Why do Motorized Bikes have to comply with repealed laws?

fatdaddy · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
"Who cares if a motorized bike is a "Vehicle" or not.
It doesn't change anything".

Actually whether the term "vehicle" applies to a motorized bike means everything. The word vehicle is also a legal definition. If it's not a "vehicle" then it's not a "Motor Vehicle" either. Regardless of the engine bolted to it, unless that engine is over 150cc. Any federal or state law referring to "motor vehicles" would simply not apply to a MB. It's that simple.

In the state of CA, a motorized bike is not defined as a vehicle on the DMV site. It's not taxed like one, it requires no yearly sticker like one. It requires no insurance like one. So no "Motor Vehicle" laws apply to it. All laws are and have to be specifically worded for a reason. So they can't be challenged in court. I could drive a Mac Truck through any ticket based on how the laws are worded and how the DMV defines the word "Vehicle" and the exclusion of how MB's are registered and one time fees the DMV collects on MB's. A lawyer would be in heaven if he got a MB case. It would be like a vacation for him. LOL

one

miked, You may(or may not,) be right about a lot of what you're saying, DON'T MATTER. Go to court and only two things can happen. You win or you lose. If you win it could change the freedoms we as M.B. riders enjoy in California today, (but probably not.) Then just pay your lawer for his time and yer done. As I recall there's still a couple of states where M.B's are not allowed AT ALL.
If you lose then no biggie, you just pay your fine, court costs, lawer fee's, ect, ect, ect. (Are you rich?)
I get hassled very little in California on my Motorized and would like to keep it that way. I catch more carp from the cops in my car.(Or just walking down the street.)
Federal law has always allowed for states to inact laws on their own as long as it doesn't interfere with the intent of the original Federal law. AND, If as you say, there's no Federal law to interfere with, then California can make up almost any law it wants concerning M.B's. Even to go as far as saying you have to comply to this obsolete law while riding a M.B. So either way, DON'T MATTER.
fatdaddy.
And OH YEAH, Most trailers are registered the same way. a one time fee.

Venice Motor Bikes · Oct 15, 2012

The sky is falling....

KCvale · Oct 15, 2012

I feel for you guys next door, I really do.

I read this whole topic before this posting because it is of GREAT INTEREST to me, not because I build them for a living, but because you guys think there is nothing YOU can do.

It is not fun nor is it easy, I have spent countless hours researching and I may fail but by god I have been jumping through the hoops for a year and come this January I have a pretty good chance of changing Arizona's state law regarding Motorized Bicycles which is actually pretty lax to begin with.

You need to present a good case for a law change to your states House Representative for your district to get it introduced into the State Legislature just to get the ball rolling, and then lobby the **** out of them all.

Ya, politics.

I can't help you guys in CA directly but I can indirectly via my year long Poll which has a link to narrow the nationwide poll to CA resident as it does AZ results.

Ya, a real movement backed by real peoples views by just 1 guy.

Don't tell me YOU can't do anything as a group in California!
Get all your clubs together and lobby together in mass after you spell out exactly what in detail needs to be changed like I have and don't get greedy.

Start Here:
http://kcsbikes.com/AZRS28-2516.htm#statute
Then sign it!

Ya, it is a lot frigg'n mind numbing work but if you want something as simple as the right to operate your motor assisted bicycle change what the definition of what a motorized bicycle is!

The same rules as a bicycle plus what else applies to motorized bicycles and don't be stupid here, it is politics, give a little, get a little, and safety is important.
Shoot, safety is important anyway and please don't tell me things like 'I am happy to do things unless I am forced to'.

I wear a helmet because I value my brain not because I am forced to, to not wear one when you normally would because your legally required to me is just beyond stupid to me.
The same applies to a front light as I know first hand the difference it makes in more occasions than I can count.

Remember this is politics, you need to convince your politicians this will make them look good not bad.

Again, please read and sign my poll and be smart about it, if I pull this off lobby to get AZ's law to replace yours with a years worth of poll results as I have ;-}

http://kcsbikes.com/AZRS28-2516.htm#statute

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

fatdaddy said:
miked, You may(or may not,) be right about a lot of what you're saying, DON'T MATTER. Go to court and only two things can happen. You win or you lose. If you win it could change the freedoms we as M.B. riders enjoy in California today, (but probably not.) Then just pay your lawer for his time and yer done. As I recall there's still a couple of states where M.B's are not allowed AT ALL.
If you lose then no biggie, you just pay your fine, court costs, lawer fee's, ect, ect, ect. (Are you rich?)
I get hassled very little in California on my Motorized and would like to keep it that way. I catch more carp from the cops in my car.(Or just walking down the street.)
Federal law has always allowed for states to inact laws on their own as long as it doesn't interfere with the intent of the original Federal law. AND, If as you say, there's no Federal law to interfere with, then California can make up almost any law it wants concerning M.B's. Even to go as far as saying you have to comply to this obsolete law while riding a M.B. So either way, DON'T MATTER.
fatdaddy.
And OH YEAH, Most trailers are registered the same way. a one time fee.

When was the last time you were pulled over by the "Federal Police" because you broke a Federal law? LOL
Local cops have to enforce Federal as well as state laws. It's that simple.

If there is no Federal law to interfere with, then why is it on the DMV website then saying there is a law and that you must comply with it? LOL

If a MB is a motor vehicle and subject to "motor vehicle" laws then why is it not defined as such on the DMV website? Why is it solely excluded from what the DMV defines as a "vehicle"?

"Don't have to comply with an obsolete law"? Cops are still being trained as if that law is not obsolete. The DMV has it on its website like it's not "obsolete". It should be removed from the site to end the confusion. It has no business being there. Cops will right you a ticket based on that as well. It's not if but only when they will.

MotorBicycleRacing · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
When was the last time you were pulled over by the "Federal Police" because you broke a Federal law? LOL
Local cops have to enforce Federal as well as state laws. It's that simple.

If there is no Federal law to interfere with, then why is it on the DMV website then saying there is a law and that you must comply with it? LOL

If a MB is a motor vehicle and subject to "motor vehicle" laws then why is it not defined as such on the DMV website? Why is it solely excluded from what the DMV defines as a "vehicle"?

"Don't have to comply with an obsolete law"? Cops are still being trained as if that law is not obsolete. The DMV has it on its website like it's not "obsolete". It should be removed from the site to end the confusion. It has no business being there. Cops will right you a ticket based on that as well. It's not if but only when they will.

Your theory is full of holes.
Motor Assisted Cycles which are under 150 cc and have yearly tags
and all the same stuff as a defined Motorcycle are also not mentioned
according to your searches so they aren't vehicles too?

The DMV website is not that accurate and doesn't cover everything.
The CA CVC codes are in written form so the website is not the last word.

There are many out of date CVC codes on the DMV website.

A bicycle is not a motor vehicle too but it is subject to all traffic laws
and you can get tickets on a bicycle for all kinds of stuff including equipment
violations, no helmet, not registered in certain cities, speeding, drunk, etc.

Your point that a motorized bike / Moped is not a Motor Vehicle changes
nothing.
CA is the only state that has a 1000 watt limit on eBikes where as most
states limit them to 750 watts and some like New York ban ebikes.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Your theory is full of holes.
Motor Assisted Cycles which are under 150 cc and have yearly tags
and all the same stuff as a defined Motorcycle are also not mentioned
according to your searches so they aren't vehicles too?

The DMV website is not that accurate and doesn't cover everything.
The CA CVC codes are in written form so the website is not the last word.

There are many out of date CVC codes on the DMV website.

A bicycle is not a motor vehicle too but it is subject to all traffic laws
and you can get tickets on a bicycle for all kinds of stuff including equipment
violations, no helmet, not registered in certain cities, speeding, drunk, etc.

Your point that a motorized bike / Moped is not a Motor Vehicle changes
nothing.

Cops can't write tickets based on laws that no longer exist. Unless you live in Mexico that is. The last time I checked CA was still in the USA.

Full of holes huh? LOL
Have a look at this "hole" then.

It's just a list of CA VC Violations. This is hole: 24015(a)

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/lov/lovd12.htm

Every cop has this in his VC book and will probably be applying it the first chance they get.....especially if they are being trained in "Cop Class" on it.
No big deal. LOL

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Your theory is full of holes.
Motor Assisted Cycles which are under 150 cc and have yearly tags
and all the same stuff as a defined Motorcycle are also not mentioned
according to your searches so they aren't vehicles too?

The DMV website is not that accurate and doesn't cover everything.
The CA CVC codes are in written form so the website is not the last word.

There are many out of date CVC codes on the DMV website.

A bicycle is not a motor vehicle too but it is subject to all traffic laws
and you can get tickets on a bicycle for all kinds of stuff including equipment
violations, no helmet, not registered in certain cities, speeding, drunk, etc.

Your point that a motorized bike / Moped is not a Motor Vehicle changes
nothing.
CA is the only state that has a 1000 watt limit on eBikes where as most
states limit them to 750 watts and some like New York ban ebikes.

You could think you are completely legal with your $19 plate and DOT helmet until you run into the cop that charges you with violating CA VC 24015(a) like the cop told me he was gonna slap me with for being a smart azz.

You will never be "Legal" according to 24015(a) because it applies to "motorcycles" and you will be screwed because a MB can not meet the standard of a MC unless it was specially built from the ground up to do so.

No big deal right? LOL

MotorBicycleRacing · Oct 15, 2012

Venice Motor Bikes said:
The sky is falling....

Yep, I just hope that no cops are reading this because they
might be getting ideas.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Yep, I just hope that no cops are reading this because they
might be getting ideas.

Dude that's exactly what the moto cop told me. He told me "You can't make that bike legal so where are you gonna ride it?"

He was referring to VC 24015(a) because he said, "that's what they taught me in the Cop Class I just completed". My reply was a loud cackling laugh in front of about 20 shuttle spectators that were less than a foot away from us on the sidewalk. We had our own personal audience listening to the whole conversation. LOL

MotorBicycleRacing · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
Dude that's exactly what the moto cop told me. He told me "You can't make that bike legal so where are you gonna ride it?"

He was referring to VC 24015(a) because he said, "that's what they taught me in the Cop Class I just completed". My reply was a loud cackling laugh in front of about 20 shuttle spectators that were less than a foot away from us on the sidewalk. We had our own personal audience listening to the whole conversation. LOL

Hey, are you coming out the big race this Saturday 20th at Grange Motor Circuit?
There is a 50 cc 4 stroke class that your bike would fit into.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Yep, I just hope that no cops are reading this because they
might be getting ideas.

LAPD has just recently sent it's motorcycle cops to "class" on MB law - 24015(a), and I had nothing to do with it because I am way late in the MB world. I just built my first MB for cryin' out loud.

LAPD has handed MB enforcement to its Motorcycle Cop Division. Unless you have a machine gun strapped to your back, LAPD squad cars will probably just look the other way.

The only law that will nail a MB'er to the wall no matter how legal that MB'er thinks he is, is 24015(a)....and it's a bogus law that has nothing to do with MB's and has no right being in the CA VC. It was simply thrown into the VC to quickly as easily deal with MB's.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Hey, are you coming out the big race this Saturday 20th at Grange Motor Circuit?
There is a 50 cc 4 stroke class that your bike would fit into.

My bike is also 2000 watts of Crystalyte electric. It's a gas/electric. Look at my rear wheel. It wouldn't even be fair. I also need to get a special bike rack to carry my bike. My bike ways a ton. I just ordered special 100 PSI tires for it because it's so heavy.

MotorBicycleRacing · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
My bike is also 2000 watts of Crystalyte electric. It's a gas/electric. Look at my rear wheel. It wouldn't even be fair. I also need to get a special bike rack to carry my bike. My bike ways a ton. I just ordered special 100 PSI tires for it because it's so heavy.

Fair?
nashmoto on his 50 cc Honda with jack shafted NuVinci
would probably still beat you.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Fair?
nashmoto on his 50 cc Honda with jack shafted NuVinci
would probably still beat you.

LOL Maybe your right. It would definitely be an interesting race to say the least. I don't have any additional top end speed. All I have extra is massive amounts of off-the-line electric torque that is also used in conjunction with my gas engine to basically climb vertical hills without having to pedal once. It adds nothing to my top speed though.

I would lose in the straightaways for sure with just the 48V battery pack I have.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
LOL Maybe your right. It would definitely be an interesting race to say the least. I don't have any additional top end speed. All I have extra is massive amounts of off-the-line electric torque that is also used in conjunction with my gas engine to basically climb vertical hills without having to pedal once. It adds nothing to my top speed though.

I would lose in the straightaways for sure with just the 48V battery pack I have.

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Fair?
nashmoto on his 50 cc Honda with jack shafted NuVinci
would probably still beat you.

My pedals become worthless after about 10MPH with a 24T chainring, so my pedals are basically just for looks. I would need a very twisty bendy racetrack to really shine with the setup I have.

MotorBicycleRacing · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
My pedals become worthless after about 10MPH with a 24T chainring, so my pedals are basically just for looks. I would need a very twisty bendy racetrack to really shine with the setup I have.

Grange is exactly that. It's a perfect track for motorized bikes.

The long straight is slightly uphill running it CCW and it really isn't
that big of a factor in lap times.
Cornering is what it's all about....

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

MotorBicycleRacing said:
Grange is exactly that. It's a perfect track for motorized bikes.

The long straight is slightly uphill running it CCW and it really isn't
that big of a factor in lap times.
Cornering is what it's all about....

I'm waiting for my 100 PSI Geax Tattoo Rigid tires to come in. The tires I have now are just too dangerous with that electric hub installed. I already had 1 pinch flat to the rear tire and that was it for me.

Then I gotta get a bike rack that connects to a trailer hitch to carry this bike. I'm about broke after this electric hub setup. It's crazy expensive.

BigBlue · Oct 15, 2012

miked826 said:
I'm waiting for my 100 PSI Geax Tattoo Rigid tires to come in. The tires I have now are just too dangerous with that electric hub installed. I already had 1 pinch flat to the rear tire and that was it for me.

Then I gotta get a bike rack that connects to a trailer hitch to carry this bike. I'm about broke after this electric hub setup. It's crazy expensive.

Those are some nice looking tires and a good price. For everyday tire, you might want to look for a heavier tire since you have a lot of weight being carried on that bike.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

miked826 · Oct 15, 2012

BigBlue said:
Those are some nice looking tires and a good price. For everyday tire, you might want to look for a heavier tire since you have a lot of weight being carried on that bike.

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

There is nothing "everyday" about this tire. There is no stiffer sidewall tire on the planet. Show me another tire that holds 100 PSI and I'll consider it. LOL

Why do Motorized Bikes have to comply with repealed laws?

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