I found this after searching for a little while.
http://scooter.wikia.com/wiki/Evo_two_speed_transmission
http://scooter.wikia.com/wiki/Evo_two_speed_transmission
Dual range gearbox idea... II
- Thread starter GearNut
- Start date
Don't know what happened to my previous thread. I did an edit and when I tried to submit it the post got lost completely.
So..
Just needs some re-engineering to lockout the planetary section to provide 1:1. Any ideas?
If this approach has been discussed already then please don't blame me. Blame the search function. I searched for "steering quickener" and came up with nothing.
I was googling for a two speed gearbox that I can use for hi/lo range in a build. Not an automatic, centrifugal-clutch, two-speed transmission. Only a simple, robust, gearbox that would provide selectable Hi/Lo in a build like some of the 70's era trailbikes. There is nothing like this, from what I could find, in a simple gearhead or gearbox. There are a few that are cobbled together with chains and dog clutches and appear to take up lots of space and weight.
I chanced upon a google image of a "steering quickener" and was intrigued. It's a compact, very robust, lightweight, coaxial gearbox that is available in 1.5:1 and 2:1 ratios. There are a couple of other ratios but they are rarer.
Now the application of this as a dual-range gearbox would require some re-engineering. That's the fun part. I can see (see images below) where a shift fork or simple cam could be designed into this that would lock out the planetary gears and give 1:1 for high speed selection. Shifting it back to 2:1 (for instance) would make it low speed. Ideas would be appreciated. I'm going to buy one of these and work on it in the shop for a while.
The most promising thing about these gearboxes is that they are mass produced for race car applications which brings the price of a nicely engineered gearbox down from about 800-1000dollars to more like 125 dollars.
They are, obviously, designed for low-rpm high-torque. That means they might be suitable for way downstream in the transmission. Perfect for my project, maybe not so for yours.
Also, they don't appear to be designed to handle much radial loading. Again that's just fine for my project, but probably not good for the majority of applications in motorized bicycles or e-bikes.
Anyway, here are a few links to the beast in question. First one is the patent application for the original....
http://www.google.com/patents?id=4aCcAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Next is a pic some guy took of one he was about to put in a tractor....
http://i50.tinypic.com/343rogp.jpg
Finally a website for ordering one.....
http://www.scpraceparts.com/howe-racing-stealth-hd-steering-quickener.html
Obviously there would be a market for a selectable version of this. It's a very popular item among racers, especially guys refitting stock cars for racing. Being able to switch from OEM steering ratio to 2:1 with a simple lever would be desirable. I'm guessing that the corporate lawyers got in the way of that one right away. Idiotic misadjustment of a steering gearbox on a vehicle at 200+ mph is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
So.... any bright input on how to add a shift lever, sliding collar, dog clutch collar, lockout, etc, etc, to lock this into 1:1 when desired? For my particular project it would be the holy grail.
So..
Just needs some re-engineering to lockout the planetary section to provide 1:1. Any ideas?
If this approach has been discussed already then please don't blame me. Blame the search function. I searched for "steering quickener" and came up with nothing.
I was googling for a two speed gearbox that I can use for hi/lo range in a build. Not an automatic, centrifugal-clutch, two-speed transmission. Only a simple, robust, gearbox that would provide selectable Hi/Lo in a build like some of the 70's era trailbikes. There is nothing like this, from what I could find, in a simple gearhead or gearbox. There are a few that are cobbled together with chains and dog clutches and appear to take up lots of space and weight.
I chanced upon a google image of a "steering quickener" and was intrigued. It's a compact, very robust, lightweight, coaxial gearbox that is available in 1.5:1 and 2:1 ratios. There are a couple of other ratios but they are rarer.
Now the application of this as a dual-range gearbox would require some re-engineering. That's the fun part. I can see (see images below) where a shift fork or simple cam could be designed into this that would lock out the planetary gears and give 1:1 for high speed selection. Shifting it back to 2:1 (for instance) would make it low speed. Ideas would be appreciated. I'm going to buy one of these and work on it in the shop for a while.
The most promising thing about these gearboxes is that they are mass produced for race car applications which brings the price of a nicely engineered gearbox down from about 800-1000dollars to more like 125 dollars.
They are, obviously, designed for low-rpm high-torque. That means they might be suitable for way downstream in the transmission. Perfect for my project, maybe not so for yours.
Also, they don't appear to be designed to handle much radial loading. Again that's just fine for my project, but probably not good for the majority of applications in motorized bicycles or e-bikes.
Anyway, here are a few links to the beast in question. First one is the patent application for the original....
http://www.google.com/patents?id=4aCcAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Next is a pic some guy took of one he was about to put in a tractor....
http://i50.tinypic.com/343rogp.jpg
Finally a website for ordering one.....
http://www.scpraceparts.com/howe-racing-stealth-hd-steering-quickener.html
Obviously there would be a market for a selectable version of this. It's a very popular item among racers, especially guys refitting stock cars for racing. Being able to switch from OEM steering ratio to 2:1 with a simple lever would be desirable. I'm guessing that the corporate lawyers got in the way of that one right away. Idiotic misadjustment of a steering gearbox on a vehicle at 200+ mph is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
So.... any bright input on how to add a shift lever, sliding collar, dog clutch collar, lockout, etc, etc, to lock this into 1:1 when desired? For my particular project it would be the holy grail.
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No it was not lost, it was moved to the Hubs,gearbox and sprocket forum from the general discussion forum.
Now we have two threads that are duplicates and one has to be removed. I notice the threads are a little different, Which one do you want to keep?
Re: dual range gearbox idea
I'm a bit confused here since the forum is messing with me. I tried to edit the original post and kept getting a page indicating that the original post was lost. So I reposted the thread. Sorry to all, and the mods, for the duplication. If you delete one, please delete this one since I reedited and resubmitted the original.
In any case, the transmission you link to above is the type that I described as inappropriate to my (and others perhaps) needs. It's bulky, automatic, open framed (no constant lube), etc. Different animal than I'm interested in. Automatic is nice... of course... but eliminating that requirement in a build allows for huge savings in complexity and mass if you can live without it.
Looking for a gearhead.... along these lines......
... ideally in a 2:1 ratio, that is selectable from 1:1 back to 2:1. Or any other appropriate ratio selection that would enable Hi/lo in a small, robust, co-axial gearbox. Even a parallel shaft (not necessarily co-axial, but close enough for compact motorized bike applications) would be ok.
I'm a bit confused here since the forum is messing with me. I tried to edit the original post and kept getting a page indicating that the original post was lost. So I reposted the thread. Sorry to all, and the mods, for the duplication. If you delete one, please delete this one since I reedited and resubmitted the original.
In any case, the transmission you link to above is the type that I described as inappropriate to my (and others perhaps) needs. It's bulky, automatic, open framed (no constant lube), etc. Different animal than I'm interested in. Automatic is nice... of course... but eliminating that requirement in a build allows for huge savings in complexity and mass if you can live without it.
Looking for a gearhead.... along these lines......
... ideally in a 2:1 ratio, that is selectable from 1:1 back to 2:1. Or any other appropriate ratio selection that would enable Hi/lo in a small, robust, co-axial gearbox. Even a parallel shaft (not necessarily co-axial, but close enough for compact motorized bike applications) would be ok.
I'd like to keep this one. And the response I gave in the other.
If it was moved, why was I not automatically redirected to it when I attemped to edit it? When I submitted the edit I was only shown a blank page with no heads up as to what was happening. The original thread said nothing about it being moved.
Sorry for the confusion. Is the forum just a little behind my timing? Or perhaps its because I'm a new member and the delay while the mod approves the post got in the way?
Sorry for the mess up
If it was moved, why was I not automatically redirected to it when I attemped to edit it? When I submitted the edit I was only shown a blank page with no heads up as to what was happening. The original thread said nothing about it being moved.
Sorry for the confusion. Is the forum just a little behind my timing? Or perhaps its because I'm a new member and the delay while the mod approves the post got in the way?
Sorry for the mess up
Ok, here's the input from the other thread. Mod, please delete the other one.
Looking for a gearhead.... along these lines......
... ideally in a 2:1 ratio, that is selectable from 1:1 back to 2:1. Or any other appropriate ratio selection that would enable Hi/lo in a small, robust, co-axial gearbox. Even a parallel shaft (not necessarily co-axial, but close enough for compact motorized bike applications) would be ok.
In any case, the transmission you link to above is the type that I described as inappropriate to my (and others perhaps) needs. It's bulky, automatic, open framed (no constant lube), etc. Different animal than I'm interested in. Automatic is nice... of course... but eliminating that requirement in a build allows for huge savings in complexity and mass if you can live without it.
Looking for a gearhead.... along these lines......
... ideally in a 2:1 ratio, that is selectable from 1:1 back to 2:1. Or any other appropriate ratio selection that would enable Hi/lo in a small, robust, co-axial gearbox. Even a parallel shaft (not necessarily co-axial, but close enough for compact motorized bike applications) would be ok.
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Re: dual range gearbox idea
Well....
There is this one too: 2 Speed dog clutch transmission.
It is pretty darned small.
Well....
There is this one too: 2 Speed dog clutch transmission.
It is pretty darned small.
I think I was moving it at the same time you were editing it and the forum got confused. I will get it worked out and fixed..Thanks
Okay, I am still unclear what happened I think it was one of things we just call a glitch in the system.
How Gearnut post got moved as the OP of the thread I have no clue. But now I cannot remove it or move it without this thread disappearing.
Very strange this has never happened before?
How Gearnut post got moved as the OP of the thread I have no clue. But now I cannot remove it or move it without this thread disappearing.
Very strange this has never happened before?
Please accept my apologies honore for this confusion, this has never happened.
We can either keep this thread as is, or you may start a new one and we can delete this one. Thats the best I can do.
We can either keep this thread as is, or you may start a new one and we can delete this one. Thats the best I can do.
This thread is quite fine as it is at this point. Thanks for the help. I think what happened is that it's my first post and the delay for mod approval added to a bit of confusion. I should have been more patient. Sorry.
Here's a idea of how compact these are..
The one I imaged previously is only slightly larger. Very robust input and output shafts. The one imaged above is of the type described in that patent .pdf as "previous art". It utilizes a spur gear input running inside of an internally toothed ring output. Cool way to make a gear reduction ultra compact. Despite the photo appearing otherwise, it's not truly coaxial. The slightly larger unit uses the two planetary gears and is truly coaxial... which lends itself to the possibility of locking out the planetary stage for 1:1 "high" gearing.
I'm not an engineer so these might be wildly inappropriate for anthing exceeding a few RPM (what would be expected in automobile steering). Only experimentation would tell. But they're so cheap and appear to be so well built that it might be an interesting gearbox to mess around with.
Here's a idea of how compact these are..
The one I imaged previously is only slightly larger. Very robust input and output shafts. The one imaged above is of the type described in that patent .pdf as "previous art". It utilizes a spur gear input running inside of an internally toothed ring output. Cool way to make a gear reduction ultra compact. Despite the photo appearing otherwise, it's not truly coaxial. The slightly larger unit uses the two planetary gears and is truly coaxial... which lends itself to the possibility of locking out the planetary stage for 1:1 "high" gearing.
I'm not an engineer so these might be wildly inappropriate for anthing exceeding a few RPM (what would be expected in automobile steering). Only experimentation would tell. But they're so cheap and appear to be so well built that it might be an interesting gearbox to mess around with.
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To explain my interest in this specifically..
..I'd like to find a very compact coaxial gearbox like this to incorporate into the swingarm/driveshaft of a QT50 like so...
(google sketchup drawn to scale with Yam QT50 motor/shaft/rearhub, specialized mountainbike frame, 24 inch bicycle downhill rims).
Actually I'd be using these rims/tires as suggested in another thread here (at 42.2mm it's wider than any downhill rim, not as wide as the "large marges")....
http://www.unicycle.com/nimbus-24-inch-muni-rim.html/
... and a 24x3.00 "cruiser" tire such as this...
http://www.bikeworldusa.us/Nirve-FatAss-Cruiser-Bicycle-Tire-Black/M/B000QFRSP4.htm
http://store.electrabike.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/common/prodesc/images/688336_LG.jpg
With the OEM gearing on 14 inch moped wheels the QT is good for about 0-30. With the driveshaft lengthened to accomodate a 24 inch bicycle rim/tire (roughly equal to a 17inch moped rim/tire) it should be good for 35 to 40 with lightened frame, rims, and tires. A gearbox on the driveshaft, selectable from 1:1 to 1:2 would provide a perfect low range for (very) light exploring off-road.
..I'd like to find a very compact coaxial gearbox like this to incorporate into the swingarm/driveshaft of a QT50 like so...
(google sketchup drawn to scale with Yam QT50 motor/shaft/rearhub, specialized mountainbike frame, 24 inch bicycle downhill rims).
Actually I'd be using these rims/tires as suggested in another thread here (at 42.2mm it's wider than any downhill rim, not as wide as the "large marges")....
http://www.unicycle.com/nimbus-24-inch-muni-rim.html/
... and a 24x3.00 "cruiser" tire such as this...
http://www.bikeworldusa.us/Nirve-FatAss-Cruiser-Bicycle-Tire-Black/M/B000QFRSP4.htm
http://store.electrabike.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/common/prodesc/images/688336_LG.jpg
With the OEM gearing on 14 inch moped wheels the QT is good for about 0-30. With the driveshaft lengthened to accomodate a 24 inch bicycle rim/tire (roughly equal to a 17inch moped rim/tire) it should be good for 35 to 40 with lightened frame, rims, and tires. A gearbox on the driveshaft, selectable from 1:1 to 1:2 would provide a perfect low range for (very) light exploring off-road.
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I think this is the best and most economical tranny to use.
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=5522
i just made a new personal high with it.
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=5522
i just made a new personal high with it.
That is AWESOME bowljoman! Where can I get one?! I'm 5'4" tall and that would be perfect for me.
kick bikes are here, http://kickbikeamerica.com/ but this motorized version, I designed and built. Everything is off-the-shelf parts except the rear swing-arm, which my buddy fabbed up. Total cost for all new parts was like 1050$ or so. I gave my buddy lots of money for his part. He's a certified welder and an old friend.
