Genesi 29 @ 50mph??? Frame choice

culvercityclassic said:

Post some pictures of these 50 mph bikes

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Here are a couple pics of the 63 Western Flyer that I GPS'd @ 49.8 MPH, on the last run I may have actually surpassed 50 MPH by 3/10's of a MPH, my digital Speedometer has registered 51.5 MPH everytime I have got a GPS reading of 49.8 MPH, but as you can see in the pic of my Speedometer that last run showed a max speed of 52.0 MPH if the figures are correct and 51.5=49.8MPH then I may have actually had a last run of 50.3 MPH on that last test run, I wouldn't swear to it of course since there isn't any hard evidence to back that claim up, but I can say with certainty that I have reached the top speed of 49.8 MPH multiple times on this bike, but I honestly have no desire to do it again, the fear of a tire blowing out or something else on the bike giving away has really got me thinking about all this after reaching these speeds and I think I'm gonna build my bike with a gearing that gives me good performance in the low to maximum mid 40's from now on, I just don't trust the bike tubes even though I use the heavy duty Kenda Thorn resistant type, the new Kenda Kiniption tires should hold up OK I think but if a valve stem blows off the tube which I have seen happen, that would be a heck of a wild ride to the ground at 49-50 MPH or actually any speed for that matter.

I just wanted to see if I could do enough mods to the internals of this little engine to get it to pull me up to those speeds under the right conditions, I have always had a desire to get a china girl to the 50 MPH mark and I have done it on this one but I'm done with that kinda speed on a regular type bicycle, I proved to myself that I could get it done without spending a fortune on the engine and I did so I'm happy and I have assured my wife I will not be doing it anymore because she has drove behind me in her SUV and was scared to death when she looked down at her speedo and seen how fast she had to go just to keep up with me...LOL!

Anyway, here are some pics of the bike, I have not tore it down, and done all the nice painting and several other things I have planned for this nice little frame and in the pics it is very dirty and has several things about it including the forks and handlebars that will be replaced when I make this into a nice clean looking bike when I have time, I just put it together with what I had laying around to test this little engine build, I did have a fatty expansion pipe on it but it hurt my top speed and the stock type pipe that has been port matched as close as possible with all guts removed and larger hole drilled actually has given me the best top speed performance of anything I put on this engine, it doesnt have quiet as much low to mid grunt with this pipe, but for some reason this engine will scream top end with it.

Why stop now?

With just a little more work I'm sure you could make 55.

Get rid of those apes and run a flat bar.

The_Aleman said:

There's a first time for everything. For every 10MPH you attain, you travel 14.66 feet per second. That's roughly a 1 story building. So at 50MPH, you're traveling roughly a 5 story building every second. On a crappy department store bike. Your "no problems" and "my only accident" status come increasing amounts of stress the more time goes on - as does the frame of that generic department store bicycle you use like a cheap drug to get your fix.

Maybe one day you'll be like so many long-lost members here and disappear, never to be seen again. You won't be able to speak of your (possibly first) problem or your (possibly second) accident. If you're lucky you'll be a story on darwinawards.com. Your experience will be of much more use there than here, IMHO.



Heh. I'd call it stupid. Absolutely stupid. It takes some mental effort to be nuts. It takes none to be stupid.

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No body says it better then the Aleman.... CCC

culvercityclassic said:

No body says it better then the Aleman.... CCC

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Maybe the phrase here should be nobody talks out there back side better than Aleman...LOL! Sorry Aleman... just joking with you... I know what you mean by what you posted and all of it is a valid concern.


I 'll bet if you went back in time and heard what people were saying about the first motorcycles it would sound about the same as what Aleman said....

I will admit that going 50 MPH or even close to it on a light weight bike is a bit daring and risky, but so is a lot of other things in life like driving your car a few blocks to the nearest store for milk and bread since most wrecks happen just a short distance from home..

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not condoning people go get a wally world bike and build a 50 MPH bike out of it that they plan to ride all the time on at those speeds. yes that would be stupid in my opinion and a higher risk than it would be to do it on a much better built bike, my testing and this particular buld was just to see if the mods I did to that engine could get my 215 lbs to that speed on the bike and I did it and am through with going those speeds on this bike, it is a good quality bike in my opinion, it does need some things done to it and will get some mods to add strength in the rear dropouts and I plan to put some better forks on this bike as well, but it is a solid old medium weight American made frame and I feel confident that it will stay together just fine running the upper 30's to lower 40's speeds I plan to have it set up for when I'm done with it.

But oh well, opinions are just like b**t holes we all have them and most of them stink, including some of my own...LOL! but hey.. thats OK, I completely understand the concern and it is warranted because 50 MPH is just to fast on 99% of the bicycles out there these days, they were never designed for that kinda speed and if you do it on them long enough it's likely to bite you in the back side.

Thanks for all the colorful input fellas.... I'm sure these post will get attention for a long time and none of it really offends me, as I have said, I do understand the concern and will add that I don't recommend other do what I have done, it could get you hurt very bad or even killed, I'm an old school hot rodder and just had to see if I could do it and I did so now I'm done, I did what I set out to do when I got into this hobby and I'm ready to just enjoy some safer cruise speeds on my bikes from here on out.

Map

Mike B said:

Why stop now?

With just a little more work I'm sure you could make 55.

Get rid of those apes and run a flat bar.

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No doubt that I could use a bigger wel tuned carb and drop my rear sprocket down to a 28T I have in place of the 30T tooth I'm running now and get a little more out of it, but I'm done... I dont care to see the 50 MPH mark again on one of my regular bicycles, just to dangerous.

As for the apes, I have plans to swap them out, I had flat bars on this bike initially but I ride long round trips and flat bars are very uncomfortable doing 40-50 mile round trip rides, they look better on a bike like the old Western Flyer but a taller bar that lets me sit up some sure make for a nicer ride instead of all those miles with so much weight baring down on my hands with all that leaning over.

I will probably put some BMX bars on this old bike, they aren't too high, but high enough to be more comfortable and they will look better than those old Wald Stingray Type apes on it now.

Map

Since the birth of the motorcycle, people have on average gotten larger and components have gotten cheaper (and flimsier). Back in the mid 1900s, people weren't buying department-store bicycles that were made in China. In fact, until the 1980s, most department store bicycles were for the most part well-made; over-engineered even.

Things aren't like that anymore. We have larger, greedier, cheaper-minded people 100 years after the birth of the motorcycle - along with a whole lot more legislation designed to stop stupid people with the side-effect of ruining the fun for the rest of us.

My concern is that wannabe go-fast morons mucking up this scene on piece of junk bicycles are going to cause this thing we love to be legislated out of legality. I don't care if some go-fast moron gets hurt - he/she deserves it IMHO - all I care about is MaBs staying legal on the streets. If enough go-fast morons kill themselves on MaBs - when they should have got motorcycles to begin with - MaBs themselves could be made illegal.

People on here putting motorcycle-displacement-sized engines, building 40-50+ MPH bikes and then bragging about it are the sorts of people I _hope_ lay bike down just hard enough to see the error of their ways. Bragging about speed on these things makes the braggart look even more dumb the faster they go, IMHO.

Heck, some people here even have trophies

Trophies like this?



Earned on a track under RACING conditions!

The_Aleman said:

Since the birth of the motorcycle, people have on average gotten larger and components have gotten cheaper (and flimsier). Back in the mid 1900s, people weren't buying department-store bicycles that were made in China. In fact, until the 1980s, most department store bicycles were for the most part well-made; over-engineered even.

Things aren't like that anymore. We have larger, greedier, cheaper-minded people 100 years after the birth of the motorcycle - along with a whole lot more legislation designed to stop stupid people with the side-effect of ruining the fun for the rest of us.

My concern is that wannabe go-fast morons mucking up this scene on piece of junk bicycles are going to cause this thing we love to be legislated out of legality. I don't care if some go-fast moron gets hurt - he/she deserves it IMHO - all I care about is MaBs staying legal on the streets. If enough go-fast morons kill themselves on MaBs - when they should have got motorcycles to begin with - MaBs themselves could be made illegal.

People on here putting motorcycle-displacement-sized engines, building 40-50+ MPH bikes and then bragging about it are the sorts of people I _hope_ lay bike down just hard enough to see the error of their ways. Bragging about speed on these things makes the braggart look even more dumb the faster they go, IMHO.

Heck, some people here even have trophies

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Well contrary to some of what you have said here Aleman, I don't wish harm to anyone since wishing those kinda things can bring it upon ones self.

I do however agree that high speeds on el-cheapo clunker bikes can be dangerous, but to be on the reality side of things it's also true that just peddling a bike at high speeds can be dangerous and any engine or electric motor powered bike can be dangerous no matter if it cruises at 20 mph or twice that, I know for you obviously and probably some others who especially live in very liberal minded states, keeping the motorized bikes legal is a big concern because they're are so many idiots in this country no days that would blame the bike on someone killing themselves on it rather than just seeing the reality of the matter and realizing it was the individuals fault for doing what they did on the bike, just the same as some people think guns cause crime, rather than blaming the people that do the crime which only use a gun as the chosen tool, but the same people say nothing about all the murders that are done with a knife, bat or hammer each year in this country.

I agree that we all need to be logical about how we build and ride our bikes so that we don't become front page news in a negative way and mess this excellent and fun hobby up for all of us, but at the same time we all know that some people are gonna take chances and do silly stuff, that is a human condition that most all of us have lived at some point in our lives and we cant change that so I just say here is what I did out on a back road from where I live which is several miles away from the nearest town and thats that, no promotion here by me for others to get out in the street and go zipping through town at 50 MPH on a bicycle of any type, I run with traffic in town up to low to mid 40's MPH on one or two stretches of road, but I mainly try to stay in the 30 MPH zones as much as I can and I ride safe as possible and obey the laws just as if I were cruising through town on my Harley or in my Truck.

Relax Aleman....LOL! it will all be OK....

Map

scotto- said:

Trophies like this?



Earned on a track under RACING conditions!

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That is a beautiful bike Scotto, Congrats on the Trophies.....!

Map

scotto- said:

Earned on a track under RACING conditions!

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Tested on the street in illegal conditions tho. I've seen your YouTube videos. I know you're really proud of your flimsy-motorcycle-with-pedals/go-kart-with-an-identity-crisis, but you're just a guy with 20+HP on a bicycle inviting others to do the same.

That's cool that you sate much of your need for speed on the track, but you're a go-fast moron magnet IMHO.

mapbike said:

Well contrary to some of what you have said here Aleman, I don't wish harm to anyone since wishing those kinda things can bring it upon ones self.

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If you read more carefully, you'd see I don't wish any harm on anyone, I just said it wouldn't break my heart any if some go-fast moron lays the bike down just hard enough to get some sense knocked into himself.

Relax Aleman....LOL! it will all be OK....Map

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I'm perfectly relaxed. You might want to get that LOL thing fixed tho, it's almost like you have Tourettes. Some kind of a tic or something, you use it like punctuation in most of your posts. Just saying, it looks pretty silly. Reminds me of Paulie from The Sopranos

The_Aleman said:

Tested on the street in illegal conditions tho. I've seen your YouTube videos. I know you're really proud of your flimsy-motorcycle-with-pedals/go-kart-with-an-identity-crisis, but you're just a guy with 20+HP on a bicycle inviting others to do the same.

That's cool that you sate much of your need for speed on the track, but you're a go-fast moron magnet IMHO.



If you read more carefully, you'd see I don't wish any harm on anyone, I just said it wouldn't break my heart any if some go-fast moron lays the bike down just hard enough to get some sense knocked into himself.



I'm perfectly relaxed. You might want to get that LOL thing fixed tho, it's almost like you have Tourettes. Some kind of a tic or something, you use it like punctuation in most of your posts. Just saying, it looks pretty silly. Reminds me of Paulie from The Sopranos

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So Aleman, wishing someone would lay a bike down hard enough to knock what you would consider "sense" into them isn't wishing for someone to get hurt?

On your other comment, you want to be critical of something as simple as the universal abbreviation for (Laugh Out Loud) being used by me in my posts and yourself, you rarely have anything good to say in regards to what others do with or to their bikes as if you are some kind of all knowing bike god that has it all figured out and truly believes that you are the all knowing authority that knows how motorized bikes should be built and how they should be used.... sorry Aleman but IMHO you are the joke here for making the arrogant and negative comments toward others here.

Opinions are one thing and we all have them good & bad, but the way you seem to deal out constant negative comments toward others that don't do everything just the way you think it should be done, is pretty ridiculous and makes me think that maybe its you that has the abnormal brain function issues.... oh by the way now is time for another LOL moment, come on man, what the heck is your problem.

Yes you need to relax in your thinking and stop talking to everyone else as if you are somehow above others and have taken some sort of high ground that the rest of us have failed to find yet... good grief!

Seems you want to do all others here who don't have bike powered like yours the same way some spandex'ers want to do all motorized bikers, not cool in my opinion and completely out of line.



Map

The_Aleman said:

Tested on the street in illegal conditions tho. I've seen your YouTube videos. I know you're really proud of your flimsy-motorcycle-with-pedals/go-kart-with-an-identity-crisis, but you're just a guy with 20+HP on a bicycle inviting others to do the same.

That's cool that you sate much of your need for speed on the track, but you're a go-fast moron magnet IMHO.

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Ooooo, ouch, that almost hurt's.........and you my friend are just an ordinary moron going through his mid-life crisis.

We can make these points without the name-calling yes?

you say it all pretty much right here scotto

"A sense of humor costs nothing, why don't people use them more often?
"You can't buy respect.....you have to earn it"

Map

Yes I certainly can.......not too sure about The_snAleman though?

I am realy puzzled . Most states have size and speeded laws,MN is 2hp and 30 mph. So what is the point of all the speed? Johnny law says only so fast we go faster,then they will Chang the law and soon there will be no motor bicycle. ..........Curt

I cringe whenever I see folks wanting to do 40. Let alone 50. 30 is too fast for me. Really, I don't like to go that fast on a bicycle. That's why they invented motorcycles.

This is good for doing 55 MPH;



Perfectly safe and stable at that speed. DOT rated tires that are approved for putting 15 HP to the road w/o deformation.

I know, for some people the performance gene overpowers the safety gene and I'm not gonna tell anyone what to do with their own money and body. I will tell you what I do though and I don't exceed 25 on a motorized bicycle. It makes me a little nervous going 25. 20 is better -

Have fun, be careful and understand that bicycle components are just not designed for that kind of speed. Next time you are out and see a light weight motorcycle, check out the wheels, tires, axle size and frame geometry. That is what it takes to be safe at 50 MPH.

curtisfox said:

I am realy puzzled . Most states have size and speeded laws,MN is 2hp and 30 mph. So what is the point of all the speed? Johnny law says only so fast we go faster,then they will Chang the law and soon there will be no motor bicycle. ..........Curt

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well thats the good thing about living in central Texas, I ride through town at the posted speed limit whether 20, 30 or 40 mph and many times I have road past or been past by our local Sheriff or Deputies, the State Troopers pull up beside me with a big grin and give me a thumbs up as well do many of the local Police Officers, in Texas my bike is in a gray area and the listed laws don't really give guidelines for them, under Texas law my bike is still in every way considered a bicycle, I'm sure they could come up with something to badger me about if they wanted too, but here in small town Texas we all enjoy personal freedoms and people know its best to just mind their own business and live and let live, to be otherwise can get people pretty riled up, as long as someone isn't posing a threat to others and isnt outright breaking any laws motorized bicyclist around here don't get bothered at all, as a matter of fact, the law officers around here are very interested in the bikes and act like kids in a candy store when ever they have a chance to get a close look and walk around of the bike, at least for now our Texas laws are pretty darn friendly to us and if someone has a wreck and get hurt or killed they wont likely blame the bike but the rider for not paying attention, or it will just be seen as a simple accident that we all know happens sometime, I just don't see anyone where I live going on a witch hunt for the motorized bicycles, even my local bike shop people are cool with my bikes and enjoy talking about them and looking at them and of course selling me parts and pieces for them.....LOL

Ride safe everyone, and if your laws are crazy where you live... sorry about that.

Map

Mike B said:

I cringe whenever I see folks wanting to do 40. Let alone 50. 30 is too fast for me. Really, I don't like to go that fast on a bicycle. That's why they invented motorcycles.

This is good for doing 55 MPH;

Perfectly safe and stable at that speed. DOT rated tires that are approved for putting 15 HP to the road w/o deformation.

I know, for some people the performance gene overpowers the safety gene and I'm not gonna tell anyone what to do with their own money and body. I will tell you what I do though and I don't exceed 25 on a motorized bicycle. It makes me a little nervous going 25. 20 is better -

Have fun, be careful and understand that bicycle components are just not designed for that kind of speed. Next time you are out and see a light weight motorcycle, check out the wheels, tires, axle size and frame geometry. That is what it takes to be safe at 50 MPH.

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I own Motorcycles and have rode them all my life, had an uncle who owned a Yamaha Dealership and was a racer, built up dirt bikes, built 50+ MPH go Karts and tinkered with this stuff since I built my first engine at the age of 12, I am very aware of how things work and the limitations of the bicycles parts, one thing you must also consider is that a motorcycle has to have a lot heavier duty components to support it empty weight of 300-400+ lbs and the potential of weighing 500-600+ lbs with a rider or riders on it.

My bikes may weigh in at 60-70 lbs, I use wheels with large axles just like are used on the BMX bikes that you see jumping 20ft in the air and on the mountain bikes you see taking way more of a beating than 99% of any of our motorized bikes will ever take, these bike parts are a lot tougher than some give them credit for, and some are overly paranoid about all of it, that is fine with me as long as you people who think like that ride very slow, it is a well know fact that riding scared is a bad thing and makes you way more likely to have a wreck.

bike wheel axles are much stronger than you think and if the bearing are properly tensioned and greased with a high quality grease and maintained they will run 40+ MPH for probably thousands of miles without issue, I know because I have some that have and you can look at the bearings and race in wheels and they still look good as new, if the bike are as weak and as dangerous at 30+ MPH as some here say they are then why don't we see constant reports of frame breakage and all kinds of bike component failures posted on here? answer is actually real simple..... because the bikes hold up just fine in almost all cases and people enjoy even the cheap bikes and get good reliable service out of them for a long time, lots of scare-dy cats in the world who make good points but have a tendency to go overboard a little and think others should comply with their fears... well, sorry fellas that isn't me and I know I do my best to make sure my bikes are as safe and reliable as I can and I have yet to have a major component fail on one of them yet, and one of the highest mile bikes I own that has has multiple engines on it and has took a real beating since 2010 at times is a Huffy bike that uses the same frame as the Cranbrook that people love to hate... the bike cruises all day long at 32-34 MPH, it aint a fast one but is a very solid comfortable rider and I have never had a single fear about whether it will hold up to what I do with it.

I do think for most people low 30 ish MPH speeds are a safe area and people should stay within their personal limits and if a speed makes you ride scared then you better slow it down or the fear factor will become your enemy and cause you to zig when you should have zagged and you will get hurt, we dont all have the same mental limitations on these things and some of us have much better riding skills and do a better job setting up our bikes for how we use them, all of these things are factors in the whole mix concerning what is and isnt a safe speed for the motorized bicycles.

woo wee.... did I say all that...?

Map

I see posts here all the time re bike parts that failed due to vibration resulting in riders thrown to the ground and doing hospital time. Pictures of broken frames, seized motors, bearings and gears all torn to crap.

You never see any of this stuff eh?

Like I said, do whatever you want. If you have no fear of doing 50 on a bike that was built for 15 powered by a vibrating pot metal motor assembled in a shop with a dirt floor that cost $50 to make, by all means.

As I mentioned, put some flat bars on that thing and tuck in. That should get you 55 -