sprocket dished out?

andrewinfl · Jun 14, 2013

This is my first kit build. I mounted the sprocket dished in. The way it looks like it should go on.

The chain is close to the tire, not touching it. But its close enough to make me wonder.

Then I read people instal them dished out to get more clearance.

I spend so much time getting the rag joint all centered, now I'm not sure if I should switch it around.

Any thoughts?

crassius · Jun 14, 2013

most often, folks will dish in on a skinny tire and out on a fat cruiser tire - don't forget that the chain also needs to be clear of the rear forks too

2door · Jun 14, 2013

Chain alignment between the drive and driven sprockets is the important issue. If they are aligned now, leave it alone. If you can sight down the chain from the rear looking forward and see that the engine drive sprocket seems to be to the left of the rear sprocket then the dish needs to be to the outside.

As long as you have clearance between the chain and the sidewall of the tire, no problem. A little chain slap might allow the chain to touch the tire occasionally but unless it rubs continously don't worry about it.

Keep your chain tensioned correctly, 1/2" to 3/4" of slack and you'll be fine.

Tom

fatdaddy · Jun 14, 2013

Yep, Listen to 2door. ( I find myself saying this all the time.)
Chain alignment, besides the engine being straight and tight, IS the most critical part of the build. You can use a straight edge from the front to rear sprocket to do this, But you can just eyeball it pretty close too. With the chain unhooked but still on the front drive sprocket, look down the chain to see how it falls on the drive sprocket. You can move it left or right and see when it hits dead center on it. Then, Taking the chain STRAIGHT BACK from there, you can see where the rear sprocket SHOULD be. Yeah, taking the rag joint apart, sometimes several times, can be a PITA. But less a pain than pedaling home 20 miles because yer chain fell off, got wrapped up and twisted all up in yer wheel.
fatdaddy.
P.S. When you do take off the rag joint, Go down to the local hardware store and replace the chinese nuts and bolts with a better, (grade 8) set of nuts and bolts.

andrewinfl · Jun 15, 2013

I took it apart and dished it out. It fits better now, I'm glad I did it. My engine is in place really good with grade 8 studs too.

Now I'm not sure if I should keep the chain that came with my kit or not. Directions said to have the chain all the was tightened at first. Thats how I have it now. Thinking it will stretch right out anyway. Maybe I should loosen it a bit.

2door · Jun 15, 2013

A chain that is too tight can be almost as trouble prone as one that is too loose. It will be rougher, noisier and wear quicker. It also puts undue stress on all of the drive components. Shoot for that 1/2 to 3/4 slack and keep your chain lubricated.

If/when you decide to replace the kit chain go to #41 industrial roller chain. Diamond is one brand, Morse and Browning are some others that makes quality chain. Some Ace Hardware stores sell #41 but it won't be the quality that you'll get from an indistrial supplier like Grainger or Applied Technology. They sell the better brands.

Tom

crassius · Jun 15, 2013

best not to get lazy with chains - adjust it properly at the tightest spot, then readjust over next few days as it stretches

fatdaddy · Jun 15, 2013

Tom and Crassius are both 100% right. But to clarify only. The rag joint is very difficult to get "perfect". It can be done, But it usually takes a lot of practice and experience with them. SO, Most rag joints are not "perfect". Spin your wheel untill it hits the spot where your chain is at it's tightest point. This is where you want to give it the 1/2" to 3/4" chain slack.
2door, as always, is also right about getting good quality chain. I use the cheaper stuff but thats only because I'm poor folk and too cheap to shell out the dough. BUT, going with the cheap stuff also means that you have to have the rag joint PERFECT or the cheap chain F's up QUICK. And while trying not to belittle your mencanical abilities, you are a novice motorized builder and may not have the rag joint PERFECT. What I would do if I were you is order the better chain now, and run the one you have untill you need it. (just a suggestion.)
fatdaddy.

2door · Jun 15, 2013

In all honesty I've used the kit supplied #415 chain with decent success. The trick is to closely inspect the chain before installing it. What I've found is a chain that is either twisted or it has rough or binding links.

Lay the chain out flat on a flat smooth surface and see that it isn't twisted. If it is, don't use it, or expect possible troubles.

I like to pull the chain over my finger from end to end and see how the links/rollers work. The small radius of your finger, or something about the same diameter will show you if a link or links do not rotate smoothly. Of course you'll want the chain clean and lubricated before this test. Yes, your fingers will get dirty

If the chain lays flat and has no binding links use it but expect it to wear (sometimes called 'stretch') more than a good quality industrial chain. You might have to adjust your chain tension a little more often until the link components 'seat' and begin to move against the sprocket teeth easier.

Another little trick is to smooth the edges of the sprocket teeth, particualrly the rear, driven sprocket. The factory rough edges can catch and cause rough chain action. I like a wire wheel on a bench grinder but a file, course sandpaper, a Dremel tool or anything that will take off the rough machining of the kit sprocket will help the chain run smoother and last longer.

Tom

fatdaddy · Jun 15, 2013

2door said:
In all honesty I've used the kit supplied #415 chain with decent success. The trick is to closely inspect the chain before installing it. What I've found is a chain that is either twisted or it has rough or binding links.

Lay the chain out flat on a flat smooth surface and see that it isn't twisted. If it is, don't use it, or expect possible troubles.

I like to pull the chain over my finger from end to end and see how the links/rollers work. The small radius of your finger, or something about the same diameter will show you if a link or links do not rotate smoothly. Of course you'll want the chain clean and lubricated before this test. Yes, your fingers will get dirty

If the chain lays flat and has no binding links use it but expect it to wear (sometimes called 'stretch') more than a good quality industrial chain. You might have to adjust your chain tension a little more often until the link components 'seat' and begin to move against the sprocket teeth easier.

Another little trick is to smooth the edges of the sprocket teeth, particualrly the rear, driven sprocket. The factory rough edges can catch and cause rough chain action. I like a wire wheel on a bench grinder but a file, course sandpaper, a Dremel tool or anything that will take off the rough machining of the kit sprocket will help the chain run smoother and last longer.

Tom

Yep AGAIN. And that's why you're a motorized bicycle Guru here and I'm just a lowly member. You actually take the time and remember everything that needs to be done. Thing is, I know all this stuff too, I just don't remember to get it out when needed. So THANKS Tom. You make life a little easier for all of us.
fatdaddy.

crassius · Jun 16, 2013

I grind the sides of those teeth (where the factory puts an 1/8 inch or so of bevel) till they're knife sharp - they can't miss the gap of the chain that way.

fatdaddy · Jun 16, 2013

crassius said:
I grind the sides of those teeth (where the factory puts an 1/8 inch or so of bevel) till they're knife sharp - they can't miss the gap of the chain that way.

To grind or not to grind, That is the question.
Wether 'tis nobler to suffer the teeth and valleys of outrageous sprockets.
Or to take grinders against a sea of chinese sprockets.
and by grinding, end them.

(You may quote me on this.)
fatdaddy.

andrewinfl · Jun 16, 2013

Rode the bike last night for about one minute. I think I need to get my "sprocket door cover" off and see if I need to do some grinding in there. I am hearing a little noise in there from the chain. I could not get one of the screws out. I don't have my impact screw driver there. I tired with hammer and screw driver with no luck. Scared to crack it.

crassius · Jun 16, 2013

fatdaddy said:
To grind or not to grind, That is the question.
Wether 'tis nobler to suffer the teeth and valleys of outrageous sprockets.
Or to take grinders against a sea of chinese sprockets.
and by grinding, end them.

(You may quote me on this.)
fatdaddy.

I'm happy with grinding & after 3 tries and much frustration, my customers that come to me for grinding think I'm a magician (which is also good for business).

fatdaddy · Jun 17, 2013

crassius said:
I'm happy with grinding & after 3 tries and much frustration, my customers that come to me for grinding think I'm a magician (which is also good for business).

Yeah crassius, We've had the "To grind or not to grind" discussion before. And I'll just say what I say all the time,
IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY.
fatdaddy.

bigbutterbean · Jun 17, 2013

Tractor Supply also sells their own brand of #41 roller chain as well, 10ft for $20. Enough to do two bikes, and its good stuff. I'm using it on my 98cc cruiser and don't think I will ever switch brands as long as I require #41. And for $20, I don't even mind replacing it once or twice a year if needed. Its pretty heavy duty, so I doubt it will need replaced more than once a year.

Mr. Minecraft · Jun 18, 2013

As far as sharpening the sprocket goes, I do this on all my bikes. I sharpen each side of each tooth on my bench grinder. Makes the chain run a lot smoother in my opinion.

fatdaddy · Jun 19, 2013

I'm not gonna start a debate, Just gonna explain my thinking on this, Then drop it.
First, Grinding a sprocket won't hurt it, And if it's not PERFECTLY aligned, This will help the chain get around the rear sprocket.
BUT, Like I've said, I gotta have mine pretty much perfect. Let me try to explain it this way. The sprocket is narrower than the space between the inner sides of the chain links. If the chain is aligned and running centered then the teeth will never touch the inner sides of the chain links, making grinding a moot point. I have filed some sprockets a little to get rid of some of the real bad imperfections from that GREAT Chinese quality control, But never felt the need to grind the teeth razor sharp. Even with the rag joint you can MAKE the chain run straight and centered.
I know SOMEONE will disagree with me and want to dispute this, but like I said, I'm gonna explain my thinking, Then drop it. Grinding the teeth I think is a personal choice, You either do or don't. YOUR CHOICE. And I'm not putting anyone down for doing it, Just explaining my point of veiw.
fatdaddy.

crassius · Jun 19, 2013

I'm doing it just to allow for customer stupidity once they take the bike home where their only tool is a big channel lock plier.

fatdaddy · Jun 19, 2013

crassius said:
I'm doing it just to allow for customer stupidity once they take the bike home where their only tool is a big channel lock plier.

There ya go, NOT a bad idea. If the customer takes the wheel off, just to fix a flat or whatever, they could possibly screw it up. No way to make it completely idiot proof, But it could help.
fatdaddy.

sprocket dished out?

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