner messed around with the tubes and tires, so I took it all apart, cleaned the rims, strips, tubes and tires (everything was clean, anyway) and reassembled everything.
I rode it around a few blocks and noticed that the front valve stem was at an angle again.
I took the front apart and the valve stem came out of the original inner tube. OK, defective, so I replaced it with a Bell self-sealing inner tube that is designed for use with 1.75 - 2.25 tires.
Went riding a few blocks and PFFT the front tire goes flat and self-sealing goo is all over the place. I took it apart, and the valve stem came out of the inner tube (again?)
Replaced it AGAIN with a a Bell self-sealing inner tube that is designed for use with 1.75 - 2.25 tires. Went riding a few blocks and the valve stem on the front tube is at an angle AGAIN!
WTF is going on?
Stock factory wheels, stock factory tires, same brand and type of tire on both front and rear, and the rear rim is not doing the funny valve stem angle thing, although when I first got it, the rear was at an angle, too.
I use the Bell self-sealing tubes on all of my other bikes and builds in 20" and 24" sizes and have never had this problem.

This is the tube that I am using, from Wal*Mart:
Walmart.com: Bell Bicycle Self-Sealing Tube, 24": Bikes & Riding Toys
 
bairdco

bairdco

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Aug 18, 2009
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that usually happens due to low tire pressure, improper installation, or slippery rims.

when you installed the tubes, did you fill them up, deflate them, then fill them again?

you should always do that with a new tube so it seats properly. sometimes it can get twisted, pinched, or whatever during installation, but by deflating them and re-inflating them it'll make it fit inside right.

slippery rims sounds kinda stupid, but i've had bikes in the past with the same problem you have. it's the tire slipping on the rim, taking the tube with it. usually happens on the rear, though, due to the torque of pedaling (or motoring.)

you can take some sandpaper and rough up the inner rim edges, where the tire seats, and that should help stop it from slipping.

if none of that works, maybe that's why the bike was only 10 bucks...:)
 
rohmell

rohmell

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Jun 2, 2010
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I inflate the tube until it becomes donut-shaped, place it inside of the tire, and then mount both the tube and tire as a unit. Never had a pinch, and I do it that way on all of my bikes and builds without a problem, except for this one front wheel.

I will roughen up both the inner rim edges and the tire edges, and try it out. If the problem continues, I will swap the tires between front and back to see if the problem follows the tire, or stays with the wheel. After that, I will try new tires.
 
2door

2door

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Sep 15, 2008
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I've only had that problem when my air pressure gets low. Under inflation would be my guess. What does the tire manufacturer say it should be? Try running them at the max pressure suggested and see what happens.
Tom
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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I concur with everything Bairdco said. About 40 or more PSI has always been the ball park proper inflation for me. I have not run into a relocating tire inflated in this manner my self for years now.. They will move if you don't catch them tho ''psi''.
 
The_Aleman

The_Aleman

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Jul 31, 2008
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I battled that problem on my front and rear for 8 months. Went through 7 tubes. It wasn't lack of tire pressure in my case, I was running 70-75psi.

Turned out that my rims didn't like my tires. As Baird said, slippery rims, but the tire bead does play a part, too. Some tires have thin beads.

Once I replaced my tires with a different brand, I didn't have the problem anymore.
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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Thin tubes might play a part into this equitation? I cannot use anything other than heavy thick tubes here in my travels.
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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The_Aleman said:
I tried using a pair of 26x2.7 2mm thick tubes and they made the problem even worse.

I actually had better results with a really thin 2.125 Slime tube I bought as a temp!
Click to expand...
Wut size tire were you trying to cram a 26X2.7 tube in? I only put those in 26x2.7 size tires. Or wut I mean I don't personally typically run any tires any smaller than 26x2.5's.

My theory on the ditty is a perfectly matched thick tube is perhaps stiffer in the situation dunno? I have never encountered or yet to come across a slippery rim per say.
 
The_Aleman

The_Aleman

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I was running Bontrager Hank 26x2.2. They are quite a bit larger than their rated size implies - my 2.3 Kenda Kiniptions are noticeably smaller and threw my speedometer off.

With the Hanks, I tried 4 different size tubes ranging from 1.95 to 2.7 at 40-75psi. It seemed the more weight in the tire there was, the more the tube and tire moved on the rim. I consistently saw less movement with lighter tubes than I did with heavy tubes. That led me to believe it was the fault of the tire beads.

At ~2200 miles, my rear Hank started showing a bit of ply, so I threw on a 4y/o Sun Flame 2.125 tire rated for only 40psi. I ran 40 in it and it never moved. Not once. When I was installing the Sun tire, I noticed right away the tire grabbed my rims much better than the Hanks did. The Kiniptions grabbed rim even more, and 80psi rated is a bonus.

I really loved those Hank tires, they are hands-down the best-handling tire I have ever bent a corner on. They just didn't play nice with my Weinmann DH-39s.
 
H

happyvalley

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Jul 24, 2008
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The_Aleman said:
I tried using a pair of 26x2.7 2mm thick tubes and they made the problem even worse.

I actually had better results with a really thin 2.125 Slime tube I bought as a temp!
Click to expand...
That's right, I've had problems with the thicker thorn proof tubes seating well also.

I had the same issue on one bike till I went up a tube size and that cured it.
 
rohmell

rohmell

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Jun 2, 2010
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Thanks for all of the replies, some really great and interesting information being presented here.

What bothers me is that the bicycle was hardly used and is a 2009 model, with all original parts, so I would think that the wheel/tube/tire would be matched and 'like' each other, and all it takes is a couple of blocks of riding before the valve stem is at an angle again.

Now that I think about it, at the yard sale,, the tires were unusually shiny for being from 2009, possibly the seller had applied tire shine or ArmourAll or something like that, maybe it ran down into the wheel and between the tire bead and rim, making everything slippery, but I did disassemble and dry wipe the rim, strip tube and inside of the tire before reinstalling everything.

Time for some light sandpaper action on the rim and tire bead, hopefully that will cure the problem.
 
The_Aleman

The_Aleman

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Ya know Rohmell, I think you have something there. I shined my Hank tires every week, they had large, pretty sidewalls! I used tire foam or tire wipes, not spray, but the stuff could still have got on the bead. The bead was much smaller than the other 2 tires I used, but the shine stuff could very well have caused my issue, or exacerbate it.

I never shined my new tires because they don't have real sidewalls. The whole tire has tread bead to bead.
 
Allen_Wrench

Allen_Wrench

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Feb 6, 2010
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bairdco said:
that usually happens due to low tire pressure, improper installation, or slippery rims.

when you installed the tubes, did you fill them up, deflate them, then fill them again?

you should always do that with a new tube so it seats properly. sometimes it can get twisted, pinched, or whatever during installation, but by deflating them and re-inflating them it'll make it fit inside right.

slippery rims sounds kinda stupid, but i've had bikes in the past with the same problem you have. it's the tire slipping on the rim, taking the tube with it. usually happens on the rear, though, due to the torque of pedaling (or motoring.)

you can take some sandpaper and rough up the inner rim edges, where the tire seats, and that should help stop it from slipping.

if none of that works, maybe that's why the bike was only 10 bucks...:)
Click to expand...
I just had a weird thought (remember - I said it was weird): say you buy these new steel rims, and they got a valve stem hole where the edges are still kinda sharp. You put these rims on your MB, but your tire is not quite inflated enough. You're motoring downhill at about 25, and a car pulls out...

So you slam on the brakes (in this scenario, you've got really good brakes). The wheel stops dead. But the tire, gripping the road surface, pivots along with the tube inside. The sharp edges of the rim's valve stem hole slice off your valve stem; your tire flattens quickly; crashing seems imminent; and a passerby gives you a handbasket when they see where you're going.

Could that actually happen???
 
Goat Herder

Goat Herder

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I always take a drill bit and a rat tail file to bevel the edges where the valve core sits in the hole at the rim. Kinda like an hour glass shape. Just enough to take any sharp edges away and no more.
 
rohmell

rohmell

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Jun 2, 2010
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UPDATE: Sanded the areas on the rim where the tire bead contacts it, and the tire bead itself and VOILA no more tube movement. (Or actually, tire movement)
 
rohmell

rohmell

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Jun 2, 2010
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ANOTHER UPDATE:
Put motor on the bike, and in 100 miles, the tire/tube has not moved a fraction.
I think it is good to go.
Problem Solved.
 
The_Aleman

The_Aleman

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Jul 31, 2008
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Cool Rohmell. I have over 300 miles on my Kiniptions so far and they haven't moved on the rim either. 55psi front, 75 psi rear, tires rated for 85psi.
Still aint using any tire shine stuff because these tires don't need it and really can't use it :D
 
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